ADL Report on extremist violence

[JosephZ]

Yes, it does.

No, body counts from past attacks don't increase or decrease the risk of an individual becoming a victim of a terrorist attack at any certain time or place in the future. The number of extremists and the number of incidents is the best way to access risk.

Let's say, hypothetically, that radical muslims got ahold of a small nuke and detonated it in a city...killing 3 million initially and 10 million on the fallout.

That is quite a hypothetical example right there. Lol... Even if terrorist got a hold of the largest nuclear bomb in the US arsenal and detonated in the heart of New York City, it wouldn't kill nearly that many people. If terrorists were to ever pull off an attack with a nuclear weapon in a major US city, the number killed would most likely be below 10,000. Probably much lower than that especially if it's a city outside of the northeast corridor where the population per square mile in most cities is not as dense.

And let's not forget that right-wing extremist have shown a desire and are just as capable as Islamic extremists to carry out a mass casualty attack using a nuclear, biological, or chemical weapon.

A group pulling a million ineffectual attacks that kill 1000 people is far less dangerous than a group that pulls one effective attack and kills a million.

You're looking at this the wrong way. A group carrying out a million attacks is a far greater threat than one that commits a single attack regardless of the number of casualties.

A single attack would affect one geographic location. A million attacks would be spread out over a much larger area geographically. In fact, that could be broken down to 20,000 attacks in each of the 50 states.

Of course it does. Our concern isn't "will I bump into one of these people on the street?"

Unless you were sitting in a pew at First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas on November 5, 2017, the extremist that opened fire on the congregation that day was not a threat to you. The extremist that carried out the attack is the threat, not the size of the attack. It wouldn't have mattered if he killed one person that day or one hundred.

Our concern is "will these people kill me?"

Exactly, and another thing to consider is that one of the things that came about as a result of the 9/11 attacks is better intelligence gathering and counter terrorism measures worldwide. Since 9/11, only two attacks in Europe have caused more than 100 deaths and the deadliest attack in the US since then resulted in 50 deaths. The odds of anything on the order of 9/11 by any extremist group on US soil in the future are extremely low. What we will see is the continuation of small scale attacks with extremists using easy to acquire weapons like firearms, knives, vehicles, and explosives.

There hasn't been an attack by an Islamic extremist in the US since December 2017 which resulted in no deaths, while there have been multiple attacks and at least 30 deaths caused by right-wing extremists in the past year.

being a misogynist or racist isn't something exclusive to being "right wing" and as far as I can tell, being an "incel" just means you're upset about not getting any sex. It's not an ideology....certainly not a right wing ideology.

The reason Incels are categorized as right-wing extremists is because misogyny has it's roots in religious fundamentalism and its strict hierarchical view of gender and male supremacy. Homophobia and white supremacy are also closely connected to many Incel groups. The Incel movement is a lot more complex than a group of people upset because they aren't having sex.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Right Wing Extremist Attacks (32)

10/27/2018: White supremacist Robert Bowers murdered 11 people and injured seven more, including four police officers, during services at the Tree of Life Synagogue in Pittsburgh, Pa. Bowers was a virulent anti-Semite who, among other things, blamed Jews for orchestrating the immigration of non-whites into the United States.

11 killed, 7 injured.

1/02/2018: Scott Paul Beierle opened fire at a yoga studio in Tallahassee, Florida killing two people and wounding four others by gun-fire and a fifth by pistol-whipping before killing himself. Beierle had posted videos to social media containing racist and misogynistic commentary, expressing hostility towards women who engaged in interracial relationships and referring admiringly to misogynistic killer Elliott Rodger.

Being a racist or misogynist isn't exclusive to the right. I'm not counting these.

02/14/2018. Nikolas Cruz launched a deadly shooting spree at his former high school in Parkland, Florida. Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, killing 17 people and wounding 17 more. According to CNN, Cruz, 19, belonged to a racist Instagram group and hated blacks and Jews, even claiming Jews wanted to destroy the world. Cruz also allegedly referred to women who engaged in interracial relationships as “traitors.”

Racist or not....he appears to have been motivated by some perception of mistreatment.

Parkland’s Nikolas Cruz made chilling videos before shooting: ‘You’re all going to die’

"Cruz suggested that he was planning the attacks in retaliation for being treated badly, although it is unclear by who.

“I’ve had enough being told what to do and when to do . . . Telling me I’m an idiot," he said. “In real life, you’re all stupid and brainwashed.”

So no....not counting.

12/07/2017: An assailant, identified as William Atchison, opened fire on students at Aztec High School in Aztec, New Mexico, United States. The assailant shot and killed two students and fired multiple shots at a locked classroom before shooting and killing himself. Statements Atchinson made in his suicide note and posted online reflect a fixation on mass shootings, as well as a misogynist and white supremacist narrative referenced in message forums where participants self-identify as "involuntarily celibate" (incel)."

