Faith and works not that hard to figure out.

[redleghunter]

Really it’s not that hard to figure out.

Ephesians 2: NASB
8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. (NASB)

We have to become His workmanship.

Marty and Frank discuss it.

 

[Lukaris]

St. Paul also testified to Agrippa in Acts of the Apostles 26:19-20.

 

[redleghunter]

St. Paul also testified to Agrippa in Acts of the Apostles 26:19-20.

That sure looks like saving faith leading to repentance and salvation. Follows the order of things in Ephesians 2:8-10

 

[Varangian Christian]

I think the only reason people have a hard time with it is because of 500+ years of animosity against Rome. What one believes many times is influenced by their subconscious bias ingrained in them by their culture and ancestors.

Also, I never understood how people who believe in faith alone could call others who believed in faith+works heretics. Believing in the importance of works doesn't strip someone of their faith, they aren't mutually exclusive. Its just like the people who believe in original sin but don't baptize babies, it seems to me the train of thought veered off the tracks at some point, lol.

 

[redleghunter]

Also, I never understood how people who believe in faith alone could call others who believed in faith+works heretics.

When we add anything of our merit to Grace it is no longer Grace.

Romans 11: NASB
6But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

 

[Varangian Christian]

When we add anything of our merit to Grace it is no longer Grace.

Romans 11: NASB
6But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Salvation Is Indeed By Grace
As I said, 500+ years in rivalry with Rome has messed up western Christianity.

 

[redleghunter]

Salvation Is Indeed By Grace
As I said, 500+ years in rivalry with Rome has messed up western Christianity.

It hasn’t been pretty. But the Reformation was a course correction long overdue. And it should not stop there, meaning reform. In fact the call is Semper Reformda always reforming.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Can someone please explain what Jesus meant by the terms "good" and "evil" in the following?

John 5:28-29 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

 

[redleghunter]

Can someone please explain what Jesus meant by the terms "good" and "evil" in the following?

John 5:28-29 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

Jesus also said “Only God is good.”

And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone (Mark 10:18).

We need to do the math. What it means is we need the Righteousness of God through Jesus Christ which is a gift (Romans 5:17)

 

[Kenny'sID]

Salvation Is Indeed By Grace

Of course it is, and the loss of salvation is by doing evil, and not good.

Here is one of a few very clear and to the point lists from the bible that says what not to do and what happens if we do.

1 Cor 6:9-10 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor homosexual offenders, nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were.

How can the bible be more clear that things are expected of us? How does "Faith Only" deal with scripture like that any other way than believing exactly what it says?

 

[Varangian Christian]

Can someone please explain what Jesus meant by the terms "good" and "evil" in the following?

John 5:28-29 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

It means exactly what it says.

“And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.” - Revelation 20:12

While the Christian will not be damned for his sins there will be different levels of glory in heaven. The wicked also will definitely be judged according to what they have done.

It hasn’t been pretty. But the Reformation was a course correction long overdue. And it should not stop there, meaning reform. In fact the call is Semper Reformda always reforming.

The reformation corrected many things but also threw out many others and made themselves complete schismatics.

"Always reforming"? I would rather be in the Church that does not change and against which the gates of Hell shall not prevail.

 

[redleghunter]

Of course it is, and the loss of salvation is by doing evil, and not good.

Here is one of a few very clear and to the point lists from the bible that says what not to do and what happens if we do.

1 Cor 6:9-10 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor homosexual offenders, nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were.

How can the bible be more clear that things are expected of us? How does "Faith Only" deal with scripture like that any other way than believing exactly what it says?

Does God’s Grace stop at Justification?

 

[redleghunter]

How can the bible be more clear that things are expected of us? How does "Faith Only" deal with scripture like that any other way than believing exactly what it says?

Do you mean the fruits of being in Christ?

 

[redleghunter]

It means exactly what it says.

“And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.” - Revelation 20:12

While the Christian will not be damned for his sins there will be different levels of glory in heaven. The wicked also will definitely be judged according to what they have done.



The reformation corrected many things but also threw out many others and made themselves complete schismatics.

"Always reforming"? I would rather be in the Church that does not change and against which the gates of Hell shall not prevail.

Always reforming does not mean tossing out the good with the bad. Luther truly tried to address the corruption of the hierarchy first.

 

[Varangian Christian]

Always reforming does not mean tossing out the good with the bad. Luther truly tried to address the corruption of the hierarchy first.

The good has already been tossed out despite anyone's efforts. Protestantism needs no more reforms, it needs to cease existing as all join the true Church.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Jesus also said “Only God is good.”

And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone (Mark 10:18).

We need to do the math. What it means is we need the Righteousness of God through Jesus Christ which is a gift (Romans 5:17)

The actual verse states "truly good" and Jesus was only making a point that we aren't/can't be 100% good. But clearly from what Jesus says right there in ,John 5:28-29 he expects us to be as good as good goes, I mean if he didn't, why would he say it? a question you will need to answer.

The verse is in the bible so it can't be ignored so again what does "good" mean to you?

 

[redleghunter]

The good has already been tossed out despite anyone's efforts. Protestantism needs no more reforms, it needs to cease existing as all join the true Church.

I guess you are Roman Catholic.

 

[ripple the car]

The Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and Assyrian Church of the East, though disagreeing on Christology, Mariology, ecclesiology, and what Church history is and looks like, all agree that our salvation is a journey of faith and works in Christ. That must mean something. Even 400 years in, they all agreed on this, and still do. Just saying.

 

[Kenny'sID]

The good has already been tossed out despite anyone's efforts. Protestantism needs no more reforms, it needs to cease existing as all join the true Church.

Do you really think we can just toss out what Christ clearly said there about being good...just like that? If so. why?

 

[redleghunter]

The actual verse states "truly good" and Jesus was only making a point the we aren't/can't be 100% good. But clearly from what Jesus says right there in ,John 5:28-29 he expects us to be as good as good goes, I mean if he didn't, why would he say it? a question you will need to answer.

The verse is in the bible so it can't be ignored so again what does "good" mean to you?

So mostly good? Let’s test that with the high bar Jesus set at the Sermon on the Mount:

Matthew 5: NASB
48“Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect (NASB)

The standard for entry into the Kingdom of God is perfection as our Heavenly Father is perfect.

Only Jesus Christ meets this standard. Right back to Romans chapter 5.