Is a 3rd future Temple needed to fulfill Bible prophecy?

[LittleLambofJesus]

According to the videos you posted, the Jewish defenders undermined the N wall of F. Antonia, first successfully opening up a sinkhole under the Roman siege towers... but then also under the N wall of the fort which also collapsed afterwards

If so, and if the Haram = Antonia, then there was once archeological evidence of those mines, and the collapse pits containing remains of Roman siege towers and the original N walls of the Haram structure, along the N wall of the Haram

Thank you all your posts and graphics.
Have you and/or others noticed the 2 different greek words used for "Jerusalem" in the NT.

#2419 is used only 1 time each in Matt and Mark.
0 times in John
all the rest in Luke, Acts, Epistles and Revelation

Genesis 1:1 (NKJV)

Mat 23:37 “O Jerusalem<2419>, Jerusalem<2419>, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!
Luk 13:34 “O Jerusalem<2419>, Jerusalem<2419>, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!
Mar 11:1
Now when they drew near Jerusalem<2419>, to Bethphage and Bethany, at the Mount of Olives, He sent two of His disciples;
===============================
#2414 is mainly used in Matthew, Mark, John,
only 5 times in Luke
Acts,
Epistleson 3 times in the Epistles
Gal 1:17
nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.
Gal 1:18
Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter,[fn] and remained with him fifteen days.
Gal 2:1
Then after fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and also took Titus with me.
and none in Revelation.
=======================
2414. Hierosoluma of Hebrew origin (3389); Hierosolyma (i.e. Jerushalaim}, the capitol of Palestine:--Jerusalem. Compare 2419.
G2414 (Hierosolyma), occurs 59 times in 59 verses

10 chapters in Acts-------- 18 verses
1, 8, 11, 13, 18, 20, 21, 25, 26, 28,
8 chapters in Matt------- 12 verses
2, 3, 4, 5, 15, 16, 20, 21
7 chapters in John------- 12 verses
1, 2, 4, 5, 10, 11,12
5 chapters in Mark------- 9 verses
3, 7, 10, 11, 15
4 chapters in Luke-------- 5 verses
2, 18,19,23
2 chapters in Galatians----- 3 verses
1 and 2
=======================================
2419. Hierousalem =of Hebrew origin (3389); Hierusalem (i.e. Jerushalem), the capitol of Palestine:--Jerusalem. Compare 2414.
=G2419 matches the Greek (Ierousalēm), occurs 83 times in 80 verses

26 chapters Luke-----27 verses
25 chapters Acts--------40 verses
2 chapters Revelation--- 3 verses
1 chapter Romans-------4 verses
1 chapter Galatians----- 2 verses
1 chapter Matthew---- 1 verses
1 chapter Mark---------1 verses
1 chapter 1 Corin--------1 verse
1 chapter Hebrews------ 1 verse
0 chapters for John--- 0

 

[Choose Wisely]

My mistake. I was confusing "times of the Gentiles" with "fullness of Gentiles". I should have gotten more sleep last night.

.....as Parousia70 already mentioned, that fullness has been brought in.

Ok, it was an honest mistake. Why would you compound that by saying the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. Aren't Muslims Gentiles.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

mkgal1 said: ↑
My mistake. I was confusing "times of the Gentiles" with "fullness of Gentiles". I should have gotten more sleep last night.

Ok, it was an honest mistake. Why would you compound that by saying the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. Aren't Muslims Gentiles.

Don't forget about the 1 billion Chinese Buddhists.
Add 1 billion Muslims and 1 billion Buddhists, I would say it will be a minimum of at least 5000 to 10,000 more yrs for the fullness of them to come in. Really?

I tend to be of the view that is is the fullness of the 2 Nations of Israel and Judah, ....minus the corrupt murderous Judean Rulers.

Let's examine the word "hardening" used in Romans 11:

The word Paul uses in Romans 11, #4457. is used in only 3 verses of the entire NT.

In Mark 3, look at those who want to kill Jesus after He healed the withered hand.

Mar 3:5
5 And having looked round upon them with wrath<3709> sorrowing over the hardness<4457> of their heart, he is saying to the man,
'Stretch forth! thy hand, and he stretches it out,
and his hand was restored<600> whole as the other;
6 and the Pharisees having gone forth, immediately, with the Herodians, were taking counsel against him how they might destroy Him.

