Demons - real or not?

[Cis.jd]

I'm not sure what to think when someone makes a statement like this.

Do you mean that other texts are just as informative as the Cannon? Are just as true as the canonized scripture?

How about texts that were written before the flood, yet have been preserved until today and were quoted in the bible?

If so, then, what do you say about "The Book of Enoch"? This text parallels the biblical canon and was, for some time considered part of the canon.

The Book of Enoch (BoE) is very detailed and exacting in where demons come from and that, according to the text of the BoE, they cannot be anything but evil.

Many dismiss the BoE. They say it's not canon so it is not worthy of mention. However, they will quote definitions from Websters Dictionary, writings of Plato, Socrates, and even Darwin, as being solid truth..

So, I guess it is important to expand on what you mean by "everything is not in the bible".


I am quite certain that demons are "not of God". Read these:

1 Timothy 4:1 New International Version (NIV)

4 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

James 2:19 New International Version (NIV)
19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

1 Corinthians 10:20-21 New International Version (NIV)
20 No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. 21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord’s table and the table of demons.






Human Spirits? I don't believe in "human spirits" I believe that every human has a soul.. and you are correct, they are certainly not all of God.

As for scripture about ghosts.. Check these out... when Christ was walking on the water and the disciples were afraid.. Notice, Christ did not say " don't be silly there is no such thing as ghosts". He simply tells them that it is Him and "don't be afraid".

Matthew 14:25-27 New International Version (NIV)

25 Shortly before dawn Jesus went out to them, walking on the lake. 26 When the disciples saw him walking on the lake, they were terrified. “It’s a ghost,” they said, and cried out in fear.

27 But Jesus immediately said to them: “Take courage! It is I. Don’t be afraid.”

Then there is this:

Luke 24:37-39 New International Version (NIV)

37 They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38 He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”


Do you not think that the rich man would have gone somewhere else, if he could have, in the story of Lazarus?
Luke 16:19-31

It has nothing to do with the canon, i'm saying not everything is documented. We don't have anything of much detail on certain things which includes ghosts, the planets in our solarsystem, Dinosaurs, dynasties in other countries, and even Satan and his origins isn't completely grounded, as well as the list of the canon isn't mentioned in the Bible.. never the less, we know these are facts.

Just because the Bible doesn't have any straight forward details or none at all doesn't mean something is false, it's just not talked about.

As for spirits and souls. I believe we have both. We are body, soul, and spirit (a trinity) these are the essences of life. Spirit being our energy or actual life force, while the Soul gives us an identity.. it's what brings out our morality, compassion, emotions, and just simply what defines us internally as an individual.

For you last part in reference to Luke 16. That is what we call Purgatory.. us catholics are not settled whether purgatory is a place or state, there are a few of us who think Purgatory like the Orthodox view of limbo .

 

[klutedavid]

I personally believe that a lot of mental illnesses are actually demonic in nature.

So do I, the devil is clever and cunning. Why would he possess people these days, when he can influence people and achieve the same outcome.

During my conversion to Christianity I had an encounter with an evil entity. It was the first time I ever uttered the name of Jesus, to rescue me from the demonic. A terrifying experience and not one I ever want to experience again.

So in my case I have no doubt about the devil's existence.

 

[Francis Drake]

I think the question there is whether that person actually had the Holy Spirit abiding in him at all in the first place.

In my experience, the Holy Spirit does not share His temple with a demon, and will shout alarm against one attempting to encroach upon His temple.

Of all the people I have cast demons out of, 99% have been baptised in the Spirit for a long time.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

True. Satan is an angelic being. As has already been discussed here, angels are just one of many "ranks" or "levels" or "positions" of the heavenly beings that God created.

The "angels" that mated with the women were "watcher class" angels. They were lower ranks than Satan who was an Archangel.

He was a Serpent Cherub, not an Archangel:


You were The Anointed Cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
Till iniquity was found in you

• Ezekiel 28:14-15

 

[Cement]

He was a Serpent Cherub, not an Archangel:


You were The Anointed Cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
Till iniquity was found in you

• Ezekiel 28:14-15

I think that was part of the reason why he became proud and was able to convince others to join him thus starting the heavenly war. If recall correctly even Archangel Micheal who takes on a protector and commander role in the war was not able to ward him off without the help of God. There seems to be very few of these class of angels or spirit beings. I think Satan was only one of two or four made in this way and the only one of his kind to rebel. If i also recall correctly Paul writings states that humans will take on the tasks of these beings who vacated their roles.

