Why would the Devil punish sinners?

[ximmix]

Partially correct, ximmix. Partially incorrect, as well.

Ok, care to be more specific..?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Ok, care to be more specific..?

Sure. By this I mean that you're correct to say that Christians don't fear the Devil in a spiritual kind of way. However, I do, personally, 'fear' the Devil in the sense that I perceive him as a presence of sorts in our world that works to deceive, ruin and eventually destroy human beings and most particularly separate them from the God who would offer to us, and eventually give, Eternal Life through the provision that comes by faith in Jesus Christ.

So, while you're correct on one point, you're incorrect that the Devil is somehow irrelevant. No, he's definitely relevant if he's doing the very things that God predicted he'd do in the world, and then some.

 

[ximmix]

Sure. By this I mean that you're correct to say that Christians don't fear the Devil in a spiritual kind of way. However, I do, personally, 'fear' the Devil in the sense that I perceive him as a presence of sorts in our world that works to deceive, ruin and eventually destroy human beings and most particularly separate them from the God who would offer to us, and eventually give, Eternal Life through the provision that comes by faith in Jesus Christ.

So, while you're correct on one point, you're incorrect that the Devil is somehow irrelevant. No, he's definitely relevant if he's doing the very things that God predicted he'd do in the world, and then some.

Do you think of the Devil as a physical being or as a metaphore for evil?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Do you think of the Devil as a physical being or as a metaphore for evil?

Both or either. I say both or either because, let's face it, the Biblical writers don't really give us a clear, expansive, comprehensive description of the ontology of "the Devil." So, whether 'he' is a personal, fallen angel of singular potency, or instead some kind of metaphor for the dynamic collectively of historical human evil in the world........................this 'Devil' is real either way. And he will destroy us if we let him.

 

[ximmix]

Both or either. I say both or either because, let's face it, the Biblical writers don't really give us a clear, expansive, comprehensive description of the ontology of "the Devil." So, whether 'he' is a personal, fallen angel of singular potency, or instead some kind of metaphor for the dynamic collectively of historical human evil in the world........................this 'Devil' is real either way. And he will destroy us if we let him.

Isn't there a big difference, either an intelligent being or some collective evil of mankind..?

 

[eleos1954]

If God sends sinners to Hell to be punished, what incentive does the Devil have to punish them? I would think the Devil would treat sinners very well...

The devils MO is to keep people from coming to God and/or lead people away from God and does this by ANY WAY he can. He's not picky at all how he does this. He does this sometimes blatantly and viciously and/or very very deceptively.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Isn't there a big difference, either an intelligent being or some collective evil of mankind..?

Sure, there's a difference. But if the Bible is true and the depicted spiritual effects upon people are 'real' in some way so as to destroy people's saving relationship with God in Christ, then I don't see much difference or relevance in there being a personal Devil versus a Collective political spiritual force that likewise does the same or similar kind of thing.

Personally, I do lean more toward the idea that the Devil is a personal being of evil rather than a metaphorical personification of diabolically inclined human forces. But either way, if the Evil is real, then you and I have something to defend ourselves against, don't we?

 

[Sabertooth]

Isn't there a big difference, either an intelligent being or some collective evil of mankind..?

That distinction is not broadly held in Christianity. He is more commonly held to be the fallen angel [Lucifer] and his angelic followers. Jesus attested to this in Matthew 25:41, among other verses.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

You must be blissfully happy then!

Well that insult came out of the blue.

 

[Par5]

Well that insult came out of the blue.

If I misconstrued your post then I apologize. I took it to mean you thought my lack of belief was caused by ignorance. I can be a bit tetchy at times.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

If I misconstrued your post then I apologize. I took it to mean you thought my lack of belief was caused by ignorance. I can be a bit tetchy at times.

I apologize but I did not make the original comment about ignorance being bliss. I believe what the other person was trying to say is that people tend to be happier remaining ignorant of the truth rather than having to confront reality. I guess you could argue that if there is no god/gods, theists would rather believe there is a god then accept the harsh realization that there is nothing but the now. In this case, "ignorance is bliss" for the theist. Also, it is important to note that ignorance is not a direct reflection of intelligence. For example, just because anastrophysicist are ignorant of the difference between a plumber's wrench and an allen wrench in no way means they are stupid.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

It's actually respect of His position and power.

