ADL Report on extremist violence

[SummerMadness]

My reason for asking the original question was because it seems you have a double standard when it comes to right-wing extremists and Islamic extremists and I was just wondering why you are so quick to discount the treat posed by right-wing extremism in the US.

I think a double standard may arise from not being a target of such extremists. Right-wing extremists tend to rail against non-white people and foreigners, hence the reason many of them align with neo-Nazis and other white supremacist groups. And even in the face of increased violence, they are still not the target of that violence, thus responses attempting to minimize or ignore the murders they commit. It also goes back to talking about Muslims as a group at all times; when you speak in those terms you can only become mum when the perpetrators look no different from you. Suddenly, the ridiculous smearing of an entire group becomes unpalatable, which means the best option is to pretend the murders and violence are not happening, it's better to simply dismiss the increased violence.

 

[Redac]

Right-wing extremists are doing more than posting flyers.

View attachment 250299
https://www.start.umd.edu/pubs/START_ECDB_IslamistFarRightHomicidesUS_Infographic_Feb2017.pdf


The increase in right-wing extremism is something to be concerned about. Just a few months ago we had this incident which killed 11 people. 11 confirmed dead, suspect in custody after Pittsburgh synagogue attack Unfortunately it's just a matter of time before we see another similar attack or something even more extreme like the Oklahoma City bombing carried out by right-wing extremists.

Here are some recent examples of right-wing extremist activities.

4 charged with plot to bomb Muslim community of Islamberg in upstate NY
3 Men Sentenced in Plot to Bomb Somali Immigrants in Kansas
Minnesota mosque bombers plead guilty

So even removing 9/11 -- which is pretty dubious, but okay -- "Islamic extremists" are responsible for roughly half as many killings as "right-wing extremists". Even just accepting everything at face value -- the definitions of what constitutes an extremist of either kind, which killings get counted, etc. -- the number of potential "right-wing extremists" in the United States (i.e. white people, generally speaking) is vastly larger than the number of potential "Islamic extremists" (i.e. Muslims). Yet, they only commit twice as many killings. This suggests that, proportionally speaking, Muslims are more likely to radicalize and/or commit violence by a pretty significant degree.

Funny, that.

 

[JosephZ]

So even removing 9/11 -- which is pretty dubious, but okay

9/11 was a Black Swan event, it was and outlier and has to be removed to make a fair assessment of the risks posed by Islamic extremists in the US. If you include the deaths that occurred on 9/11 in an attempt to determine risk it distorts reality. This is why you see every legitimate and unbiased study on extremism remove the number of deaths that occurred on 9/11 from their data sets. It would actually be dubious to include those deaths, because someone could then make the claim that they are much more likely to be killed by an Islamic extremist in the US because they have killed 7 times more people than right-wing extremists. While it's true that Islamic extremists have killed seven times more people, it is not true that a person in the US is more likely to be killed by an Islamic extremist than a right-wing extremist because more people have been killed by Islamic extremists, there are other factors that have to be taken into account. When you remove the outliers like the events of 9/11 on the side of Islamic extremism, and also the Oklahoma City Bombing on the side of right-wing extremism, you get a more fair and accurate comparison between the two.

the number of potential "right-wing extremists" in the United States (i.e. white people, generally speaking) is vastly larger than the number of potential "Islamic extremists" (i.e. Muslims). Yet, they only commit twice as many killings. This suggests that, proportionally speaking, Muslims are more likely to radicalize and/or commit violence by a pretty significant degree.

That's way to simple of an approach to come to such a conclusion.

 

[JosephZ]

So you're saying that a discussion about the activities of a global terrorist network that is trying to acquire weapons of mass destruction...

...and some kids who posted on a white supremacist website before shooting someone are the same thing?

There is no difference between the threat that right-wing extremism and Islamic extremism pose to the American public.