 

[JacksBratt]

It has nothing to do with the canon, i'm saying not everything is documented. We don't have anything of much detail on certain things which includes ghosts, the planets in our solarsystem, Dinosaurs, dynasties in other countries, and even Satan and his origins isn't completely grounded, as well as the list of the canon isn't mentioned in the Bible.. never the less, we know these are facts.

Just because the Bible doesn't have any straight forward details or none at all doesn't mean something is false, it's just not talked about.

As for spirits and souls. I believe we have both. We are body, soul, and spirit (a trinity) these are the essences of life. Spirit being our energy or actual life force, while the Soul gives us an identity.. it's what brings out our morality, compassion, emotions, and just simply what defines us internally as an individual.

For you last part in reference to Luke 16. That is what we call Purgatory.. us catholics are not settled whether purgatory is a place or state, there are a few of us who think Purgatory like the Orthodox view of limbo .

I didn't think that anyone held to a belief in "purgatory" anymore.

I am not catholic and there are many things about that church that I totally disagree with. That is not what this thread is about so I will simply reply to the item you have raised in regards to "purgatory".

From what I understand, it is a place where some will go until they have paid for some sins and/or earned passage into heaven.

I see no basis for this at all. Further more, how this is attached to whether demons exist or not, escapes me.

 

[Cis.jd]

I didn't think that anyone held to a belief in "purgatory" anymore.

I am not catholic and there are many things about that church that I totally disagree with. That is not what this thread is about so I will simply reply to the item you have raised in regards to "purgatory".

From what I understand, it is a place where some will go until they have paid for some sins and/or earned passage into heaven.

I see no basis for this at all. Further more, how this is attached to whether demons exist or not, escapes me.

A place or a state. Some of us do lean more towards the views of the orthodox on this matter. Not all protestants believe the spirits of the dead shoot up to heaven or get casted down to hell immediately after death. I've read that some here believe they wonder until Christ returns in where all will be fully resurrected to face judgement.

 

[JacksBratt]

He was a Serpent Cherub, not an Archangel:


You were The Anointed Cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
Till iniquity was found in you

• Ezekiel 28:14-15

Thank you for that correction. I have found a lot of commentary on who Lucifer or Satan was. It seems to me that he was the highest and most perfect of all of the created beings.

There is, however, a lot of discrepancy as to what he actually was. Covering Cherub was the most clear that I could find. Even though he was also a musician and leader of the music and covered in many precious stones.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

If recall correctly even Archangel Micheal who takes on a protector and commander role in the war was not able to ward him off without the help of God.

He could have, easily, but even as Jesus relied on the Father, the Archangels rely on Yeshua and the Father - like Yeshua they NEVER do anything independently or from their self. Thus also Yeshua tells the disciples so to live. Same mind as Christ; same attitude.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

If i also recall correctly Paul writings states that humans will take on the tasks of these beings who vacated their roles.

No. Ekklesia will judge angels, and so likewise Yahweh's Word says clearly we should judge ourselves , and our dealings, without ungodly judges who are easily bribed and corrupt, of this world, carnal and outside of Christ. (it is a shame to carry lawsuits between believers into ungodly courts = it is better to suffer wrong than to do so)

 

[JacksBratt]

A place or a state. Some of us do lean more towards the views of the orthodox on this matter. Not all protestants believe the spirits of the dead shoot up to heaven or get casted down to hell immediately after death. I've read that some here believe they wonder until Christ returns in where all will be fully resurrected to face judgement.

The protestant Christians that I know do not hold to any "purgatory" or wandering. They are basically of two thoughts.. One is that we go to be judged and exist in a heavenly place. The other is that we "sleep" and are not aware of anything.

I have seen enough myself, in those near death in old age, as well as talked to care providers for those at the end of their years... to believe that Christians do go to a place that is paradise, after they die... while those that do not believe on His name go to a place that is truly awful.
Even Anton LaVey's last words were:
"What have I done, there is something very wrong" - Anton LaVey (1930-1997)

So I doubt that he was oblivious to what was going on in the after life and probably was well aware of where he was and where he was going to be.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The other is that we "sleep" and are not aware of anything.

Because Scripture says so, I think is enough to believe it.

I have seen enough myself, in those near death in old age, as well as talked to care providers for those at the end of their years... to believe that Christians do go to a place that is paradise, after they die... while those that do not believe on His name go to a place that is truly awful.

Visions like this , as in the Bible, are not of the kind meant to show what happens in the twinkling (blink) of an eye between death and resurrection,
but serve another purpose.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

QUOTE=
]Yeah sorry mate to burst your bubble about someone you like.
It's happened to me a lot.