I almost didn't count this one either....since he listed motives that had nothing to do with right wing extremism. He reportedly had a swastika tattoo though, so I'm giving you the benefit of doubt.

2 killed.

10/08/2017: Around 11:00 p.m.m two assailants shouting racial slurs and white supremacist statements attacked a black man in Spokane, Washington, United States. The assailants attacked Norris Cooley, pointed a handgun at him, and fired at least six shots into Cooley's occupied home. The two unaffiliated individuals, identified as Jason Edward Cooper and Donald Lucas Prichard, white extremists, claimed responsibility for the incident and stated racial slurs during the attack.

No kills, no injuries? Not counted.

08/12/2017: An assailant drove his vehicle into a crowd of counter-protesters at the intersection of 4th Street and Water Street in Charlottesville, Virginia, United States. One person, identified as Heather D. Heyer, was killed and 19 people were injured in the assault. No group claimed responsibility for the incident; however, police arrested James Alex Fields Jr., a neo-Nazi extremist, in connection with the attack.

1 killed, 19 injured.

05/26/2017: An assailant armed with a knife shouted racial and religious slurs at two passengers on a MAX light rail train in Portland, Oregon, United States. The assailant then stabbed three passengers who attempted to intervene. Rick John Best and Taliesin Myrddin Namkai-Meche were killed and Micah David-Cole Fletcher was injured in the attack. Jeremy Joseph Christian, an anti-Muslim extremist, claimed responsibility for the incident and stated that "Muslims should die" during the attack."

2 killed, 1 injured.

04/28/2017: An assailant equipped with a machete entered a cafe at Transylvania University in Lexington, Kentucky, United States. The assailant asked customers about their political affiliation and stabbed civilians who identified as Democrats, injuring two people. The assailant also suffered self-inflicted injuries before being arrested by police. Mitchell Adkins, a right-wing extremist, claimed responsibility for the incident and had previously written an online post complaining of discrimination against conservatives on college campuses.

2 injured....this is a sad one. Apparently, he lashed out after being bullied and beaten up by intolerant leftists at his school.


Man arrested in Transy machete attack wrote that he was bullied for being Republican

03/20/2017: An assailant stabbed Timothy Caughman with a sword in Chelsea neighborhood, New York City, United States. Caughman, an African-American civilian, was killed in the attack. James Harris Jackson, a white extremist, claimed responsibility for the incident and stated that he targeted Caughman in order to persuade white women against interracial relationships.

1 killed.

02/22/2017: An assailant opened fire on two Indian civilians at a bar in Olathe, Kansas, United States. Srinivas Kuchibhotla was killed and Alok Madasani was injured in the attack. In addition, Ian Grillot, a United States citizen, was shot and injured when he tried to intervene. Adam W. Purinton, a white extremist, claimed responsibility for the incident and stated that he had killed "two Middle Eastern persons." Moreover, prior to the attack Purinton screamed "get out of my country" at the victims."

1 killed, 2 injured.

02/28/2016: Three assailants armed with knives attacked a group of Hispanic teenagers playing soccer at Stephen Sorensen Park in Lake Los Angeles, California, United States. At least two people suffered minor injuries in the assault. The three assailants, identified as Ian Justine Plankey, Richard Lawrence Daulton, and Kevin Matthew Stewart, were arrested following the incident. During the attack, they shouted white supremacist statements and racial slurs, including "Heil Hitler, AV Skins."

After reading about this....it's hard to find any connections to any right wing ideology. What they "yelled" varied depending upon the sources....and for a three year old story, I couldn't find any follow up.

If you can get more info I'll count it....right now, it's just a hate crime at the most.

12/05/2015: An assailant assaulted a Muslim store clerk at Fatima Food Mart in Queens, New York City, United States. The clerk was injured in the attack. No group claimed responsibility; however, an assailant, identified as Piro Kolvani, said "I kill Muslims" during the attack and was later arrested."

Again...not seeing any affiliation to right wing extremism. Hate crime? Sure.

11/27/2015: An assailant opened fire on a Planned Parenthood clinic and held an unknown number of people hostage for five hours in Colorado Springs, Colorado, United States. At least three people were killed and nine other people were wounded in the assault. An individual, identified as Robert Lewis Dear, claimed responsibility for the incident and stated that he was a "warrior for the babies."

.

3 killed 9 injured.

11/23/2015: Assailants opened fire on a Black Lives Matter rally in Minneapolis, Minnesota, United States. Five people were injured in the attack. No group claimed responsibility for the incident; however, sources attributed the attack to Sovereign Citizen and white supremacists.