They seemed normal but plotted to kill thousands
National News Briefs; Material for Poison Gas Found in Suspect's Home
Report: 'Dirty bomb' parts found in slain man's home
CNN - 2 charged with making biological weapons - February 19, 1998
Admitted neo-Nazi stopped in Keys wanted for making explosives at home, cops say

As for your comment about some kids posting on a white supremacist website before shooting someone in order to discount the threat of right-wing extremism, if Muslim kids were found to be posting on an Islamic extremist site and later shot someone, they would immediately be labeled as terrorists.

 

[Nithavela]

Looks like a defunding is in order.

 

[SummerMadness]

So even removing 9/11 -- which is pretty dubious, but okay -- "Islamic extremists" are responsible for roughly half as many killings as "right-wing extremists". Even just accepting everything at face value -- the definitions of what constitutes an extremist of either kind, which killings get counted, etc. -- the number of potential "right-wing extremists" in the United States (i.e. white people, generally speaking) is vastly larger than the number of potential "Islamic extremists" (i.e. Muslims). Yet, they only commit twice as many killings. This suggests that, proportionally speaking, Muslims are more likely to radicalize and/or commit violence by a pretty significant degree.

Funny, that.

Your argument is a perfect example why median income is used as opposed to average income. You can't simply add all the numbers and compare them to get an accurate picture, hence the need to remove outliers.

 

[Ana the Ist]

There is no difference between the threat that right-wing extremism and Islamic extremism pose to the American public.

Well luckily the people we rely on to stop extremists feel differently.

Regardless, even this ADL report shows that even in a slow year for Muslim extremists, they're committing 25% despite only being 1.1% of the population.

If you were honest, you'd admit it's not even close.

As for your comment about some kids posting on a white supremacist website before shooting someone in order to discount the threat of right-wing extremism,

That's what they're counting in the study.

if Muslim kids were found to be posting on an Islamic extremist site and later shot someone, they would immediately be labeled as terrorists.

If he's yelling Allah Akhbar and death to the west....he should be.

 

[JosephZ]

Well luckily the people we rely on to stop extremists feel differently.

Can you provide a source to back up this claim?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Can you provide a source to back up this claim?

Sure....will the CIA director work?

CIA director: ISIS still 'enormous threat' despite group's battlefield setbacks

If you're thinking, "well why are they an enormous threat? We've got white kids smirking to worry about these days..."

"The terrorist organizations, be it ISIS or others, want to have the big explosion like they did on 9/11," Duke said, according to reporting by Express. "They want to take down aircraft, the intelligence is clear on that."

Pompeo said bad actors willing to do harm to the West can go online to learn bomb-making skills from terrorists without ever getting on a phone or sending email. "Tools that we have developed to take down [terrorist] networks are less likely to be successful," he said."

 

[JosephZ]

Sure....will the CIA director work?

CIA director: ISIS still 'enormous threat' despite group's battlefield setbacks

I think we know that Islamic extremism is a threat, but you said that the people we rely on to stop extremists feel differently than what I posted about there being no difference between the threat that right-wing extremism and Islamic extremism pose to the American public.

I was looking for you to provide a source from these people we rely on to stop extremist saying that right-wing extremism doesn't pose as much of a threat to the American public as Islamic extremism.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Can you provide a source to back up this claim?

Here's part of the FBI director's testimony to the Senate on Threats to the Homeland.

Hearings | Homeland Security & Governmental Affairs Committee

You can find the pdf there if you wish to read it yourself. Here's the first couple of paragraphs...

"The threat posed by terrorism – both International Terrorism (IT) and Domestic
Terrorism (DT) – has evolved significantly since 9/11. Preventing terrorist attacks remains the
FBI’s top priority. We face persistent threats to the Homeland and to U.S. interests abroad from
HVEs, domestic terrorists, and Foreign Terrorist Organizations (FTOs). The IT threat to the
U.S. has expanded from sophisticated, externally directed FTO plots to include individual attacks
carried out by HVEs who are inspired by designated terrorist organizations. We remain
concerned that groups such as the Islamic State of Iraq and ash-Sham (ISIS) and al-Qa’ida (AQ)
have the intent to carry out large-scale attacks in the U.S.
The FBI assesses HVEs are the greatest terrorism threat to the Homeland. These
individuals are global jihad-inspired individuals who are in the U.S., have been radicalized
primarily in the U.S., and are not receiving individualized direction from FTOs. We, along with
our law enforcement partners, face significant challenges in identifying and disrupting HVEs."

