As a Christian, how many of you believe in evolution?

[the iconoclast]

So far you haven't. All I've had is assurances and no actual results. I am not impressed by your excuses.

Hey hey kylie

I leave you this post for your consideration - while you wait. This will be added to a original conversation.

Lets consider the notion of a safety valve.

Risk management requires consideration and application of reason. What if, needs an answer or solution.

If a dog gets hot he pants, a human example would be sweating. Cuts include a number of bodily responses. Convoluted ear canals reduce damage to the eardrum. Our bodily responses are organized to minimize harm.

Random process by definition would only succeed by accident. If i were to decide, to clean my clothes by throwing them up in the air, how clean would they be when they came down. That is a random process, it will not compete with using a washing machine.

You might strike it lucky but there is also no reason why you should.

It is a series of actions or steps taken in order to achieve a particular end that happens unexpectedly or unintentionally. Random process is a contradiction in terms.

A process follows a sequence and if the sequence fails or misfires, the results will be wrong or the process will simply fail.

What do you think?

Cheers

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

He spoke it and it happened.

So.... the equivalent of "abracadabra" followed by "POOF"?

Or if you want to explain it through science, the energy of God became the matter which comprises the universe; since energy and matter are convertible.

For that to be "science", you're going to have to demonstrate that claim instead of just asserting it.

Good luck with that.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

...

Please fix the quoting in that post.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Reality is the sum total of all existence; the natural and the supernatural.
To deny the supernatural is to deny 50% of existence

Please support your claim that 50% (or any % for that matter) or reality consists of supernatural stuff.

The physical world is not reality. It is the physical world. Belief only in it is not enlightenment but ignorance.

This is not about me dogmatically limiting reality.
This is about you dogmatically adding unobservable, undemonstrable things to observable and demonstrable reality.


Having said that, your post does not address the post you are supposedly replying to.

You stated, literally, that evolution by definition must be wrong, because it happens to contradict YOUR personal faith based beliefs.

Whenever you put yourself in a position where things are considered wrong BY DEFAULT (regardless of evidence, regardless of accuracy, ...) for the SOLE reason that it contradicts that which you already happen to believe.............. You effectively set yourself up for holding false believes eventually. It's that simple.

It's LITERALLY the conscious choice of NOT being willing to learn.


It's pretty much the definition of intellectual dishonesty.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I believe this thread was targeted to Christians, not atheists. Note the title does not begin with "As an atheist..."

If the OP wanted exclusively christian responsed, then it should have been posted in one of the many christian only sections of the forum, instead of this small space where atheists are also allowed to post.

So stop complaining and address the points being raised.

 

[tas8831]

He spoke it and it happened.

That tells me exactly nothing .

Or if you want to explain it through science, the energy of God

Please quantify the "energy of God". It is not science if you are just making things up.

became the matter which comprises the universe; since energy and matter are convertible.

Sorry, but begging the question is not scientific, lego.

 

[7angels]

Hi Angels. There really isn't such a thing as a theory of time travel.

Theories really just explain things that are real. Hypotheses suggest ideas of things that may or may not be real.

reply to post 698
I thought about your reply and just to see if you were right I searched theories on time travel on the internet. here is one result.


Time travel theories

Image: lovethispic.com
Einstein's theory of special relativity says that time slows down or speeds up depending on how fast you move relative to something else. Approaching the speed of light, a person inside a spaceship would age much slower than his twin at home. Also, under Einstein's theory of general relativity, gravity can bend time.
time travel is a theory

God bless

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Please explain how you went from this:

at time slows down or speeds up depending on how fast you move relative to something else. Approaching the speed of light, a person inside a spaceship would age much slower than his twin at home. Also, under Einstein's theory of general relativity, gravity can bend time.

To this:

time travel is a theory

God bless

It seems you skipped a few steps. I don't see how you can conclude the latter from the former.