A guy was arrested for this and charged...and while he does appear to be racist, they don't seem to have charged him with a hate crime. Again, being racist doesn't make one right wing.

11/06/2015: An assailant attacked a Sikh bus driver in Inglewood, California, United States. The driver, identified as Balwinder Jit Singh, was injured in the attack. An individual identified as K.C. Tard Jr. claimed responsibility for the incident and called Singh a "terrorist" and a "suicide bomber."

1 injured

10/01/2015: An assailant, identified as Christopher Harper-Mercer, entered a classroom at Umpqua Community College and held an unknown number of students and staff hostage in Roseburg, Oregon, United States. Armed with six firearms, the assailant shot and killed nine people and injured at least seven others. He exchanged fire with responding police officers before shooting and killing himself. Statements Harper-Mercer made in his manifesto and posted online reflect a fixation on mass shootings, as well as a misogynist and white supremacist narrative seen in message forums where participants self-identify as "involuntarily celibate" (incel)."

Mental illness, and doesn't appear to be motivated by any right wing ideology.

07/23/2015: An assailant opened fire on the audience before killing himself at a screening of the movie Trainwreck in Lafayette, Louisiana, United States. At least three people, including the assailant, were killed and nine other people were injured in the assault. An individual, identified as John Russell Houser, claimed responsibility for the incident and stated that he carried out the attack with the intention that it would harm the United States (US) economy.

Diagnosed bipolar, involuntarily committed to a mental hospital. Doesn't count.

09/12/2014: An assailant opened fire at state troopers at the barracks in Blooming Grove, Pennsylvania, United States. One trooper was killed and another was wounded in the attack. A lone individual, Eric Frein, claimed responsibility for the incident. In a letter he wrote to his parents, Frein indicated that he was looking to spark a revolution against the government.

I didn't see anything to indicate he was right wing. He expressed a deep hatred towards cops....which is more left wing these days.

06/08/2014: Two assailants ambushed two police officers eating at a restaurant and attacked a nearby Walmart in Las Vegas, Nevada, United States. At least five people, including two officers, a bystander, and two assailants, were killed in the attack. Jerad and Amanda Miller claimed responsibility for the incident and proclaimed that the shooting had provoked a revolution against authority figures. On social media, the assailants also decried the federal government, taxes, and anti-gun laws.

5 killed.

06/06/2014: An assailant, identified as Dennis Marx, opened fire on the Forsyth County Courthouse in Cumming, Georgia, United States. In addition to handguns and an AR-15 rifle, Marx was armed with tire spikes, smoke bombs, homemade explosives, and grenades. Sheriff's Deputy Daniel Rush was injured in the attack and Marx was shot and killed by law enforcement officers before he was able to enter the courthouse. Marx self-identified as belonging to the Sovereign Citizen movement.

1 injured.

05/23/2014: An assailant, identified as Elliot Rodger, drove several blocks to various locations near the University of California, Santa Barbara, campus, shooting at and running into victims with his car in Isla Vista, California, United States. At least three people were killed and 13 other people were injured in the assault. The attack ended when he shot and killed himself. This was one of two coordinated incidents carried out by the same assailant in Isla Vista on the same day. Rodger posted videos on the internet and wrote a lengthy manifesto detailing his plans and motivations for the attack. His ideology reflected a misogynist and white supremacist narrative seen in online message forums where participants self-identify as "involuntarily celibate" (incel)."

No right wing ideology. Sorry. I actually read his entire manifesto....it was interesting, and he was clearly mentally ill....but he killed women he felt rejected by, not an ideology.

04/13/2014: An assailant opened fire on civilians outside a Jewish retirement home in Overland Park, Kansas, United States. At least one person was killed in the assault. This was one of two attacks carried out by the same assailant within a few minutes. Frazier Glenn Cross claimed responsibility for the incidents and stated that he intended to target members of the Jewish community.


04/13/2014: An assailant opened fire on civilians outside a Jewish community center in Overland Park, Kansas, United States. At least two people were killed in the assault. This was one of two attacks carried out by the same assailant within a few minutes. Frazier Glenn Cross claimed responsibility for the incidents and stated that he intended to target members of the Jewish community.

3 (?) Killed

11/01/2013: An assailant opened fire on Transportation Security Administration (TSA) agents inside Terminal 3 at Los Angeles International Airport (LAX) in Los Angeles, California, United States. At least one agent was killed and four others, including agents and civilians, were wounded in the assault. TSA agents returned fire and injured the assailant. Paul Ciancia claimed responsibility for the incident, stating, in a note found in his apartment, that he wanted to kill and to instill fear in TSA officers.

