The Great White Throne Judgment: Christians included?

[Oldmantook]

• At the GWT judgment, only the unsaved are resurrected and face judgment.
• At the GWT judgment, both the unsaved and saved are resurrected and face judgment.

11And I saw a great white throne and the One sitting on it, from whose face the earth and heaven fled, and no place was found for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the one of life. And the dead were judged out of the things having been written in the books, according to their deeds. 13And the sea gave up the dead who were in it; and death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them; and each of them were judged according to their works. 14And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15And if anyone was not found having been written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire. Rev 20:11-15

I think most of us including myself, were taught to believe the former statement instead of the latter. I think there is a problem though as it appears to not fit with the whole of Scripture.
Jn 5:28-29 Jesus himself stated: 28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming in which all those in the tombs will hear His voice, 29and will come forth—those having done good to the resurrection of life, and those having done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

Jesus cites a specific hour (singular) in which ALL those in the tombs will be resurrected - both the "good" AND the "evil."

The Apostle Paul confirms the same thing when he stated: "and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked" (Acts 24:15). Paul referred to a [singular] resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked which parallels Jesus' statement in Jn 5:28-29.

Based on these passages, a singular resurrection will occur where both the righteous and wicked are judged according to their works - whether good or evil - resulting in either being resurrected to life or resurrected to judgment. I'm not aware of anywhere in Scripture where this fits except for at the GWT judgment. I don't have the time to reply to all, but your comments are welcome.

 

[eleos1954]

• At the GWT judgment, only the unsaved are resurrected and face judgment.
• At the GWT judgment, both the unsaved and saved are resurrected and face judgment.

11And I saw a great white throne and the One sitting on it, from whose face the earth and heaven fled, and no place was found for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the one of life. And the dead were judged out of the things having been written in the books, according to their deeds. 13And the sea gave up the dead who were in it; and death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them; and each of them were judged according to their works. 14And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15And if anyone was not found having been written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire. Rev 20:11-15

I think most of us including myself, were taught to believe the former statement instead of the latter. I think there is a problem though as it appears to not fit with the whole of Scripture.
Jn 5:28-29 Jesus himself stated: 28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming in which all those in the tombs will hear His voice, 29and will come forth—those having done good to the resurrection of life, and those having done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

Jesus cites a specific hour (singular) in which ALL those in the tombs will be resurrected - both the "good" AND the "evil."

The Apostle Paul confirms the same thing when he stated: "and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked" (Acts 24:15). Paul referred to a [singular] resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked which parallels Jesus' statement in Jn 5:28-29.

Based on these passages, a singular resurrection will occur where both the righteous and wicked are judged according to their works - whether good or evil - resulting in either being resurrected to life or resurrected to judgment. I'm not aware of anywhere in Scripture where this fits except for at the GWT judgment. I don't have the time to reply to all, but your comments are welcome.

There are 2 resurrections, in the 1st resurrection (at Jesus 2nd coming) is all the saved in the graves (and the saved living at the time) they do not experience the 2nd death. The 2nd resurrection (The GWT judgement) is later (after 1,000 years) and all the unsaved along with satan and his minions are destroyed along with the earth by fire.

Revelation 20:5

The rest of the dead (the unsaved) did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.

Revelation 20:14

14Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death—the lake of fire.15 And if anyone was found whose name was not written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

 

[Oldmantook]

There are 2 resurrections, in the 1st resurrection (at Jesus 2nd coming) is all the saved in the graves (and the saved living at the time) they do not experience the 2nd death. The 2nd resurrection (The GWT judgement) is later (after 1,000 years) and all the unsaved along with satan and his minions are destroyed along with the earth by fire.

Revelation 20:5

The rest of the dead (the unsaved) did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.

Revelation 20:14

14Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death—the lake of fire.15 And if anyone was found whose name was not written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

I agree with you that Scripture references two resurrections. As you stated, the first occurs at Jesus' 2nd Coming and the the second resurrection occurs after the 1,000 year millennial reign of Jesus on the earth.
However as I pointed out in my initial post, John 5:28-29 and Acts 24:15 do not fit with the notion that there are separate judgments for the saved and unsaved. Instead, these two passages describe only ONE JUDGMENT for BOTH the saved and unsaved occurring at the same time. Thus my conclusion is the GWT judgement is for both the saved and unsaved.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The Apostles would be sitting on 12 twelves judging the 12 Tribes.......
Perhaps the Apostles are in the 1st resurrection?

Gen 49:1
1 And Jacob called his sons and said,
“Gather together, that I may tell you what shall befall you in the last days:
2 “Gather together and hear, you sons of Jacob,
And listen to Israel your father.

Mat 19:28
27 Then Peter answered and said to Him, “See, we have left all and followed You. Therefore what shall we have?”
28 So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 “And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife[fn] or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life.

Luke 22:
29 “And I bestow upon you a kingdom, just as My Father bestowed one upon Me,
30 “that you may eat and drink at My table in My kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.”
31 And the Lord said,[fn] “Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat.