 

[7angels]

Please explain how you went from this:



To this:




It seems you skipped a few steps. I don't see how you can conclude the latter from the former.

please you are going to get involved with someone else's discussion please read the previous posts first. it also helps to include the posts are referring too so people don't misunderstand you. I will go over it once more for you.

previous post said time travel was not a theory. I replied, "I thought about your reply and just to see if you were right I searched theories on time travel on the internet. here is one result."

if you are not interested in Einstein's theory look at any of the others listed in your search engine when you look it up yourself. I don't have time to list 1 million sites to you. I hope this helps.

God bless

 

[Job 33:6]

reply to post 698
I thought about your reply and just to see if you were right I searched theories on time travel on the internet. here is one result.


Time travel theories

Image: lovethispic.com
Einstein's theory of special relativity says that time slows down or speeds up depending on how fast you move relative to something else. Approaching the speed of light, a person inside a spaceship would age much slower than his twin at home. Also, under Einstein's theory of general relativity, gravity can bend time.
time travel is a theory

God bless

The theory of relativity is not a theory of time travel .

It doesn't state that, one might travel into the past for example. It simply states that objects moving closer to the speed of light, temporally slow.

And relativity is something that is used to explain real things, such as gravity. So there is never really a time in which gravity goes from not proven to proven. The theory simply explains what is observed in reality.

 

[USincognito]

There are the terms micro evolution and macro evolution.

Micro evolution changes within their own kind, ie different kinds of cats, dogs etc. and we see this

Macro evolution - not after their kind ... we do not see, ie cats and dogs don't cross breed etc.

Note: Biblically micro evolution is supported and accepted, macro evolution is not.

The difference between micro-evolution and macro-evolution is quantitative, not qualitative. There is no magic barrier between the two and it is just the same process over longer periods of time.

"Kind" is a scientifically meaningless term. No one expects beings as distantly related as separate families within an order to be able to crossbreed. They are members of the same order because they have common ancestry. Both cats and dogs are evolved from an earlier population of basal carnivore.

 

[USincognito]

Real scientists know the auto- origination of anything is an impossibility.

Physicists will certainly be surprised to learn that.
Physicists make something from nothing with 'virtual' | Cosmos

 

[USincognito]

Evolution is contrary to the word of God, which makes it by definition false.

That's some very faulty logic because we have a massive amount of evidence for evolution. That for which we have evidence cannot be "false". Clearly the problem is with your interpretation of Scripture.

 

[USincognito]

I acknowledge what we see ... through nature ... and nature shows micro evolution ... after their kind. Where is the evidence of the transitions (in-between stages) that took place over time? If so, there should be millions of them. Where are they?

I always find this tactic to be quite befuddling. If you're so interested, why are you asking people on an Internet forum rather than using the search engine your computer/device comes with? Also, scientists have been studying the fossil record for nearly 200 years. If there were no transitional fossils, what do you think paleontologists have been studying all that time? Do you think that published papers are full of noting but question marks and blank space?

This website isn't comprehensive, but it lists a lot of transitional fossils.
(A few) transitional fossils

 

[USincognito]

Fossil record don't show transitions. Do you have any links to actual photographs (not drawings) of transitions in the fossil record? Everything I've seen myself and found online show fully formed "creatures"

What exactly are you expecting to see in a transtional? Something with half a wing or half a eye? Because that's not how it works. And why would a photo be more informative than a drawing? Do you think that the drawings are just made up instead of being of the actual fossils themselves?

and then the evolution explanation/interpretation of such ... uses words like

suggest, likely, similar to, could be considered, theorized

That's because all science is provisional, not absolute. That's a strength, not a weakness.

then charts, drawings etc. are added ... where are the actual photographs of the transitions? If true, there should be many many of them.

The "photos, not drawings" shtick is a hollow objection. The drawings are based on actual fossils and it's not like you or me or any other layperson has enough anatomical knowledge to get more meaningful information from a photo vs. a drawing.

But since you ask...

Evolution is the supposed process by which the first cell evolved into the diversity of life we see today.

What do you mean by "the first cell"? I keep seeing that specific verbiage from Creationists and it's very imprecise. Do you mean the first primordial living organism that reproduced and passed on genetic material to offspring?

However, evolution has never been observed and natural selection and mutations cannot add the information necessary to change one kind into another.