1 Killed, 4 injured.

08/05/2012: Wade Michael Page attacked a Sikh temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin, United States. At least six people were killed and four others wounded before Page was shot by a responding police officer and subsequently died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. No group claimed responsibility for the incident; however, the assailant was a member of a white supremacist organization.

6 killed 4 injured

06/18/2012: An assailant attempted to bomb a natural gas pipeline in Plano, Texas, United States. The assailant was critically injured when the explosive device detonated prematurely. Additionally, the pipeline was also damaged in the blast. No group claimed responsibility; however, sources note that Anson Chi identified as part of the anti-government Sovereign Citizen movement.

Failed attempt.

01/11/2012: Assailants threw incendiary devices at Temple Beth El on Montross Avenue in Rutherford, New Jersey, United States. At least one person was injured in the attack. No group claimed responsibility; however, Anthony M. Graziano and Aakash Dalal were arrested and charged in connection with the incident.

1 injured.

As can be seen by the lists above, both right wing and Islamic extremists are equally as dangerous and an equal amount of concern should be given to both.

Now it's your turn.

36 killed...and that's pretty generous. I'm not going to bother counting the injured. Remember when I said it wouldn't even add up to half of those killed by Muslim radicals?

What you should ask is why the mentally ill are being used to pad these stats? Why are we counting men who visited a white supremacist website once? Why are we ignoring the reasons attackers give and instead proscribe reasons completely unrelated?

 

[JosephZ]

36 killed...and that's pretty generous. I'm not going to bother counting the injured. Remember when I said it wouldn't even add up to half of those killed by Muslim radicals?

What you should ask is why the mentally ill are being used to pad these stats? Why are we counting men who visited a white supremacist website once? Why are we ignoring the reasons attackers give and instead proscribe reasons completely unrelated?

Here are some widely accepted definitions of right wing extremism/terrorism.

Right-wing terrorism is terrorism motivated by a variety of far right ideologies and beliefs, including anti-communism, neo-fascism, neo-Nazism, racism, xenophobia and opposition to immigration. This type of terrorism has been sporadic, with little or no international cooperation. -- Aubrey, Stefan M. The New Dimension of International Terrorism.

Right-wing extremism is violence in support of the belief that personal and/or national way of life is under attack and is either already lost or that the threat is imminent. Characterized by anti-globalism, racial or ethnic supremacy or nationalism, suspicion of centralized federal authority, reverence for individual liberty, and/or belief in conspiracy theories that involve grave threat to national sovereignty and/or personal liberty. -- National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism/United States Department of Homeland Security

Right-wing extremism (RWE) is traditionally driven by hatred and fear, and includes a range of individuals, groups, often in online communities, that back a wide range of issues and grievances, including, but not limited to: anti-government and anti-law enforcement sentiment, advocacy of white nationalism and racial separation, anti-Semitism and Islamophobia, anti-immigration, male supremacy (misogyny) and homophobia. -- Canadian Government

You excluded an extremist looking to spark a revolution against the government, racists, misogynist, and Incels who by definition belong on the list I provided. While some on the list may have suffered from mental illness to varying degrees, if you are going to exclude them, you would also have to exclude many of the Islamic extremists as well.

 

[Ana the Ist]

No, body counts from past attacks don't increase or decrease the risk of an individual becoming a victim of a terrorist attack at any certain time or place in the future. The number of extremists and the number of incidents is the best way to access risk.

No...it's not.

If we were trying to find out your chances of being killed or injured by a drunk driver....we would have to count up all the deaths and injuries from drunk driving to figure out your chances on any given year.

If we only counted the number drunk driving accidents....regardless of whether or not anyone died....we could figure out your chances of being in an accident, but it wouldn't tell you how dangerous they are.

You want to count up incidents....but an incident is only dangerous if someone is hurt or killed. That's the whole reason why we limited the discussion to successful attacks in the first place.

That is quite a hypothetical example right there.

But it does an excellent job of showing how silly your argument is. The group that stabbed 1500 people over 1000 incidents is nowhere near as dangerous as the group that killed millions in one attack.

To argue otherwise is silly.

You're looking at this the wrong way. A group carrying out a million attacks is a far greater threat than one that commits a single attack regardless of the number of casualties.

Why? Quit making empty claims and explain why the group that kills less people is more dangerous lol.

A single attack would affect one geographic location. A million attacks would be spread out over a much larger area geographically. In fact, that could be broken down to 20,000 attacks in each of the 50 states.

So what? They aren't attacking the ground....they're attacking people.

The extremist that carried out the attack is the threat, not the size of the attack.

Let's pretend this is true for a moment...

What is it about the extremist that makes him a threat? Is an extremist with a gun more of a threat than one with a knife? How about an assault rifle? How about a large bomb?