Rev 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them, and the souls of those who have been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus,

.

 

[YeshuaFan]

• At the GWT judgment, only the unsaved are resurrected and face judgment.
• At the GWT judgment, both the unsaved and saved are resurrected and face judgment.

11And I saw a great white throne and the One sitting on it, from whose face the earth and heaven fled, and no place was found for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the one of life. And the dead were judged out of the things having been written in the books, according to their deeds. 13And the sea gave up the dead who were in it; and death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them; and each of them were judged according to their works. 14And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15And if anyone was not found having been written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire. Rev 20:11-15

I think most of us including myself, were taught to believe the former statement instead of the latter. I think there is a problem though as it appears to not fit with the whole of Scripture.
Jn 5:28-29 Jesus himself stated: 28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming in which all those in the tombs will hear His voice, 29and will come forth—those having done good to the resurrection of life, and those having done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

Jesus cites a specific hour (singular) in which ALL those in the tombs will be resurrected - both the "good" AND the "evil."

The Apostle Paul confirms the same thing when he stated: "and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked" (Acts 24:15). Paul referred to a [singular] resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked which parallels Jesus' statement in Jn 5:28-29.

Based on these passages, a singular resurrection will occur where both the righteous and wicked are judged according to their works - whether good or evil - resulting in either being resurrected to life or resurrected to judgment. I'm not aware of anywhere in Scripture where this fits except for at the GWT judgment. I don't have the time to reply to all, but your comments are welcome.

The saved will be raised up and glorified at second coming of Christ, and the lost after 1000 years has passed, so 2 different judgments, as saved have Bhema one, and lost GWT!

 

[d taylor]

The believer is judged only at the judgment seat of Christ. for their good and bad works for rewards not for eternal life.

The great white throne judgment is similar to the judgment seat of The Christ. But the great white throne is for non believers and it is judging their level in the lake of fire.

Neither of these judgments are deciding on a persons eternal place where they will be. That was decided at their death.
Either they believed in The Messiah for eternal life or they did not.

 

[Oldmantook]

The saved will be raised up and glorified at second coming of Christ, and the lost after 1000 years has passed, so 2 different judgments, as saved have Bhema one, and lost GWT!

You did not explain how John 5:28-29 and Acts 25:14 fit within your view point.

 

[Oldmantook]

The believer is judged only at the judgment seat of Christ. for their good and bad works for rewards not for eternal life.

The great white throne judgment is similar to the judgment seat of The Christ. But the great white throne is for non believers and it is judging their level in the lake of fire.

Neither of these judgments are deciding on a persons eternal place where they will be. That was decided at their death.
Either they believed in The Messiah for eternal life or they did not.

You did not explain how John 5:28-29 and Acts 25:14 fit within your view point.

 

[d taylor]

You did not explain how John 5:28-29 and Acts 25:14 fit within your view point.

Well first there is more to this chapter (5) than just these two verses.
look at John 5:24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

So what kind of judgment is 5:24 speaking of, in the context this verse is saying that a person who has believed has eternal life and has crossed over from death to life.

So with that understood then we can see, what ever judgment a believer comes to, it is not to decide will they have eternal life verse 5:24 already states that believer has eternal life and has crossed over from death to life.

I still state and believe the only people in view in revelations great white throne judgment, is all non believers from all the ages, no believers are present.

 

[ItIsFinished!]

The resurrection for the just is only one time , but at different stages.
The resurrection for the unjust is only one time at one time at The Great White Throne Judgment.

 

[Oldmantook]

Well first there is more to this chapter (5) than just these two verses.
look at John 5:24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

So what kind of judgment is 5:24 speaking of, in the context this verse is saying that a person who has believed has eternal life and has crossed over from death to life.

So with that understood then we can see, what ever judgment a believer comes to, it is not to decide will they have eternal life verse 5:24 already states that believer has eternal life and has crossed over from death to life.

I still state and believe the only people in view in revelations great white throne judgment, is all non believers from all the ages, no believers are present.

I suggest you reread my original post. Both passages I cited stated that there will be ONE resurrection for BOTH the righteous and unrighteous. Just which resurrection is this? You have not accounted for this in your reply.

 

[d taylor]

I suggest you reread my original post. Both passages I cited stated that there will be ONE resurrection for BOTH the righteous and unrighteous. Just which resurrection is this? You have not accounted for this in your reply.

your original two verses John 5:28-29 and Acts 24:15

Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept, that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.

That you are trying to tie to the great white throne.
Where in those verses do you see that these are connected as happening at the same time as one resurrection the verses do not state that the dead hear God's voice all at the same time. Are you not adding in the idea that these are going to happen at the same time.

But in 1st Corinthians, states this
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.
And in Corinthians Paul is writing to the church so in this context Paul is speaking about the resurrection of believers at the coming of Christ not at the great white throne.

 

[Oldmantook]

your original two verses John 5:28-29 and Acts 24:15

Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept, that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.

