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Is a 3rd future Temple needed to fulfill Bible prophecy?

Is a future Temple in Jerusalem needed to fulfill Bible prophecy?


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parousia70

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In zech 12 we see this

We see what?
Where are the Urim and Thummim Brian?

Do you know?
Does anyone?

Does the scripture mandating their use as divination devices for genealogic determination matter anymore?

Should we get out a sharpie and just redact it from our bibles?
 
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RACarvalho

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If I may, why would a Christian usher in the anti-Christ and lead 1/3 of the Jews to their death? If God has this plan, which I do not think He does, why would he need help and where in scripture did Jesus give a mandate to deceive the Jewish people rather than lead them to the truth? These are the questions Futurists need to not only answer but need to confirm that this is the Will of the Father.
Blessings
Believe in Futurism is to ignore 1500 years of fulfilled prophecy in History.
There is no way around it.
If you believe that in the statue of Nabucodonossor dream the gold is Babylon, the silver is Mede/Persia, the bronze is Greece and the iron is Rome (which is a Historicist interpretation), then the papacy is the antichrist foretold by Daniel, Paul and John and History proves it.
 
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mkgal1

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Keras said:
Ezekiel 40-48 is all about the time before Jesus Returns, when all the faithful Christians will occupy all of the holy Land.

Ezekiel 43:19 - At that time, the Levitical priests of the family of Zadok, who minister before me, are to be given a young bull for a sin offering, says the Sovereign LORD.

Quoting Steve Gregg:
  • In Ezekiel’s vision, the Levites and Aaronic priesthood are seen in their former places of service. According to the New Testament, there has been a change of the priesthood (Heb. 7:12). The Jewish priesthood has been replaced by a different priesthood (1 Pet. 2:5) and a non-Aaronic high priest (Jesus). This modification will not be reversed, for Christ is said to be “a priest forever, after the order of Melchizedek” (Ps. 110:4; Heb. 7:17, 21).

Whether or not the temple had ever actually been rebuilt, the new revelation in Christ encourages us to see its pattern as having been fulfilled in Jesus Christ Himself, who is the final atoning sacrifice and the eternal high priest of God’s people.

—Steve Gregg

Steve Gregg is the author of Revelation: Four Views: A Parallel Commentary, and host of the radio show The Narrow Path
 
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RACarvalho

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In zech 12 we see this

Not sure about your Jesuit creating a futurist point of view as they Catholic Church calls the belief in the future millennium a heresy. The belief that these things are coming in an established timeline is derived from a literal reading of the texts and comparing them to come up with a timeline. No matter who and when it was 1st presented the case for it is based on the texts and not the who and when. There are many in the early church who held these views and many who opposed. this discussion has been going on a long time.
Look for Jesuit Francisco Ribera and his 500 pages long “In Sacrum Beati Ioannis Apostoli, & Evangelistiae Apocalypsin Commentarij”....
What millennium believe have to do with Futurism?
you are making confusion between two different subjects - Fururist interpretation of Revelation and the Millenial...
 
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parousia70

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The answer is a yes, a third temple is necessary, but it is likely to be downsized in the interim to get the animal sacrifices and other temple observances going as quickly as possible.

And a "downsized" temple Built by modern-day Christ Rejectors, that St. John says "Do NOT have the father" will be "The Temple of God"..... How?
 
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mkgal1

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ISTM that unless a person reads all through the Bible - with the focus on how God showed His presence to His people (from the Ark of the Covenant to the days of Jesus) - an important theme is missed. I appreciate how Brian Zahnd puts it:

Quoting Brian Zahnd----->Eventually David becomes the great king of Israel. David, having established his capital in Jerusalem, wanted to build a temple for the God of Israel. But God declined David’s offer to build a house for him, saying,

“You have shed much blood and have waged great wars; you shall not build a house to my name, because you have shed so much blood in my sight on the earth.”
(1 Chronicles 22:8)

David as a man of violence could not build the house of God. But God made this enormously significant promise to David:

“You have shed much blood and have waged great wars; you shall not build a house to my name, because you have shed so much blood in my sight on the earth.”
(1 Chronicles 22:8)

David as a man of violence could not build the house of God. But God made this enormously significant promise to David:


A son shall be born to you; he shall be a man of peace. I will give him peace from all his enemies on every side; for his name shall be Solomon (peaceful), and I will give peace and quiet to Israel in his days. He shall build a house for my name. He shall be a son to me, and I will be a father to him, and I will establish his royal throne in Israel forever. (1 Chronicles 22:9–10)

At first glance it would seem that God’s promise to David—that he would have a peaceful son who would reign as king and build the house of the Lord—is fulfilled in King Solomon. But is it? Granted, Solomon built a temple that would be identified as the temple of Yahweh for four centuries, and in retrospect we can see Solomon’s temple prefiguring something better to come. But is that all Solomon built? No.

Solomon built a harem for his seven hundred wives and three hundred concubines.

Solomon built temples to the foreign gods worshiped by his pagan wives.

Solomon built a professional standing army maintained by heavy taxation.

Solomon built all this with conscripted slave labor, including thirty thousand Hebrew slaves!

In a word, Solomon built…Egypt!

[snip]

By the time Jesus was born the temple Solomon built had been destroyed, then rebuilt by Zerubbabel, and then greatly expanded by Herod the Great. But Jesus held little regard for Herod’s temple. He famously protested what the temple had become by borrowing the words of Jeremiah who had predicted the destruction of the first temple, saying: “Has this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your sight?” (Jeremiah 7:11) When the Jerusalem aristocracy objected to Jesus’ denunciation of their magnificent temple, they asked Jesus what sign he would show them to justify his actions. Jesus’ cryptic reply and John’s commentary are enormously important.

“The Jews then said to him, ‘What sign can you show us for doing this?’ Jesus answered them, ‘Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.’ The Jews then said, ‘This temple has been under construction for forty-six years, and will you raise it up in three days?’ But he was speaking of the temple of his body. After he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this; and they believed the scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.” (John 2:18–22)

Jesus explicitly predicted the destruction of the temple on several occasions. (Matthew 24:1–3; Luke 19:41–44; 21:20–24) But what Jesus is doing here is more subtle and more significant than that. Jesus is associating the destruction of the present temple and the construction of a new temple with his own death and resurrection. More importantly, in some mysterious way this new temple will be his body. And in case you haven’t realized it, we have discovered the true son of David, the true man of peace, the one who builds the true temple. Of course, it’s Jesus!~God Doesn't Build His House By Violence - Brian Zahnd
 
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Erik Nelson

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Believe in Futurism is to ignore 1500 years of fulfilled prophecy in History.
There is no way around it.
If you believe that in the statue of Nabucodonossor dream the gold is Babylon, the silver is Mede/Persia, the bronze is Greece and the iron is Rome (which is a Historicist interpretation), then the papacy is the antichrist foretold by Daniel, Paul and John and History proves it.
or... The church is the rock of Christ built on saint Peter's confession of faith, that felled the pagan statue
 
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Forgiven
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What would you do in the new temple? There is no longer any need to offer a sacrifice, Jesus has done that once and for all. The Ark of the Covenant is no longer required. Jesus is our High Priest and has no need of a temple here on earth. Jesus is our temple. So what would be the purpose? I must be missing something but I cant think of what it might be at the moment.
Finally someone that's gets it. I totally agree with your conclusion. You are missing something.
 
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Forgiven
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OK I may have been wrong about the location, my area of study is Theology not Archeology so I will leave it up to the experts in that area to determine the correct location of the Temple. Has anyone told the Jews that they are praying in the wrong place?
Yeah the Jews and all the archeologists of the world don't know where the temple used to be located. But don't worry some guy on the internet has figured it out. I don't think he'll have any problem convincing the archeologist and the Jews themselves that they are in the wrong place. I think that solar flares are responsible for this confusion. Good thing we have that internet guy with all the answers.
 