Rom 11:25
For I do not wish you to be ignorant, brethren, of this mystery that ye may not be wise in your own conceits<5429> --
that a hardening/<4457> from part<3113> to the Israel has become <1096> until of which the fullness<4138> of the nations/gentiles<1484> may be entering;

Eph 4:18
being darkened to the understanding, being alienated<526> the life of God, thru the ignorance being in them, the hardness<4457> of their heart,

Looking at the only 3 verses in the NT #G4457 is used, it appears Paul was speaking more of a specific people, the hardening of the 1st century Judean Rulership in Jerusalem,
whom had "fallen into bed" with Herod and the Romans.
To me, that is the only thing that makes scriptural sense.
========================
Just as Pharaoh and his cohorts were hardenend.

Pharaoh is only mentioned 5 times in the NT, and only in Acts and Epistles

Rom 9:17 -
for the Writing saith to Pharaoh --
'For this very thing I did raise thee up, that I might shew in thee My power,
and that My name might be declared in all the land;'
=====================
Egypt is mentioned in 4 verses of Gospels, all in Matthew 2 concerning Joseph, Mariam and baby Jesus fleeing to Egypt to avoid the murderous King Herod...

Matthew 2
13And on their having withdrawn, behold! a messenger of the Lord doth appear in a dream to Joseph, saying,
‘Having risen, take the child and his mother, and flee to Egypt, and be thou there till I may speak to thee,
for Herod is about to seek the child to destroy him.’


14And having risen, took the child and His mother by night, and withdrew to Egypt, 15and he was there till the death of Herod,
that it might be fulfilled that was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, ‘Out of Egypt I did call My Son.’
====================
Then came the slaughter of Rachel's children (Jeremiah 31:1-30)
Rachel had 2 sons, the last 2 born of Jacob/Israel.....Joseph and Benjamin[last born and also Paul's tribe]

Mat 2:18
'A voice in Ramah was heard -- lamentation and weeping and much mourning -- Rachel weeping for her children, and she would not be comforted, because they are not.'

=====================
Then the return from Egypt

19And Herod having died, behold! a messenger of the Lord in a dream doth appear to Joseph in Egypt,
20saying, ‘Having risen, take the child and His mother, and be going to the land of Israel, for they have died — those seeking the life of the child.
21And he, having risen, took the child and his mother, and came to the land of Israel
==============================
Interesting that Joseph in the OT was born of Rachel......

Gen 30:24
and Rachel calleth his name Joseph, saying, 'Jehovah is adding to me another son.'

and he also went to Egypt....

Gen 39:1
And Joseph hath been brought down to Egypt, and Potiphar, a eunuch of Pharaoh, head of the executioners, an Egyptian man, buyeth him out of the hands of the Ishmaelites who have brought him thither.
Gen 41:
14 And Pharaoh sendeth and calleth Joseph, and they cause him to run out of the pit, and he shaveth, and changeth his garments,
and cometh in unto Pharaoh.

42 And Pharaoh turneth aside his seal-ring from off his hand, and putteth it on the hand of Joseph, and clotheth him with garments of fine linen, and placeth a chain of gold on his neck,

===========================

.................

 

[Erik Nelson]

Thank you all your posts and graphics.
Have you and/or others noticed the 2 different greek words used for "Jerusalem" in the NT.

#2419 is used only 1 time each in Matt and Mark.
0 times in John
all the rest in Luke, Acts, Epistles and Revelation

Genesis 1:1 (NKJV)

Mat 23:37 “O Jerusalem<2419>, Jerusalem<2419>, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!
Luk 13:34 “O Jerusalem<2419>, Jerusalem<2419>, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!
Mar 11:1
Now when they drew near Jerusalem<2419>, to Bethphage and Bethany, at the Mount of Olives, He sent two of His disciples;
===============================
#2414 is mainly used in Matthew, Mark, John,
only 5 times in Luke
Acts,
Epistleson 3 times in the Epistles
Gal 1:17
nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.
Gal 1:18
Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter,[fn] and remained with him fifteen days.
Gal 2:1
Then after fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and also took Titus with me.
and none in Revelation.
=======================
2414. Hierosoluma of Hebrew origin (3389); Hierosolyma (i.e. Jerushalaim}, the capitol of Palestine:--Jerusalem. Compare 2419.
G2414 (Hierosolyma), occurs 59 times in 59 verses