An HVE is a homegrown violent extremist.

So there you have it. Both the FBI director and CIA director think radical Muslims are either an enormous threat, or the biggest threat, both here at home and abroad.

Now that I've proven you wrong, will you be admitting it?

 

[Ana the Ist]

I think we know that Islamic extremism is a threat, but you said that the people we rely on to stop extremists feel differently than what I posted about there being no difference between the threat that right-wing extremism and Islamic extremism pose to the American public.

I was looking for you to provide a source from these people we rely on to stop extremist saying that right-wing extremism doesn't pose as much of a threat to the American public as Islamic extremism.

See my previous post....the FBI director literally said Islamic extremists are the "greatest threat" to the US.

You aren't even a little right, you're 100% wrong.

The real question you should ask is why do MSNBC, CNN, HuffPo and the like want to portray some white kid with a laptop as a dangerous threat comparable to ISIS?

 

[JosephZ]

Here's part of the FBI director's testimony to the Senate on Threats to the Homeland.

Hearings | Homeland Security & Governmental Affairs Committee

So there you have it. Both the FBI director and CIA director think radical Muslims are either an enormous threat, or the biggest threat, both here at home and abroad.

That hearing was addressing foreign threats to the US, not domestic. Right-wing extremism wasn't even discussed nor did it compare the threat that right-wing extremism poses as opposed to Islamic extremism.

Now that I've proven you wrong, will you be admitting it?

I will stand by what I posted earlier when I said there is no difference between the threat that right-wing extremism and Islamic extremism pose to the American public.

 

[Ana the Ist]

That hearing was addressing foreign threats to the US, not domestic.

No....it's not.

First lines of the FBI director's testimony...

"Good morning Chairman Johnson, Ranking Member McCaskill, and Members of the
Committee. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today to discuss the current
threats to the United States Homeland. Our Nation continues to face a multitude of serious and
evolving threats ranging from Homegrown Violent Extremists (HVEs) to cyber criminals to
hostile foreign intelligence services and operatives."

It's pretty obvious they're talking about all threats the FBI addresses. Just because you're wrong doesn't mean you have to be sore about it...you were lied to after all.

 

[Ana the Ist]

That hearing was addressing foreign threats to the US, not domestic.

If you read what the DHS secretary says in her opening statement, she makes it clear that there's no point in distinguishing between threats abroad and threats at home...since threats abroad are now capable of radicalizing independently operating domestic threats.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Right-wing extremism wasn't even discussed nor did it compare the threat that right-wing extremism poses as opposed to Islamic extremism.

They said they considered jihadists the "greatest threat"....so clearly they don't consider any other threat as dangerous.

 

[JosephZ]

No....it's not.

I took the time to read each of the testimonies that were presented in that hearing you linked to. There was no mention of domestic right-wing, left-wing, or other type of domestic terrorism.

First lines of the FBI director's testimony...

"Good morning Chairman Johnson, Ranking Member McCaskill, and Members of the Committee. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today to discuss the current threats to the United States Homeland. Our Nation continues to face a multitude of serious and evolving threats ranging from Homegrown Violent Extremists (HVEs) to cyber criminals to hostile foreign intelligence services and operatives."

It's pretty obvious they're talking about all threats the FBI addresses.

Once again, all of what was discussed in that hearing focused on foreign threats. Homegrown Violent Extremists are not the same as domestic terrorists.

A homegrown violent extremist (HVE) is a person of any citizenship who has lived and/or operated primarily in the United States or its territories who advocates, is engaged in, or is preparing to engage in ideologically-motivated terrorist activities (including providing support to terrorism) in furtherance of political or social objectives promoted by a foreign terrorist organization but is acting independently of direction by a foreign terrorist organization. HVEs are distinct from traditional domestic terrorists who engage in unlawful acts of violence to intimidate civilian populations or attempt to influence domestic policy without direction from or influence from a foreign actor. -United States Department of Homeland Security-

If they were talking about all threats, they would have mentioned right-wing terrorism. Unfortunately the current administration, and especially Mike Pompeo who has an anti-islamic bias, focus too much on the Islamic threat and ignore the right-wing threat.