These sorts of claims are laughable. Scientists are going to be surprised that the observations of evolution they've been making for the last 170 years don't exist and that mutations don't "add information"

Also, what do you meany by "one kind into another"? Could you give us a hypothetical example of what you mean by that?

 

[Aman777]

Scientists are going to be surprised that the observations of evolution they've been making for the last 170 years don't exist and that mutations don't "add information"

Also, what do you meany by "one kind into another"? Could you give us a hypothetical example of what you mean by that?

Where is the information stored? If what you say was true, we could close all the Schools. As to kinds, there are only two kinds in Genesis.

His kinds are the temporary kinds made by the Hands of Jesus, called Lord God in Genesis. Their kinds are the kinds created by God the Trinity, the invisible Spirit. On Earth, we have two kinds of people, temporary kinds which are subject to death and Eternal kinds, destined for immortality in Heaven. Amen?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

please you are going to get involved with someone else's discussion please read the previous posts first. it also helps to include the posts are referring too so people don't misunderstand you. I will go over it once more for you.

previous post said time travel was not a theory. I replied, "I thought about your reply and just to see if you were right I searched theories on time travel on the internet. here is one result."

if you are not interested in Einstein's theory look at any of the others listed in your search engine when you look it up yourself. I don't have time to list 1 million sites to you. I hope this helps.

God bless

Einstein's relativity, isn't a theory of time travel.
It's a theory of how time is relative.

 

[Kylie]

Hey hey kylie

I leave you this post for your consideration - while you wait. This will be added to a original conversation.

Lets consider the notion of a safety valve.

Risk management requires consideration and application of reason. What if, needs an answer or solution.

If a dog gets hot he pants, a human example would be sweating. Cuts include a number of bodily responses. Convoluted ear canals reduce damage to the eardrum. Our bodily responses are organized to minimize harm.

Random process by definition would only succeed by accident. If i were to decide, to clean my clothes by throwing them up in the air, how clean would they be when they came down. That is a random process, it will not compete with using a washing machine.

You might strike it lucky but there is also no reason why you should.

It is a series of actions or steps taken in order to achieve a particular end that happens unexpectedly or unintentionally. Random process is a contradiction in terms.

A process follows a sequence and if the sequence fails or misfires, the results will be wrong or the process will simply fail.

What do you think?

Cheers

Let's say that you had lots of individuals in a population, each with different shaped ear canals. Some are straight, others are convoluted. Animals that get damage to the eardrum are less likely to hear warning calls or the approach of a predator. Thus, they are more likely to be killed by a predator. Animals with convoluted ear canals are more likely to survive encounters with predators because they are likely to have intact eardrums and thus are likely to hear the warning calls and the predator.

Tell me, which individuals do you think are most likely to pass their genes on more?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I understand where you are coming from but when you have enough facts to prove a theory what happens?

Theories are never considered "proven" either. Only supported.
A theory with a truckload of supporting evidence, like evolution, simply is a really really well supported and solid theory.

for example at the moment time travel being possible is a theory atm because it is not proven.

There is no such thing as a scientific "time travel theory".
Please don't confuse a scientific theory, with a "theory" that one might dream up late at night at the bar over a few beers.

I know what definition say and they are correct but now link or separate them so I understand where the difference is.

What part is confusing you?

 

[FatalFantasy]

I am curious if any Christians believe that evolution occurs (take careful note of the phrase, "evolution occurs" it means if it has happened or will happen, regardless of whether or not humans evolved from other primates). Please take the time to answer, thanks for any responses.


(For full disclosure I am atheist)

** Convenient definition of evolution for those unsure: Evolution is changes in a life form due to mutations in their genetic code, leading to the success or failure (or neither) of the mutation, leading to the mutated creature having more success mating, therefore passing on the improved gene or no success, leading to the gene not being passed on. Or to put it simply, changes in a life form over time. **

I have no problem accepting evolution & the Bible. Even though the fall occurred 6000 year's ago, it was not a fall from a perfect creation. The accounts in Genisis does not say God made thing's perfect (As in immortal) it just says "God saw it was Good" it was good until humans wanted knowledge of good & evil. Even though God put other tree's in the garden to learn from, no, humans wanted only the tree of knowledge of good & evil