Might makes right?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

It isn't until you have accepted Jesus Christ as your savior and are filled with the Holy Spirit will you ever truly know how empty and meaningless your life is at this moment

How nice of you.

Let's turn that mega insult around:

"It isn't until you accept that you are putting superstition and false religious beliefs at the center of your life that you'll realise how meaningless and empty your life is at this moment"

Just saying...I hope you don't take any offense.

It's kind of hard not to take offence when somebody tells you that your life is empty and meaningless...

So yes, your life now, compared to how rich and fulfilling it could be is pretty hellish.

Right back at ya.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Except now, you have the opportunity to choose otherwise. And there is Grace on this side of Eternity.

Belief, is not a matter of trivial decisions.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Agreed. I will add that one of the greatest suffering that you will incur is not the pain and fire. Rather, it is complete and utter despair knowing that there is absolutely no hope.

To that, I'ld say that false hope, isn't actually hope.

This is basicly the silly argument of "I believe in god, because it's comfortable".

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I believe people who are atheists or who are otherwise are not God's children have traded God and the things of God for worldly pleasures.

This life, as sucky as it is, is what you asked for, therefore its your version of heaven. You have traded that which is better, so you can have that which is worse.

I don't think my life is sucky at all.
I think a life that is entrenched in superstition is sucky.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

@ximmix As an atheist, have you ever asked yourself what the meaning of all this is? Life in general.

Sure. And I found that the question is invalid. It's like asking what the taste of purple is.
It makes unfounded assumptions. Before one can ask WHAT the meaning of life is, one would have to establish that there IS meaning in the first place.

Everything I know about the world, informs me that there isn't any cosmic meaning to the existance of life. Does that mean that there is no such cosmic meaning? No. But it does mean that I currently have no reason at all to believe that there is. Actually, everything I know about reality is actually giving me reasons to believe the exact opposite.

None of this prevents me from finding meaning in MY life though.
We impose meaning on our own lives.

What if I were to tell you that there could be more for you rather than just mere temporary existence?

You'ld sound exactly like all other believers - including the many many many believers of religions that you aren't buying into either.

I'ld ask you to demonstrate the truth of your claims.
And from experience, I know by know that you'll be unable to do that.
You'll end up with "you just gotta have faith".

Well.... I don't.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Sure. By this I mean that you're correct to say that Christians don't fear the Devil in a spiritual kind of way. However, I do, personally, 'fear' the Devil in the sense that I perceive him as a presence of sorts in our world that works to deceive, ruin and eventually destroy human beings and most particularly separate them from the God who would offer to us, and eventually give, Eternal Life through the provision that comes by faith in Jesus Christ.

So, while you're correct on one point, you're incorrect that the Devil is somehow irrelevant. No, he's definitely relevant if he's doing the very things that God predicted he'd do in the world, and then some.

Here's a question.....

If the devil is banished to hell.... what's he doing on earth?
Is hell a place that you can just leave whenever you feel like it?

Couldn't the omnipotent creator of everything create a "prison" from which there is no escape?
What does it say about this creator if he allows the very embodiment of evil to mess around with his creation, with his children?

This is kind of the equivalent of convicting a serial pedophile to a "prison" that isn't locked up, with no guards and which is build right next to a school.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The devils MO is to keep people from coming to God and/or lead people away from God and does this by ANY WAY he can. He's not picky at all how he does this. He does this sometimes blatantly and viciously and/or very very deceptively.

What does it say about God that he allows this devil to do that?

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

How nice of you.

Let's turn that mega insult around:

"It isn't until you accept that you are putting superstition and false religious beliefs at the center of your life that you'll realise how meaningless and empty your life is at this moment"




It's kind of hard not to take offence when somebody tells you that your life is empty and meaningless...


Right back at ya.

Well, prove me wrong. Do you believe in an afterlife?