Opinion | Pompeo's Islamophobia makes him unfit to be secretary of state

White supremacists and other far-right extremists have killed far more people since Sept. 11, 2001, than any other category of domestic extremist. The Anti-Defamation League’s Center on Extremism has reported that 71 percent of the extremist-related fatalities in the United States between 2008 and 2017 were committed by members of the far right or white-supremacist movements. Islamic extremists were responsible for just 26 percent. Data compiled by the University of Maryland’s Global Terrorism Database shows that the number of terror-related incidents has more than tripled in the United States since 2013, and the number of those killed has quadrupled. In 2017, there were 65 incidents totaling 95 deaths. In a recent analysis of the data by the news site Quartz, roughly 60 percent of those incidents were driven by racist, anti-Muslim, anti-Semitic, antigovernment or other right-wing ideologies. Left-wing ideologies, like radical environmentalism, were responsible for 11 attacks. Muslim extremists committed just seven attacks.

These statistics belie the strident rhetoric around “foreign-born” terrorists that the Trump administration has used to drive its anti-immigration agenda. They also raise questions about the United States’ counterterrorism strategy, which for nearly two decades has been focused almost exclusively on American and foreign-born jihadists, overshadowing right-wing extremism as a legitimate national-security threat. According to a recent report by the nonpartisan Stimson Center, between 2002 and 2017, the United States spent $2.8 trillion — 15 percent of discretionary spending — on counterterrorism. Terrorist attacks by Muslim extremists killed 100 people in the United States during that time. Between 2008 and 2017, domestic extremists killed 387 in the United States, according to the 2018 Anti-Defamation League report.

“We’re actually seeing all the same phenomena of what was happening with groups like ISIS, same tactics, but no one talks about it because it’s far-right extremism,” says the national-security strategist P. W. Singer, a senior fellow at the New America think tank. During the first year of the Trump administration, Singer and a colleague met with a group of senior administration officials about building a counterterrorism strategy that encompassed a wider range of threats. “They only wanted to talk about Muslim extremism,” he says. But even before the Trump administration, he says, “we willingly turned the other way on white supremacy because there were real political costs to talking about white supremacy.”

U.S. Law Enforcement Failed to See the Threat of White Nationalism. Now They Don’t Know How to Stop It.

To say that right-wing extremism isn't equally as much of a threat to Americans as Islamic extremism ignores the facts.

 

[USincognito]

It seems that ADL stand for Anti-Defamation League. I only found that after searching a bit as all I found was one tiny mention at the bottom of the page with the copyright. I guess they must think everyone knows what ADL stands for. I always thought that it was the Jewish Anti Defamation League. So I did not recognize ADL as being the same organization I thought of . I guess I was misinformed. I did not see the address or whether they gave tours . I saw no explanation of why they lump anarchists in with the left wing. nor did I see an answer about ideologically only killings or how they decide if a killing is not ideologically motivated. Did I miss it somewhere?

I'm kind of surprised that you didn't know what the ADL was. And as far as "lumping" anarchists in with the left wing, anarchists have always been considered left wing.

 

[JosephZ]

The real question you should ask is why do MSNBC, CNN, HuffPo and the like want to portray some white kid with a laptop as a dangerous threat comparable to ISIS?

Do you not find these threats comparable to ISIS?

They seemed normal but plotted to kill thousands
National News Briefs; Material for Poison Gas Found in Suspect's Home
Report: 'Dirty bomb' parts found in slain man's home
CNN - 2 charged with making biological weapons - February 19, 1998
Admitted neo-Nazi stopped in Keys wanted for making explosives at home, cops say

Just because you're wrong doesn't mean you have to be sore about it...you were lied to after all.

By whom?

 

[camille70]

I don't care for them, but the Young Turks have a video on youtube I was going to put in the why is MAGA offensive thread titled Right-Wing Committed Every Extremist Murder In 2018: