Silmarien
Existentialist
- Feb 24, 2017
- 4,337
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- Anglican
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- Single
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- US-Democrat
I see where you're going with this concerning attitudes, and to an extent I think you're right. To resist opposing views as though they threaten your very flesh and bone is an innate human tendency, so it's unsurprising to see it manifesting on both sides here through smugness and superiority complexes. I disagree that atheists don't have any moral reason to rise above this kind of mentality and I disagree that I've merely declared my position reasonable without really being open to other options.
You kind of did, though. We were talking about the scenario in which theism is true and salvation requires belief, and you seem to be saying that if this is the case, then God apparently doesn't value reasonability. If you're starting from the assumption that you did things correctly and that God set you up to fail, instead of accepting that maybe you were the one who went wrong somewhere, that is where theological rebellion comes into the picture.
There's this modern focus on autonomy, on not allowing anyone to have authority over us--I think it's interesting, since I've spoken with anti-theists here who are so deeply into that sort of rebellion that they don't seem capable of even wrapping their heads around hypotheticals. They'll mock the idea that someone can choose hell, but the almost fanatical resistance is self-evident.
It's one of the things that challenge my sympathies towards universalism, since if hell is self-worship, some people may well eternally choose it. (Granted, this is a huge problem within Christianity too--the sort of hatred and self-aggrandization I see coming out of certain sections of it are staggering.)
They're right, as long as they're imbuing God with unfalsifiable characteristics. When that's the case, asking me to believe is asking me to abandon a logic and evidence-based epistemology in favor of an epistemology that isn't, which - as far as I can tell - far more easily leads to nonsensical, false beliefs than the former.
This obsession with falsification is weird to me. It doesn't make much sense outside of the laboratory, so I don't know why people think it's rational to apply it liberally to literally every question out there. The most important assumption of all, the existence of other minds, is unfalsifiable, but most people don't toss it out of their epistemology. We already have to abandon a purely empirical epistemology even to function in society, so we might as well accept that falsification is not the answer to life, the universe, and everything.
As for abandoning a logical epistemology, nobody's asking that. You're welcome to dig deeper into the intellectual tradition, if you want. It's pretty strongly based in logical and rational concerns.
I will agree that this line of reasoning can be considered a form of rebellion, but it's not against God directly, or even the concept of a god. It's a rebellion against cultural norms that exempt certain convictions from intellectual critique, allowing public policy to be dictated by people's beliefs that are ultimately founded on neither logic nor evidence. I find this entirely too dangerous and historically damaging to go along with it.
We're living in an era where people are submitting liberal democracy to intellectual critique, questioning the moral foundations of equality, and electing populist fascist politicians into power across the world. I would be careful stressing the rebellion against culture convictions--it can very easily lead to the Nietzschean rejection of equality as desirable, and without that, good luck getting to the sort of public policy you want on logic and evidence alone. (You can get to eugenics easily enough, though, so score one for science.)
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