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Erik Nelson

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the temple was torn all the way 100% down below the original, Herodian foundations, in 363 AD under emperor Julian the apostate
-----
Rebuilding the Jewish Temple, in 363 A.D.
-----

Julian himself wrote a letter to the body or community of the Jews... In it he declares them free from all exactions and taxes...and promises, after his Persian expedition, when their temple should be rebuilt, to make Jerusalem his residence, and to offer up his joint prayers together with them.

On July 19th, 362 A.D., Julian left Constantinople and arrived in Antioch to prepare for the invasion of Persia... he met with "the chiefs of the Jews." He assembled the chief among the Jews, and asked them why they offered no bloody sacrifices, since they were prescribed by their law. They replied, that they could not offer any but in the temple, which then lay in ruins.. He promised: "I shall endeavor with the utmost zeal to set up the Temple of the Most High God." Whereupon he commanded them to repair to Jerusalem, rebuild their temple, and re-establish their ancient worship, promising them his concurrence towards carrying on the work.

The restoration of the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem would, in Julian's opinion, defeat the Christian argument of replacement theology - that the Church was the true Israel, and that the Temple's destruction and the subsequent exile was the just punishment suffered by the Jewish people for the Crucifixion. The Temple's restoration, Julian figured, would persuade Christian converts that God still favored the Jewish people. Also, As an army commander, embarking on a war against a formidable Persian enemy, Julian could also expect that the Jews of Mesopotamia would assist his legions.

The Jews received this warrant to rebuild their Temple with inexpressible joy, and were so elated with it, that, flocking from all parts to Jerusalem, they began insolently to scorn and triumph over the Christians, threatening to make them feel as fatal effects of their severity, as they themselves had heretofore from the Roman powers.

In his "Four Letters" addressed to the Jewish people, Julian recognized their dire situation and appealed to them to join him in his campaign... Julian virtually ordered them to do so (rebuild the temple), and perhaps, upset by their initial hesitation, appointed Alypius, a pagan native of Antioch and his best friend, to supervise the work...

placing at their head his intimate friend Alypius, who had formerly been Pro-prefect of Britain; charging him to make them labor in this great work without ceasing, and to spare no expense.

The Jews were doubtless divided between those who believed that Julian was a savior and those who remembered Rabbi Simon Ben Eliezer's warning against the youthful enthusiasm of the second generation after the Bar Kochba disaster: "If children tell you: 'Go, build the Temple - do not listen to them.'"

All things were in readiness...

But the good bishop St. Cyril, lately returned from exile, beheld all these mighty preparations without any concern, relying on the infallible truth of the scripture prophecies:

as,
that the desolation of the Jewish temple should last till the end;
and that one stone should not be left on another;


And being full of the spirit of God, Cyril foretold, with the greatest confidence, that the Jews, so far from being able to rebuild their ruined temple, would be the instruments whereby that prophecy of Christ would be still more fully accomplished than it had been hitherto, and that they would not be able to put one stone upon another, and the event justified the prediction.

Till then the foundations and some ruins of the walls of the temple subsisted, as appears from St. Cyril: and Eusebius says, the inhabitants still carried away the stones for their private buildings. These ruins the Jews first demolished with their own hands, thus concurring to the accomplishment of our Saviour's prediction.

Then they began to dig the new foundation, in which work many thousands were employed. But what they had thrown up in the day was, by repeated earthquakes, the night following cast back again into the trench. "And when Alypius the next day earnestly pressed on the work, with the assistance of the governor of the province, there issued," says Ammianus, "'such horrible balls of fire out of the earth near the foundations,' which rendered the place, from time to time, inaccessible to the scorched and blasted workmen... Alypius thought proper to give over the enterprise."
 
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Forgiven
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They don't even know who they themselves are!
They HAVE NO IDEA What tribe they are from, who is a descendant of Jacob and who isnt, who is descended from gentile converts and who isnt... they HAVE NO CLUE.