That you are trying to tie to the great white throne.
Where in those verses do you see that these are connected as happening at the same time as one resurrection the verses do not state that the dead hear God's voice all at the same time. Are you not adding in the idea that these are going to happen at the same time.

But in 1st Corinthians, states this
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.
And in Corinthians Paul is writing to the church so in this context Paul is speaking about the resurrection of believers at the coming of Christ not at the great white throne.

You ignored my question. Just which resurrection does Jn 5:28-29 and Acts 24:15 refer to? These passages do not refer to two separate resurrections. They state A resurrection (singular) of BOTH the righteous AND the wicked = one resurrection; not two. You must read the text for what it actually states instead of what you think it states. So again, which resurrection?

 

[d taylor]

You ignored my question. Just which resurrection does Jn 5:28-29 and Acts 24:15 refer to? These passages do not refer to two separate resurrections. They state A resurrection (singular) of BOTH the righteous AND the wicked = one resurrection; not two. You must read the text for what it actually states instead of what you think it states. So again, which resurrection?

So if i say there is a football game for jr high and high school.
That means that these two groups (jr high and High school) will be playing on the same day and at the same time and on the same field.

So again if these resurrections are at the same time why does Paul state in 1st Corinthians that there is a resurrection at the coming of Christ.

And clearly The Bible states that the unbeliever is resurrected after the 1000 year reign of The Christ and after satans rebellion is crushed.

 

[BABerean2]

• At the GWT judgment, only the unsaved are resurrected and face judgment.
• At the GWT judgment, both the unsaved and saved are resurrected and face judgment.

11And I saw a great white throne and the One sitting on it, from whose face the earth and heaven fled, and no place was found for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the one of life. And the dead were judged out of the things having been written in the books, according to their deeds. 13And the sea gave up the dead who were in it; and death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them; and each of them were judged according to their works. 14And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15And if anyone was not found having been written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire. Rev 20:11-15

I think most of us including myself, were taught to believe the former statement instead of the latter. I think there is a problem though as it appears to not fit with the whole of Scripture.
Jn 5:28-29 Jesus himself stated: 28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming in which all those in the tombs will hear His voice, 29and will come forth—those having done good to the resurrection of life, and those having done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

Jesus cites a specific hour (singular) in which ALL those in the tombs will be resurrected - both the "good" AND the "evil."

The Apostle Paul confirms the same thing when he stated: "and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked" (Acts 24:15). Paul referred to a [singular] resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked which parallels Jesus' statement in Jn 5:28-29.

Based on these passages, a singular resurrection will occur where both the righteous and wicked are judged according to their works - whether good or evil - resulting in either being resurrected to life or resurrected to judgment. I'm not aware of anywhere in Scripture where this fits except for at the GWT judgment. I don't have the time to reply to all, but your comments are welcome.

You are on the right track.

It is confirmed by Paul in 2 Timothy 4:1.

Many ignore the timing of the event, because it does not fit their man-made doctrine.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Those who have been purchased by the blood of Christ will be judged based on His works.

When some try to force the New Testament to fit their Pre-mill interpretation of Revelation 20, they must ignore what you are presenting.

.

 

[YeshuaFan]

The believer is judged only at the judgment seat of Christ. for their good and bad works for rewards not for eternal life.

The great white throne judgment is similar to the judgment seat of The Christ. But the great white throne is for non believers and it is judging their level in the lake of fire.

Neither of these judgments are deciding on a persons eternal place where they will be. That was decided at their death.
Either they believed in The Messiah for eternal life or they did not.

Yes, as the saved will be judged for eternal rewards, and the lost shall be shown to have rejected Jesus as Lord!

 

[YeshuaFan]

You did not explain how John 5:28-29 and Acts 25:14 fit within your view point.

You have yet to explain Revelation 20, and the long gap between the 2 resurrections!

 

[Oldmantook]

So if i say there is a football game for jr high and high school.
That means that these two groups (jr high and High school) will be playing on the same day and at the same time and on the same field.

So again if these resurrections are at the same time why does Paul state in 1st Corinthians that there is a resurrection at the coming of Christ.

And clearly The Bible states that the unbeliever is resurrected after the 1000 year reign of The Christ and after satans rebellion is crushed.

You didn't even answer my question as to which resurrection do the two passages I cited refer to. Why is that? I'll answer your question about 1st Cor. but you have to wrestle with my simple question first.

 

[YeshuaFan]

You didn't even answer my question as to which resurrection do the two passages I cited refer to. Why is that? I'll answer your question about 1st Cor. but you have to wrestle with my simple question first.

The Christian has the Bhema seat of Jesus, while sinner has the GWT!

 

[d taylor]

You didn't even answer my question as to which resurrection do the two passages I cited refer to. Why is that? I'll answer your question about 1st Cor. but you have to wrestle with my simple question first.

They address two different resurrections. There is no link to the great white throne in these verse where is the reference to tombs at the great white throne . You are only trying to create a link

Why does a verse in Daniel state many will be resurrected and not say all will be resurrected if there is just one resurrection

And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.