The threat of the extremist is greater based on how many people he can kill....on how effective he is at killing. There's only one way to measure that....and it's measured in dead bodies.

Exactly, and another thing to consider is that one of the things that came about as a result of the 9/11 attacks is better intelligence gathering and counter terrorism measures worldwide. Since 9/11, only two attacks in Europe have caused more than 100 deaths and the deadliest attack in the US since then resulted in 50 deaths. The odds of anything on the order of 9/11 by any extremist group on US soil in the future are extremely low.

Only if we remain vigilant against those groups which pose a threat.

There hasn't been an attack by an Islamic extremist in the US since December 2017 which resulted in no deaths, while there have been multiple attacks and at least 30 deaths caused by right-wing extremists in the past year.

One year is hardly a pattern.

The reason Incels are categorized as right-wing extremists is because misogyny has it's roots in religious fundamentalism and its strict hierarchical view of gender and male supremacy.

Misogyny has roots in the liberal establishment of Hollywood....

Misogyny has roots in rap music...

The fact is that being an incel doesn't automatically make one a misogynist and being a misogynist doesn't automatically make one a right wing extremist.

Homophobia and white supremacy are also closely connected to many Incel groups. The Incel movement is a lot more complex than a group of people upset because they aren't having sex.

Actually that's all it is....but like most large groups that only share one common feature, there's a wide range of beliefs.

The bottom line is you don't get to shout "incel"! and automatically declare someone a right wing extremist, or misogynist, or racist, or homophobe, or whatever.

You actually have to prove what you're claiming.

 

[JosephZ]

So what? They aren't attacking the ground....they're attacking people.

I hope this wasn't meant to be taken seriously.

What is it about the extremist that makes him a threat? Is an extremist with a gun more of a threat than one with a knife? How about an assault rifle? How about a large bomb?

The threat of the extremist is greater based on how many people he can kill....on how effective he is at killing. There's only one way to measure that....and it's measured in dead bodies.

Both right-wing and Islamic extremists are equally capable of carrying out mass casualty attacks. Just because one group carried out a single event that resulted in an unprecedented number of deaths, doesn't make the other group any less of a threat.

Only if we remain vigilant against those groups which pose a threat.

We will.

Misogyny has roots in the liberal establishment of Hollywood....

Misogyny has roots in rap music...

Before either of those, it could be found in fundamentalist Christianity.

The fact is that being an incel doesn't automatically make one a misogynist and being a misogynist doesn't automatically make one a right wing extremist.

This may be true, but the ones on the list that I created do meet the criteria to be labeled right-wing extremists and this was determined by experts who have far more experience in the field of violent extremism than either one of us.

Actually that's all it is....but like most large groups that only share one common feature, there's a wide range of beliefs.

Have you ever spent any time reading posts on an Incel forum?

But it does an excellent job of showing how silly your argument is. The group that stabbed 1500 people over 1000 incidents is nowhere near as dangerous as the group that killed millions in one attack.

To argue otherwise is silly.

Which to you feel there are more of in the US, right-wing extremists or Islamic extremists?

 

[KarateCowboy]

Sovereign citizens tend to consider themselves libertarian from what I remember...the only solid connection to right wing ideology is they're both small government lol.

The incel thing is pretty stupid though. It's not an ideology....it's more of a self help group lol. Seriously though, I don't see how they make that connection.

I dunno. Maybe the ADL is the SPLC?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Here are some widely accepted definitions of right wing extremism/terrorism.

Right-wing terrorism is terrorism motivated by a variety of far right ideologies and beliefs, including anti-communism, neo-fascism, neo-Nazism, racism, xenophobia and opposition to immigration. This type of terrorism has been sporadic, with little or no international cooperation. -- Aubrey, Stefan M. The New Dimension of International Terrorism.

Right-wing extremism is violence in support of the belief that personal and/or national way of life is under attack and is either already lost or that the threat is imminent. Characterized by anti-globalism, racial or ethnic supremacy or nationalism, suspicion of centralized federal authority, reverence for individual liberty, and/or belief in conspiracy theories that involve grave threat to national sovereignty and/or personal liberty. -- National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism/United States Department of Homeland Security

Right-wing extremism (RWE) is traditionally driven by hatred and fear, and includes a range of individuals, groups, often in online communities, that back a wide range of issues and grievances, including, but not limited to: anti-government and anti-law enforcement sentiment, advocacy of white nationalism and racial separation, anti-Semitism and Islamophobia, anti-immigration, male supremacy (misogyny) and homophobia. -- Canadian Government

You excluded an extremist looking to spark a revolution against the government, racists, misogynist, and Incels who by definition belong on the list I provided. While some on the list may have suffered from mental illness to varying degrees, if you are going to exclude them, you would also have to exclude many of the Islamic extremists as well.