10 chapters in Acts-------- 18 verses
1, 8, 11, 13, 18, 20, 21, 25, 26, 28,
8 chapters in Matt------- 12 verses
2, 3, 4, 5, 15, 16, 20, 21
7 chapters in John------- 12 verses
1, 2, 4, 5, 10, 11,12
5 chapters in Mark------- 9 verses
3, 7, 10, 11, 15
4 chapters in Luke-------- 5 verses
2, 18,19,23
2 chapters in Galatians----- 3 verses
1 and 2
=======================================
2419. Hierousalem =of Hebrew origin (3389); Hierusalem (i.e. Jerushalem), the capitol of Palestine:--Jerusalem. Compare 2414.
=G2419 matches the Greek (Ierousalēm), occurs 83 times in 80 verses

26 chapters Luke-----27 verses
25 chapters Acts--------40 verses
2 chapters Revelation--- 3 verses
1 chapter Romans-------4 verses
1 chapter Galatians----- 2 verses
1 chapter Matthew---- 1 verses
1 chapter Mark---------1 verses
1 chapter 1 Corin--------1 verse
1 chapter Hebrews------ 1 verse
0 chapters for John--- 0

Josephus says that. The temple. Was built? On a raised platform enclosed on 3 sides East North and South. By man-made retaining walls. And on the fourth western side by the. Ophel Mount. The raised platform jutted well out into the Kidron Valley.

The man made retaining walls. Were up to 350 cubits? Tall. Or in some places, even taller still. That's over 500 feet. And they were made of a white stone. Such that visitors. Traveling from the East. Coming up on the temple looking West. Perceived the temple. As a "White Mountain".

No way that the Horam structure. The traditional "Temple Mount" structure. Qualifies as a White Mountain over 500 feet tall.

I think that her it's temple was far more impressive than any of the images and renderings of it, I've seen today. The rendering of Doctor Ernest Martin comes closest. But I think you have to imagine. 500 or in some places 600 feet of sheer towering white marble. With the temple courts on top. It really was an artificial mountain. More specifically an artificial extension of the ophel Mount.

But it's 550 feet, it was taller than the Great Pyramids of Giza. Even if it wasn't a completely freestanding structure. But rather built up against the side, the eastern side of the ophel Mount.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Thank you all your posts and graphics.
Have you and/or others noticed the 2 different greek words used for "Jerusalem" in the NT.

#2419 is used only 1 time each in Matt and Mark.
0 times in John
all the rest in Luke, Acts, Epistles and Revelation

Genesis 1:1 (NKJV)

Mat 23:37 “O Jerusalem<2419>, Jerusalem<2419>, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!
Luk 13:34 “O Jerusalem<2419>, Jerusalem<2419>, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!
Mar 11:1
Now when they drew near Jerusalem<2419>, to Bethphage and Bethany, at the Mount of Olives, He sent two of His disciples;
===============================
#2414 is mainly used in Matthew, Mark, John,
only 5 times in Luke
Acts,
Epistleson 3 times in the Epistles
Gal 1:17
nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.
Gal 1:18
Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter,[fn] and remained with him fifteen days.
Gal 2:1
Then after fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and also took Titus with me.
and none in Revelation.
=======================
2414. Hierosoluma of Hebrew origin (3389); Hierosolyma (i.e. Jerushalaim}, the capitol of Palestine:--Jerusalem. Compare 2419.
G2414 (Hierosolyma), occurs 59 times in 59 verses

10 chapters in Acts-------- 18 verses
1, 8, 11, 13, 18, 20, 21, 25, 26, 28,
8 chapters in Matt------- 12 verses
2, 3, 4, 5, 15, 16, 20, 21
7 chapters in John------- 12 verses
1, 2, 4, 5, 10, 11,12
5 chapters in Mark------- 9 verses
3, 7, 10, 11, 15
4 chapters in Luke-------- 5 verses
2, 18,19,23
2 chapters in Galatians----- 3 verses
1 and 2
=======================================
2419. Hierousalem =of Hebrew origin (3389); Hierusalem (i.e. Jerushalem), the capitol of Palestine:--Jerusalem. Compare 2414.
=G2419 matches the Greek (Ierousalēm), occurs 83 times in 80 verses

26 chapters Luke-----27 verses
25 chapters Acts--------40 verses
2 chapters Revelation--- 3 verses
1 chapter Romans-------4 verses
1 chapter Galatians----- 2 verses
1 chapter Matthew---- 1 verses
1 chapter Mark---------1 verses
1 chapter 1 Corin--------1 verse
1 chapter Hebrews------ 1 verse
0 chapters for John--- 0

archaeologists have uncovered the sacred road leading up from the pool of Siloam up towards the Temple Mount. Doran Spielman said they have excavated the first 350 feet of the road. Not very much of it.