I've realised that there aren't any "good guys" working in the positions of power.

Jesus will sort it out when he comes back. Until then I recommend this..

Home > KJV


«Ephesians 5
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Ephesians 6:11-18 King James Version (KJV)

11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
[/QUOTE
==========================

amen

 

[Cement]

No. Ekklesia will judge angels, and so likewise Yahweh's Word says clearly we should judge ourselves , and our dealings, without ungodly judges who are easily bribed and corrupt, of this world, carnal and outside of Christ. (it is a shame to carry lawsuits between believers into ungodly courts = it is better to suffer wrong than to do so)

You know your right on this one. I have gone to a church where people have sued each other and the church lost money this way it really make me think whether or not its a real church or just a place people congregate every weekend. I think part of the reason God delegates this authority unto us because we also were once corrupted and the heavenly angels do not know sin. I suppose even lowliest human in heaven will be granted a higher status then those angels but people dont seem to care about this enough and I struggle myself because we have to think of not of here and now but more there and then.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So let's move the discussion away from whether demons are making people puke pea soup to a more meaningful discussion of what tactics they are using against the Body of Christ and what our counter-tactics should be.

Same as first century , only multiplied greatly (much much worse today).

"Beware the deception of the reliigious leaders."

"All men are liars" (even the Apostles UNTIL saved/ redeemed/ sanctified)

"TEST EVERYTHING" by Scripture and much prayer.

TRUST and RELY ON the HEAVENLY FATHER to accomplish salvation and everything concerning salvation (in this life and the next, trust at once for all time)

Pray frquently with the Father, listen to Him, listen to the Shepherd,
HEAR AND DO the FATHER'S WORD
"do not be hearers only and not doers" for they are not justified." (Romans 2 et al)

Be Becoming like little children or never see Yahweh's Kingdom.

Those with a pure heart will see the Father.

Without faith, trusting and relying for all things on the Father,
it is impossible to please God.

Whoever places their trust in man , Yahweh curses.

 

[moonlit]

I belive they are real. Some call them UFO's also, but common opinion seems to state that they are really demonic entities.

 

[Cis.jd]

The protestant Christians that I know do not hold to any "purgatory" or wandering. They are basically of two thoughts.. One is that we go to be judged and exist in a heavenly place. The other is that we "sleep" and are not aware of anything.

I have seen enough myself, in those near death in old age, as well as talked to care providers for those at the end of their years... to believe that Christians do go to a place that is paradise, after they die... while those that do not believe on His name go to a place that is truly awful.
Even Anton LaVey's last words were:
"What have I done, there is something very wrong" - Anton LaVey (1930-1997)

So I doubt that he was oblivious to what was going on in the after life and probably was well aware of where he was and where he was going to be.

That is something i can raise an argument too and shell out the bible verses, but Purgatory isn't the debate and going "oh bible says this". It's a rational view. There are sins that are not "evil enough" to deserve hell and there are sins that just can't be "swept under the rug" thinking other wise draws an illogical belief of a "just and loving God".
This doesn't disregard or belittle Jesus' sacrifice, but it's just being real that regardless of what he did we just can't sin/hurt others and have it swept under the rug. That is unfair to the others who have suffered from your sins.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

What Are the Doctrines of Demons? - Blue Letter Bible

https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_57.cfm
The Bible warns believers about the doctrine of demons. Paul wrote to Timothy about these evil teachings. But the Spirit says expressly, that in later times some shall fall away from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons.
1 Timothy 4:1 KJV - Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that - Bible ...

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Timothy+4%3A1&version...
4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;. King James ...

 

[Cement]

That is something i can raise an argument too and shell out the bible verses, but Purgatory isn't the debate and going "oh bible says this". It's a rational view. There are sins that are not "evil enough" to deserve hell and there are sins that just can't be "swept under the rug" thinking other wise draws an illogical belief of a "just and loving God".
This doesn't disregard or belittle Jesus' sacrifice, but it's just being real that regardless of what he did we just can't sin/hurt others and have it swept under the rug. That is unfair to the others who have suffered from your sins.

All sin is rebellion before God. When you view it that way you will understand sin differently.

 

[Cis.jd]

All sin is rebellion before God. When you view it that way you will understand sin differently.

They are, but there is also a thing caused by psychological effects and just pure ignorance.. God can't be considered merciful if that is just disregarded nor can he be just if he ignores it. Matt 5:26