Of course they don't know where their own temple is supposed to be.
It would be Malarky to insist they do.

They don't even know their own tribe.
So they don't know their own tribe and that's a problem because????????

Does God know their tribe?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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OK I may have been wrong about the location, my area of study is Theology not Archeology so I will leave it up to the experts in that area to determine the correct location of the Temple. Has anyone told the Jews that they are praying in the wrong place?
I don't think the Jews really care......why should we?
They need Jesus..............
 
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parousia70

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So they don't know their own tribe and that's a problem because????????
Because Ezra 2:59-62 says it's a problem.
You are of course free to disagree with scripture on the matter.

59 And these were the ones who came up from Tel Melah, Tel Harsha, Cherub, Addan, and Immer; but they could not identify their father’s house or their genealogy, whether they were of Israel: 60 the sons of Delaiah, the sons of Tobiah, and the sons of Nekoda, six hundred and fifty-two; 61 and of the sons of the priests: the sons of Habaiah, the sons of Koz, and the sons of Barzillai, who took a wife of the daughters of Barzillai the Gileadite, and was called by their name. 62 These sought their listing among those who were registered by genealogy, but they were not found; therefore they were excluded from the priesthood as defiled.

Does God know their Tribe
Would that have been an acceptable answer from the folks seeking inclusion above?

Scripture is CLEAR:
62 These sought their listing among those who were registered by genealogy, but they were not found; therefore they were excluded from the priesthood as defiled.

Why do you believe these were excluded as defiled because they could not prove their genealogy?

If God knew what tribe they were from why were they EXCLUDED as DEFILED?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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In a word, Solomon built…Egypt!
He famously protested what the temple had become by borrowing the words of Jeremiah who had predicted the destruction of the first temple, saying: “Has this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your sight? (Jeremiah 7:11)​
:amen:
One of my larger studies concerns Jesus, the whip and chasing out the sellers/merchants in the Temple in John 2/
[I am going to start a thread on this soon. Just got some more refining on it to do]

Notice first this passage in Zech 14 concerning "canaanite":

Zechariah 14:
21 And every caldron in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be Holy unto Yahweh of hosts,—So shall all who are offering sacrifice, come in, and take of them, and boil therein,—
Neither shall there be a Canaanite/merchant<3669> any more in the House of Yahweh of hosts, in that day. [Revelation 18:11]


The reason there would never be another one is that House is because it would be decimated in 70ad!

Matthew 23
37 - “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!
38 Behold! the House of ye is being left desolate/a wilderness<2048>

Luke 13:
34 - “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!
35 Behold! the House of ye is being left desolate/a wilderness<2048>,

=============================
This is what was going on when Jesus entered the Temple shortly after starting His ministry?
Weren't these a type of "canaanite" Jesus was expelling from the Temple?

John 2: [Revelation 18:11]
14 and He found in the Temple those selling oxen and sheep and doves, and the money-changers sitting,

15 and having made a whip of small cords, He put all forth out of the temple, also the sheep, and the oxen;
and of the money-changers he poured out the coins, and the 15]he overthrew,
[Nahum 3:2/Reve 18:11-13]
================
If you look at Nahum 3, it also describes a "sound of a whip":

Nahum 3:2 [John 2:14-15]
A sound of a Whip, and sound of a quaking wheel, and horse galloping, and chariot leaping. A horseman mounting. And blazing sword, and flashing spear, and many wounded and mass of corpses and there is no end to bodies. [Isaiah 28 "scourge"]
==============
In Revelation, the word normally rendered "plague" should be rendered "stripes/blows":

Revelation 15:1
And I perceived another sign in the heaven, great and marvelous. Seven Messengers having seven blows/stripes<4127> the last,
that in them is finished the fury of the God.

====================
Now look at Revelation 18 concerning the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple.

Merchants, beasts and sheep are mentioned, just as in John 2:14!