So, in the video, they don't take the road. But follow a Herodians sewer. Leading under the road. Which heads up towards the southwest corner of the Temple Mount?

They acknowledge that it was in those very soers that the last survivors of the siege hid out. Until they were discovered by Roman soldiers. Who broke through the street and jumped down into the sewer and slaughtered? Everyone.

In the sewers, they found pottery full of food. They found remnants of high priestly garments. And they found a Roman 10th Legion sword.

I offer the in expert opinion. That all of those belonged to refugees who were discovered by the Romans. And slaughtered or taken prisoner. Josephus records that high priests were amongst those who fled to the sewer system in order to escape the Romans. So finding a high priests garment Bell. In the sewer near the Temple Mount does not necessarily mean that the Temple Mount was actually the real site of her it's temple. Rather, the remains of the priestly garments could plausibly have come from one of the many priests who fled to the sewers to escape the Romans. But was discovered.

Likewise, the Giants stones, which were clearly tossed off the top of the Temple Mount onto the street at the foot of the Western Wall. By the Romans. May not have been tossed off of. The Herodian Temple. But may have been from the walls of the Fortress Antonio. Which Titus ordered levelled in order to make room for his siege equipment lobbing projectiles 600 feet farther South towards the temple.

In any event archaeologists have found the sacred road leading from the pool of siloam up towards the temple. Wherever that road leads it would presumably lead towards the real sight of the temple. That sacred road may be the most important archaeological dig in. The city of David at this time.


UPDATE -- the sewer is the one described in chapter ten of Bob Cornuke's TEMPLE

 

[parousia70]

Romans 11:25: “For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.”
No use twisting things around. My Father told me about ducks like you.

Again, Fulness , being the opposite of Fall, is not a numeric value or a specific number of Gentiles.
This Biblical "Fulness" (Romans 15:29) HAS ALREADY COME to the Gentiles, and came in the 1st century.

Oh, just pick any of them, there are plenty around.

Name one then!
Name even ONE who is not a gentile convert or a descendant of a Gentile convert to the post-Christian Man made religion of the Talmud.

You keep saying they exist
Yet Can you name even ONE?
Nope.

Perhaps if you can find the Urim and Thummim (Ezra 6) then you could consult them? That would be the only authorized, Biblical way to determine their Hebraic lineage in absence of Physical Genealogical Records.

Let e know what they say when you find them and consult with them, K?

Oh, are you wanting to play the Coke.......soft drink game. You should probably play that game with someone that doesn't know the rules.

Know the rules? Hardly. Seems you just make them up as you go. Which I imagine is quite convenient when you don't want to deal with the facts.

 

[Choose Wisely]

Ok thanks. Will get back with you.

 

[mkgal1]

Ok, it was an honest mistake. Why would you compound that by saying the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. Aren't Muslims Gentiles.

You're making a presumption about what that passage means (and I don't believe it has to do with a time that marks the point where ALL Gentile unbelievers come to Christ).

Romans 11:25 says:

For I do not want you to be ignorant, brothers, of this mystery, so that you may not be wise in yourselves: A hardening in part has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles may come in.

What mystery? I believe Paul is writing about the mystery of Jews and Gentiles being grafted together as one olive tree - as one body (go back to Romans 11:11-31). In Ephesians, Paul describes the mystery as being that which brings all things together under one head, Christ (Eph. 1:9-10). He writes that this mystery is that, through the Gospel, the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel - members of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus (Eph. 3:6). In other words, there are no second class citizens of the kingdom. God's purpose was to take believing Jews and believing Gentiles and not only make them loving brothers, but to actually make them one new man (Eph. 1:15)

The "fullness" - I believe - has to do with the full acceptance and unity between Jew and Gentile (and since the epistles of of Paul, that argued so strongly for equality between Jew and Gentile, were canonized in 64 A.D. - I'd see that as support for that full acceptance.....fullness of the Gentiles).