You like those definitions? You comfortable with them?

 

[JosephZ]

You like those definitions? You comfortable with them?

Yes.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I hope this wasn't meant to be taken seriously.

That's how I felt about your geography argument.

Both right-wing and Islamic extremists are equally capable of carrying out mass casualty attacks. Just because one group carried out a single event that resulted in an unprecedented number of deaths, doesn't make the other group any less of a threat.

Sure it does. If you look into the preparation, coordination, funding, etc....required to pull off 9/11, it should be apparent that there's no right wing groups with those capabilities.

Before either of those, it could be found in fundamentalist Christianity.

You're missing the point.

This may be true, but the ones on the list that I created do meet the criteria to be labeled right-wing extremists

No....they don't.

and this was determined by experts who have far more experience in the field of violent extremism than either one of us.

What expert?

Have you ever spent any time reading posts on an Incel forum?

Yes.

Which to you feel there are more of in the US, right-wing extremists or Islamic extremists?

That doesn't matter.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Yes.

Ok, post #102.....the 4th incident listed I was generous enough to give you, but now, I'm not counting it because it doesn't meet your definitions.

William Atchison actually left his motive written on a thumb drive. He stated....

"Work sucks, school sucks, life sucks. I just want out of this (expletive),” he wrote"

New Mexico school shooter left note plotting attack, suicide

Now....explain how this motive either fits....

"Right-wing terrorism is terrorism motivated by a variety of far right ideologies and beliefs, including anti-communism, neo-fascism, neo-Nazism, racism, xenophobia and opposition to immigration."

Or fits...

"Right-wing extremism (RWE) is traditionally driven by hatred and fear, and includes a range of individuals, groups, often in online communities, that back a wide range of issues and grievances, including, but not limited to: anti-government and anti-law enforcement sentiment, advocacy of white nationalism and racial separation, anti-Semitism and Islamophobia, anti-immigration, male supremacy (misogyny) and homophobia."

Your turn.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Yes.

Also, why aren't we using the ADL's own definition of right wing extremism? Because it doesn't include incels??? Is that why you dug up Canada's?

 

[JosephZ]

If you look into the preparation, coordination, funding, etc....required to pull off 9/11, it should be apparent that there's no right wing groups with those capabilities.

It cost less than $500,000 to pull off 9/11 and 19 perpetrators. A chemical, biological, or dirty bomb capable of killing thousands of people could be done for a fraction of the amount that was spent on the 9/11 attacks and would require fewer people. A determined individual could do it.

No....they don't.

Experts in the field of violent extremism disagree.

What expert?

Those associated with the National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism and members of US Homeland Security who specialize in counter terrorism who use their data in their reports.

Yes.

If you spent any time at all reading what those who identify as Incel post online, you would know that it's not just a group of people upset because they aren't having sex.

That doesn't matter.

It matters because the risk is higher from a group of 50,000 individuals who are intent to harm others, and another group that only has 20,000.

 

[JosephZ]

Ok, post #102.....the 4th incident listed I was generous enough to give you, but now, I'm not counting it because it doesn't meet your definitions.

William Atchison actually left his motive written on a thumb drive. He stated....

"Work sucks, school sucks, life sucks. I just want out of this (expletive),” he wrote"

Your turn.

Do you think that one sentence is enough to determine his motive or ideology?

Here is more from William Atchison:

“How am I supposed to function in this world? Wherever I go, I see degeneracy. Pointless materialism, hedonism, sexual decay, dirty ******* who do nothing but slowly break down this society etc. it’s ******* everywhere. No way to escape it, 99% of people are part of it and whatever I do I am confronted with the death of the West. Go to the store and buy groceries in peace? Nope, here’s a group of LGBT liberal filth in line with you. And there’s a ****** family with 10 kids over there. And a Finn too, but he’s overweight as **** and he’s buying alcohol and **** junk food. ******* fantastic."

By his own words he fits the definition of a right-wing extremist to a T.

 

[JosephZ]

Also, why aren't we using the ADL's own definition of right wing extremism? Because it doesn't include incels??? Is that why you dug up Canada's?

I included definitions I'm familiar with based on the training and courses I have taken on this subject over the years. To be honest I'm not all that familiar with the ADL's specific definition of right-wing extremism, but based on what is written in the full report it would no doubt be in line with those I mentioned in my earlier post.

The word "Incel" doesn't need to be included in a definition of right-wing extremism because much of the the ideology found in the Incel movement such as misogyny, gender supremacy, homophobia, and white supremacy are also found in right-wing extremism.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Do you think that one sentence is enough to determine his motive or ideology?

Here is more from William Atchison:

“How am I supposed to function in this world? Wherever I go, I see degeneracy. Pointless materialism, hedonism, sexual decay, dirty ******* who do nothing but slowly break down this society etc. it’s ******* everywhere. No way to escape it, 99% of people are part of it and whatever I do I am confronted with the death of the West. Go to the store and buy groceries in peace? Nope, here’s a group of LGBT liberal filth in line with you. And there’s a ****** family with 10 kids over there. And a Finn too, but he’s overweight as **** and he’s buying alcohol and **** junk food. ******* fantastic."

By his own words he fits the definition of a right-wing extremist to a T.

How so? He's talking about the things that he doesn't like in the world.....materialism/hedonism/sexual immorality, etc. He complains about the Finnish as much as he complains about gay people.

Sorry, but complaining about it doesn't mean that's why he went and shot up his former school.

 

[Ana the Ist]

It cost less than $500,000 to pull off 9/11 and 19 perpetrators. A chemical, biological, or dirty bomb capable of killing thousands of people could be done for a fraction of the amount that was spent on the 9/11 attacks and would require fewer people. A determined individual could do it.

They just don't.

Experts in the field of violent extremism disagree.

Proof.

Those associated with the National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism and members of US Homeland Security who specialize in counter terrorism who use their data in their reports.

The National Consortium is a liberal college-based research group. Department of Homeland Security doesn't have a counter-terrorism agency.

As for the experts, I've already given you the opinions of the heads of the CIA and FBI and they disagree.

If you spent any time at all reading what those who identify as Incel post online, you would know that it's not just a group of people upset because they aren't having sex.

They are.

It matters because the risk is higher from a group of 50,000 individuals who are intent to harm others, and another group that only has 20,000.

No....it doesn't. The only way that would be true is if everyone from both groups were just as capable of doing harm.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I included definitions I'm familiar with based on the training and courses I have taken on this subject over the years.

Methinks your training leaves a lot to be desired.

To be honest I'm not all that familiar with the ADL's specific definition of right-wing extremism, but based on what is written in the full report it would no doubt be in line with those I mentioned in my earlier post.

No doubt, huh?

Extreme Right / Radical Right / Far Right

"The term “extreme right” is used to describe right-wing political, social and religious movements that exist outside of and are more radical than mainstream conservatism. In the United States, the extreme right consists primarily of two large, slightly overlapping spheres. In one sphere is the white supremacist movement, including its various submovements, such as neo-Nazis, racist skinheads, and the alt right, among others. In the other sphere are anti-government extremist movements such as the militia movement and sovereign citizens (collectively, this sphere is often referred to as the “Patriot” movement). Also in the extreme right are several “single-issue” movements, which each tend to be the extreme wing of a more mainstream conservative movement; these include anti-abortion extremists, anti-immigrant extremists, anti-Muslim extremists, and anti-public lands extremists, among others."

The word "Incel" doesn't need to be included in a definition of right-wing extremism because much of the the ideology found in the Incel movement such as misogyny,

What is the "ideology" of an incel and where can I find it?

gender supremacy, homophobia, and white supremacy are also found in right-wing extremism.

Can you be an incel and not believe in any of those things?

 

[JosephZ]

They just don't.

There have been numerous plots uncovered where right-wing extremists planned on using weapons of mass destruction to cause a mass casualty event. Just because they haven't succeed yet doesn't mean they're not trying.

Proof.

The entries I included in my list came straight from the START Global Terrorism Database. If they are on the list and labeled as being right-wing extremists, then experts agreed that this is what they were.

The National Consortium is a liberal college-based research group.

Here is the bio of the director of the National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism (START)

William Braniff is the Director of the National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism (START) and a Professor of the Practice at the University of Maryland. He previously served as the Director of Practitioner Education and an Instructor at West Point’s Combating Terrorism Center (CTC). There he led the practitioner education program, the nation’s largest provider of counterterrorism education to federal, state and local governmental audiences.

Braniff is a graduate of the United States Military Academy where he received his bachelor’s degree. Following his Company Command as an Armor Officer in the U.S. Army, Braniff attended the Johns Hopkins University School of Advanced International Studies (SAIS) where he received a master’s degree in international relations. Upon graduation, Bill worked in the nuclear counterterrorism field at the Department of Energy's National Nuclear Security Administration, and as a research associate with the CTC Harmony Project at West Point.

Here are some of the major funders of START:

US Air Force Office of Scientific Research
US Department of Defense
US Department of Homeland Security
US Department of State
US Department of Commerce
US Department of Justice
US Federal Emergency Management Agency

The staff of the National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism come from a wide variety of backgrounds. Just because its headquarted on a college campus doesn't mean its a liberal organization. START provides the most comprehensive terrorism database in the world and is used by government agencies like The State Department and The National Counterterrorism Center.

If START classifies an individual as being a right wing extremists or labels an attack as being a right-wing attack, then it's good enough for me.

Department of Homeland Security doesn't have a counter-terrorism agency.

The Department of Homeland Security is a large organization and operates Customs and Border Protection, FEMA, TSA, Counterterrorism, and U.S. Immigration.

DHS actually has quite a few counter terrorism experts in their ranks.

As for the experts, I've already given you the opinions of the heads of the CIA and FBI and they disagree.

You provided testimony from partisan heads of government agencies who were appointed to their position. This issue of right-wing, left-wing or other forms of domestic terrorism weren't even addressed in the hearing you linked to. It was focused on foreign threats and HGVs. Just because there was no mention of right-wing extremism during the hearing doesn't mean it isn't a threat or that it's not equally as dangerous as Islamic extremism.

They are.

No, the Icel movement is more complex than that.

No....it doesn't. The only way that would be true is if everyone from both groups were just as capable of doing harm.

What makes you feel that everyone from both groups aren't capable of doing harm? Are you capable of doing harm to others? I'll answer this one for you, of course you are, just as I am.

Methinks your training leaves a lot to be desired.

That's your opinion and I have no problem with that

No doubt, huh?

As expected, the ADL definition is in line with those I provided.

Extreme Right / Radical Right / Far Right

"The term “extreme right” is used to describe right-wing political, social and religious movements that exist outside of and are more radical than mainstream conservatism. In the United States, the extreme right consists primarily of two large, slightly overlapping spheres. In one sphere is the white supremacist movement, including its various submovements, such as neo-Nazis, racist skinheads, and the alt right, among others. In the other sphere are anti-government extremist movements such as the militia movement and sovereign citizens (collectively, this sphere is often referred to as the “Patriot” movement). Also in the extreme right are several “single-issue” movements, which each tend to be the extreme wing of a more mainstream conservative movement; these include anti-abortion extremists, anti-immigrant extremists, anti-Muslim extremists, and anti-public lands extremists, among others."

Misogyny is an element of the alt-right, so Incels would fit the above definition.

What is the "ideology" of an incel and where can I find it?

In an Incel forum

Can you be an incel and not believe in any of those things?

Yes, there are plenty of people who are involuntarily celibate that don't hold extremist views.

 

[JosephZ]

How so? He's talking about the things that he doesn't like in the world.....materialism/hedonism/sexual immorality, etc. He complains about the Finnish as much as he complains about gay people.

Sorry, but complaining about it doesn't mean that's why he went and shot up his former school.

I will highlight the portions of the definition of right-wing extremism and include portions of William Atchison's quote in blue that will clearly show that he was by definition a right-wing extremist.

Right-wing extremism is violence in support of the belief that personal and/or national way of life is under attack and is either already lost or that the threat is imminent.

"Wherever I go, I see degeneracy. Pointless materialism, hedonism, sexual decay, dirty ******* who do nothing but slowly break down this society etc. it’s ******* everywhere. No way to escape it, 99% of people are part of it and whatever I do I am confronted with the death of the West."

Characterized by anti-globalism, racial or ethnic supremacy

dirty N****** who do nothing but slowly break down this society. ...there’s a N****** family with 10 kids over there.

or nationalism, suspicion of centralized federal authority, reverence for individual liberty, and/or belief in conspiracy theories that involve grave threat to national sovereignty and/or personal liberty. -- National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism/United States Department of Homeland Security

 

[Ana the Ist]

I will highlight the portions of the definition of right-wing extremism and include portions of William Atchison's quote in blue that will clearly show that he was by definition a right-wing extremist.

Right-wing extremism is violence in support of the belief that personal and/or national way of life is under attack and is either already lost or that the threat is imminent.

"Wherever I go, I see degeneracy. Pointless materialism, hedonism, sexual decay, dirty ******* who do nothing but slowly break down this society etc. it’s ******* everywhere. No way to escape it, 99% of people are part of it and whatever I do I am confronted with the death of the West."

Characterized by anti-globalism, racial or ethnic supremacy

dirty N****** who do nothing but slowly break down this society. ...there’s a N****** family with 10 kids over there.

or nationalism, suspicion of centralized federal authority, reverence for individual liberty, and/or belief in conspiracy theories that involve grave threat to national sovereignty and/or personal liberty. -- National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism/United States Department of Homeland Security

And you realize just because he complains about these things doesn't mean they motivated his actions.

After all, none of his victims were black or, to my knowledge, gay.