In addition, most all the things mentioned in this passage were used in the OT Temple/Santuary services.


Revelation 18: [John 2:14]
11 And the merchants of the land are lamenting and are mourning over Her,
that no one is buying their cargo any longer.

13 and cinnamon and incenses and attars and frankincense
and wine and oil and flour and grain
and beasts and sheep

and of horses and of chariots and of bodies and souls of men.
[Nahum 3:2/John 2:14]

John 2: [Revelation 18:11]
14 and He found in the Temple those selling oxen and sheep and doves, and the money-changers sitting,
 
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Marilyn C

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But How is it GOD's temple?

How is the Dome of the Rock NOT God's Temple?
Why wouldn't the the Dome qualify?

Hi parousia,

Good point. Yes the Dome of the Rock is also a `naos` however God`s word says that the `naos,` that the anti-Christ uses for his abomination, is an affront to the Jews.

`Therefore when you see the `abomination of desolation` spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place, (whoever reads, let him understand) then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains...` (Matt. 24: 15 & 16)

The `holy place` concerns the Jews and not the Gentiles.

Marilyn.
 
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Because Ezra 2:59-62 says it's a problem.
You are of course free to disagree with scripture on the matter.


I'll just stick to disagreeing with your application of scripture.



Scripture is CLEAR:
62 These sought their listing among those who were registered by genealogy, but they were not found; therefore they were excluded from the priesthood as defiled.

Why do you believe these were excluded as defiled because they could not prove their genealogy?
Ezra 2
59 And these were they which went up from Telmelah, Telharsa, Cherub, Addan, and Immer:but they could not shew their father's house, and their seed, whether they were of Israel:

So you're saying since Gentiles cannot show their fathers house and their seed as being of Israel then they can't be Israel. Yep, scripture is clear.

If God knew what tribe they were from why were they EXCLUDED as DEFILED?
So you're saying that God does not know what tribe they are from.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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disciple Clint

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Finally someone that's gets it. I totally agree with your conclusion. You are missing something.
OK so in your opinion, and you seem to have plenty of that, what do you think I am missing.
 
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parousia70

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So you're saying since Gentiles cannot show their fathers house and their seed as being of Israel then they can't be Israel. Yep, scripture is clear.
Yep, Just like the Gentiles of Israel and elsewhere who call themselves Jews today but have no evidence of tribal lineage.
These are the same as those in Ezra 2

I think you're starting to get it!

So you're saying that God does not know what tribe they are from.

I'm saying God knows they are not from ANY tribe. God KNOWS They are Gentile converts, and descendants of Gentile converts to the Post Christian, MAN MADE religion of The Babylonian Talmud and have no relationship to the pre desolation Hebrew population, nor belong to ANY covenant relationship with the God of Abraham, Issaic, and Jacob.

That is why God Inspired Ezra 2 to be written, so we would know that without Genealogical records, ANY and all claimants MUST be EXCLUDED as DEFILED.

That is what God Knows, and He was gracious enough to tell us too, so we would not be deceived by false claimants the way you seem to be.
 
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Yep, Just like the Gentiles of Israel and elsewhere who call themselves Jews today but have no evidence of tribal lineage.
These are the same as those in Ezra 2

I think you're starting to get it!
Yeah I get it, the Gentiles cannot be Israel
I'm saying God knows they are not from ANY tribe. God KNOWS They are Gentile converts, and descendants of Gentile converts to the Post Christian, MAN MADE religion of The Babylonian Talmud and have no relationship to the pre desolation Hebrew population, nor belong to ANY covenant relationship with the God of Abraham, Issaic, and Jacob.

That is why God Inspired Ezra 2 to be written, so we would know that without Genealogical records, ANY and all claimants MUST be EXCLUDED as DEFILED.

That is what God Knows, and He was gracious enough to tell us too, so we would not be deceived by false claimants the way you seem to be.
Yep, he told us the Gentiles cannot be Israel.
 
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