Eph 1:8-10 ~ He lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. And He has made known to us the mystery of His will according to His good pleasure,which He purposed in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to bring all things in heaven and on earth together in Christ.
​

 

[Choose Wisely]

Again, Fulness , being the opposite of Fall, is not a numeric value or a specific number of Gentiles.
This Biblical "Fulness" (Romans 15:29) HAS ALREADY COME to the Gentiles, and came in the 1st century.

Where are you finding that fulness is the opposite of FALL. The opposite of FALL is RISE or GET UP. Here we see fullness being used as full measure......complete measure....whole measure.

Eph 4 (KJV)
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Eph 4 (NIV)
13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

This is what fullness means...............absoluteness, completeness, entireness, entirety, perfectness, wholeness


Num 18
27 And this your heave offering shall be reckoned unto you, as though it were the corn of the threshingfloor, and as the fulness of the winepress.

In conclusion, it's no wonder you don't understand the Bible. That occurs when you make up the meaning of words.
Israel will be blinded UNTIL THE COMPLETENESS OF THE GENTILES COME IN.

Name one then!
Name even ONE who is not a gentile convert or a descendant of a Gentile convert to the post-Christian Man made religion of the Talmud.

You keep saying they exist
Yet Can you name even ONE?
Nope.

So, now it's the man made religion of the Talmud. I don't know, when I look at what's going on they seem to be following the feast days of the Bible pretty closely. You might not have noticed that because the Babylonian religion has changed some of the dates of the feasts and added a few of it's own.

Perhaps if you can find the Urim and Thummim (Ezra 6) then you could consult them? That would be the only authorized, Biblical way to determine their Hebraic lineage in absence of Physical Genealogical Records.

Ah, Ezra 6, the building of the temple. You do realize that the Jews were allowed to return home after 70 years of captivity. Then they built an altar to the Lord and burnt an offering to the Lord to prepare for the building of the second Temple. I'm sure you are aware of what happened the other day. I know it must trouble you that Israel went and built an altar and burnt a sacrifice to the Lord in preparation of the building of the third temple. What a coincidence, it was 70 years after the rebirth of Israel in 1948. They said there would never be an Israel......oopps. Then the altar to the Lord was built......oopps. Now the Temple is next, and blind will wander around in utter disbelief and confusion.

Know the rules? Hardly. Seems you just make them up as you go. Which I imagine is quite convenient when you don't want to deal with the facts.

LOL.....who doesn't deal with the facts...... You are the one making up the meaning of words.

 

[Choose Wisely]

You're making a presumption about what that passage means (and I don't believe it has to do with a time that marks the point where ALL Gentile unbelievers come to Christ).

Romans 11:25 says:

For I do not want you to be ignorant, brothers, of this mystery, so that you may not be wise in yourselves: A hardening in part has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles may come in.

What mystery? I believe Paul is writing about the mystery of Jews and Gentiles being grafted together as one olive tree - as one body (go back to Romans 11:11-31). In Ephesians, Paul describes the mystery as being that which brings all things together under one head, Christ (Eph. 1:9-10). He writes that this mystery is that, through the Gospel, the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel - members of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus (Eph. 3:6). In other words, there are no second class citizens of the kingdom. God's purpose was to take believing Jews and believing Gentiles and not only make them loving brothers, but to actually make them one new man (Eph. 1:15)

The "fullness" - I believe - has to do with the full acceptance and unity between Jew and Gentile (and since the epistles of of Paul, that argued so strongly for equality between Jew and Gentile, were canonized in 64 A.D. - I'd see that as support for that full acceptance.....fullness of the Gentiles).

Eph 1:8-10 ~ He lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. And He has made known to us the mystery of His will according to His good pleasure,which He purposed in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to bring all things in heaven and on earth together in Christ.
​

He specifically tells us what this mystery is.

this mystery, so that you may not be wise in yourselves: A hardening in part has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles may come in.

What you believe has no basis in truth. Try to believe exactly what it says and quit making things up..........if you really want the truth.

 

[BABerean2]

He specifically tells us what this mystery is.

this mystery, so that you may not be wise in yourselves: A hardening in part has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles may come in.

Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.


(KJV+) ForG1063 I wouldG2309 not,G3756 brethren,G80 that yeG5209 should be ignorantG50 of thisG5124 mystery,G3466 lestG3363 ye should beG5600 wiseG5429 inG3844 your own conceits;G1438 thatG3754 blindnessG4457 inG575 partG3313 is happenedG1096 to Israel,G2474 untilG891 G3757 theG3588 fulnessG4138 of theG3588 GentilesG1484 be come in.G1525

G4138
πλήρωμα
plērōma
play'-ro-mah
From G4137; repletion or completion, that is, (subjectively) what fills (as contents, supplement, copiousness, multitude), or (objectively) what is filled (as container, performance, period): - which is put in to fill up, piece that filled up, fulfilling, full, fulness.
Total KJV occurrences: 17



(KJV+) AndG2532 they shall fallG4098 by the edgeG4750 of the sword,G3162 andG2532 shall be led away captiveG163 intoG1519 allG3956 nations:G1484 andG2532 JerusalemG2419 shall beG2071 trodden downG3961 ofG5259 the Gentiles,G1484 untilG891 the timesG2540 of the GentilesG1484 be fulfilled.G4137

G4137
πληρόω
plēroō
play-ro'-o
From G4134; to make replete, that is, (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.: - accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.
Total KJV occurrences: 90

.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

You're making a presumption about what that passage means (and I don't believe it has to do with a time that marks the point where ALL Gentile unbelievers come to Christ).

Romans 11:25 says:

For I do not want you to be ignorant, brothers, of this mystery, so that you may not be wise in yourselves: A hardening in part has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles may come in.

What mystery? I believe Paul is writing about the mystery of Jews and Gentiles being grafted together as one olive tree - as one body (go back to Romans 11:11-31). In Ephesians, Paul describes the mystery as being that which brings all things together under one head, Christ (Eph. 1:9-10). He writes that this mystery is that, through the Gospel, the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel - members of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus (Eph. 3:6). In other words, there are no second class citizens of the kingdom. God's purpose was to take believing Jews and believing Gentiles and not only make them loving brothers, but to actually make them one new man (Eph. 1:15)

The "fullness" - I believe - has to do with the full acceptance and unity between Jew and Gentile (and since the epistles of of Paul, that argued so strongly for equality between Jew and Gentile, were canonized in 64 A.D. - I'd see that as support for that full acceptance.....fullness of the Gentiles).

Eph 1:8-10 ~ He lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. And He has made known to us the mystery of His will according to His good pleasure,which He purposed in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to bring all things in heaven and on earth together in Christ.
​

Hello mk.......
I just found a thread on that topic if you and others are interested.

Fullness Of The Gentiles -a Poll

Here is an article:
What does "fullness of the Gentiles" mean in Romans 11?
by Dr Taylor Marshall

This is one of the most confusing and debated passages of Scripture:

For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery, lest you be wise in your own estimation, that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; and thus all Israel will be saved.

Romans 11:25-26

Saint Paul put forth a mystery. A partial hardening has happened to ethnic Israel until the &#8220;fullness of the Gentiles. At this point all will be saved.

In other words, Israel plus fullness of Gentiles; equals all Israel
So what is the fullness of the Gentiles?

I think that Saint Paul is referring to Genesis 48:17-19

That final line could be translated as fullness of the Gentiles. It foreshadows how Ephraim (synecdochical for the northern ten tribes) latermixed itself with the nations (Hosea 7:8).

Saint Paul indicates that the Israel/Ephraim identity is mixed with the Gentiles. In fulfillment of the prophecy of Jacob, the sons of of Ephraim have become the ;fullness of the Gentiles; though in a less than noble way. Quite remarkable. For Paul, the only way to restore the lost remnant of Israel is to restore the Gentiles with whom they have mixed. This would explain how the Gentiles have benefited by the received curses of Israel.

It would also explain why Christ told the Apostles to proclaim the Gospel first in Jerusalem, then Judea, then Samaria, and then to the ends of the world. Samaria was the greatest concentration of half-breed; northern Israelites.
The evangelization of Samaria is the fulfillment of the restoration of Israel; whether they be half-breeds or not. It is also noteworthy that both Peter and John specifically came to Samaria in order to impart the Holy Spirit via the sacrament of Confirmation (Acts 8:14-17).

What does "fullness of the Gentiles" mean in Romans 11? - Taylor Marshall

Revelation 6:11 is interesting.
Nations could also mean the 2 nations of Israel [Israel and Judah], and the 12 tribes [which are mentioned in Revelation...]

Here it mentions the Saints who were killed should be resting until the fullness of their fellow servants and brethren were being killed.
Could their be a connection?

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

Revelation 6:11
And a white robe was given to each of them;
and it was said to them that they should rest still little<3398. time<5550>,
until should be fulfilling<4137> also their fellow servants and their brethren, those being about to be being killed as also they were.

5550. chronos khron'-os of uncertain derivation;
a space of time (in general, and thus properly distinguished from 2540,
which designates a fixed or special occasion; and from 165
====================
#4137 is also used in Luke's 70ad Jerusalem/Temple discourse:

Luk 21:
22 “For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled<4137>.
24 “And they shall be falling by the edge of the sword,
and be being led away captive into all nations. [Revelation 13:10]
And Jerusalem will be trampled by Nations
until the times<2540> of the Nations are fulfilled<4137>.

4137. pleroo play-ro'-o from 4134;
to make replete, i.e. (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), ..........

2540. kairos kahee-ros' of uncertain affinity;
an occasion, i.e. set or proper time:--X always, opportunity, (convenient, due) season, (due, short, while) time, a while. Compare 5550.
========================================
#4137 is a form of #4138........

Romans 11:25
For not I am willing ye to being ignorant brothers of the mystery, the-this, that no ye may be beside yourselves wise.
That a hardening/pwrwsiV from part to-the Israel has become until which the filling/plhrwma <4138> of-the Nations/eqnwn may be entering;

4138. pleroma play'-ro-mah from 4137; repletion or completion, i.e. (subjectively) what fills (as contents, supplement, copiousness, multitude), or (objectively) what is filled (as container, performance, period):--which is put in to fill up, piece that filled up, fulfilling, full, fulness.
G4138 πλήρωμα (plērōma) occurs 17 times in 17 verses

Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.


(KJV+) ForG1063 I wouldG2309 not,G3756 brethren,G80 that yeG5209 should be ignorantG50 of thisG5124 mystery,G3466 lestG3363 ye should beG5600 wiseG5429 inG3844 your own conceits;G1438 thatG3754 blindnessG4457 inG575 partG3313 is happenedG1096 to Israel,G2474 untilG891 G3757 theG3588 fulnessG4138 of theG3588 GentilesG1484 be come in.G1525

G4138
πλήρωμα
plērōma
play'-ro-mah
From G4137; repletion or completion, that is, (subjectively) what fills (as contents, supplement, copiousness, multitude), or (objectively) what is filled (as container, performance, period): - which is put in to fill up, piece that filled up, fulfilling, full, fulness.
Total KJV occurrences: 17



(KJV+) AndG2532 they shall fallG4098 by the edgeG4750 of the sword,G3162 andG2532 shall be led away captiveG163 intoG1519 allG3956 nations:G1484 andG2532 JerusalemG2419 shall beG2071 trodden downG3961 ofG5259 the Gentiles,G1484 untilG891 the timesG2540 of the GentilesG1484 be fulfilled.G4137

G4137
πληρόω
plēroō
play-ro'-o
From G4134; to make replete, that is, (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.: - accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.
Total KJV occurrences: 90

.

Yep................

 

[Choose Wisely]

Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.


(KJV+) ForG1063 I wouldG2309 not,G3756 brethren,G80 that yeG5209 should be ignorantG50 of thisG5124 mystery,G3466 lestG3363 ye should beG5600 wiseG5429 inG3844 your own conceits;G1438 thatG3754 blindnessG4457 inG575 partG3313 is happenedG1096 to Israel,G2474 untilG891 G3757 theG3588 fulnessG4138 of theG3588 GentilesG1484 be come in.G1525

G4138
πλήρωμα
plērōma
play'-ro-mah
From G4137; repletion or completion, that is, (subjectively) what fills (as contents, supplement, copiousness, multitude), or (objectively) what is filled (as container, performance, period): - which is put in to fill up, piece that filled up, fulfilling, full, fulness.
Total KJV occurrences: 17



(KJV+) AndG2532 they shall fallG4098 by the edgeG4750 of the sword,G3162 andG2532 shall be led away captiveG163 intoG1519 allG3956 nations:G1484 andG2532 JerusalemG2419 shall beG2071 trodden downG3961 ofG5259 the Gentiles,G1484 untilG891 the timesG2540 of the GentilesG1484 be fulfilled.G4137

G4137
πληρόω
plēroō
play-ro'-o
From G4134; to make replete, that is, (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.: - accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.
Total KJV occurrences: 90

.

LOL. That was awesome. Now top it off with an unrelated video.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

LOL. That was awesome. Now top it off with an unrelated video.

All that red made my eyes bloodshot............

 

[Choose Wisely]

Fullness............

 

[BABerean2]

All that red made my eyes bloodshot............

The blood is supposed to cover your whole body, instead of just your eyes...

.

 

[BABerean2]

LOL. That was awesome.

There you go laughing at the words of Jesus again, and now laughing at the words of the Apostle Paul also.


1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

"LOL" is often the response we get when someone cannot defend their doctrine.
It has become quite common on this forum.

.

 

[Residential Bob]

Yes it absolutely has. Gentile Fulness came in by the end of Paul's Ministry.

That soon? Jesus said that Jerusalem would be trampled under foot until the times of the Gentiles were fulfilled (Lk 21:24). Jerusalem was lain desolate three years or so after Paul died. The age of the Gentiles began three years or so after Paul died.

The Jewish age ended when the temple fell, when the law no longer held Israel captive, as Paul foretells (Rm 11:25). Christianity, then, could no longer be strictly a Jewish movement; it would become universally accepted. The times of the Gentiles came shortly after Paul's ministry.

But I'm no theologian; maybe I'm missing something.

 

[BABerean2]

That soon? Jesus said that Jerusalem would be trampled under foot until the times of the Gentiles were fulfilled (Lk 21:24). Jerusalem was lain desolate three years or so after Paul died. The age of the Gentiles began three years or so after Paul died.

The Jewish age ended when the temple fell, when the law no longer held Israel captive, as Paul foretells (Rm 11:25). Christianity, then, could no longer be strictly a Jewish movement; it would become universally accepted. The times of the Gentiles came shortly after Paul's ministry.

But I'm no theologian; maybe I'm missing something.

The Gospel was taken to the Gentiles after the passage below.
This began the times of the Gentiles.

Act 28:17 And it came to pass, that after three days Paul called the chief of the Jews together: and when they were come together, he said unto them, Men and brethren, though I have committed nothing against the people, or customs of our fathers, yet was I delivered prisoner from Jerusalem into the hands of the Romans.
Act 28:18 Who, when they had examined me, would have let me go, because there was no cause of death in me.
Act 28:19 But when the Jews spake against it, I was constrained to appeal unto Caesar; not that I had ought to accuse my nation of.
Act 28:20 For this cause therefore have I called for you, to see you, and to speak with you: because that for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.
Act 28:21 And they said unto him, We neither received letters out of Judaea concerning thee, neither any of the brethren that came shewed or spake any harm of thee.
Act 28:22 But we desire to hear of thee what thou thinkest: for as concerning this sect, we know that every where it is spoken against.
Act 28:23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
Act 28:24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.
Act 28:25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
Act 28:26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
Act 28:27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Act 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.


In Matthew 10:5-7 Jesus had commanded that the Gospel be taken only to Israel during that time period.

In the passage above Paul preached the Gospel specifically to the Jews, before he took the Gospel to the Gentiles.

.

 

[Choose Wisely]

There you go laughing at the words of Jesus again, and now laughing at the words of the Apostle Paul also.


1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

"LOL" is often the response we get when someone cannot defend their doctrine.
It has become quite common on this forum.

.

LOL- I have to imagine that you get more than your share. You already know from your past experience that I can disassemble all things you post because the things you use against those that believe in a pre tribulation rapture do not work on what I believe. As I stated earlier and as you already know there is a difference between the fullness of the Gentiles and the times of the Gentiles.........and yet here you are trying to confuse the issue so that others will be led astray. I'm certainly not laughing at the scripture or Paul, I am laughing at your FEEBLE attempt to confuse the issue.

I find it particularly amusing that you don't think the Jews know where their Temple is supposed to be built. Of course the reason you have to make this case is because there is STILL ONE STONE UPON ANOTHER on the Temple mount. The just annihilates all your confused beliefs. You must be losing lots of sleep now that the altar has been built which occurs just before the Temple is rebuilt. A wise man would be watching and waiting as the Lord instructed. And yet it's all going to happen and here you'll sit in your utter confusion. That, I'm not going to laugh about.