No Compromise at the Border.

[OldWiseGuy]

Can you describe how "your" fence will work. Something that isn't already in place?

My fence would resemble those in use in Europe: Chain link topped with a thicket of razor wire, guard towers spaced within sight of each other, patrolled by trained guards, police or military personnel, dogs, aided by various electronic devices such as camera drones, night vision goggles, infrared sensors, flood lights. It would nothing like the present fences.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

That's not what open borders means to any one else (in the world I imagine).

"Open border" to the rest of the world means being able to walk across the border anywhere at anytime and not be stopped or questioned at all.

If you're going to use your own definitions, can you at least provide the rest of us with a dictionary of your meanings so that we can all understand you?

I'm redefining open border as a metaphor for the Dems liberal position on immigration. I don't think anyone misunderstands what I mean.

 

[EpiscipalMe]

I'm redefining open border as a metaphor for the Dems liberal position on immigration. I don't think anyone misunderstands what I mean.

I think everyone misunderstands what you mean.

And, you can’t criticize Democrats for wanting open borders if you define open borders as whatever Democrats want. That is circular reasoning.

 

[Queller]

One hundred yards each way is easy to patrol.

Based on what? Your opinion?

Most are already being paid. New money not needed.

Really? You think 30,000 agents and support personnel are just sitting around right now with nothing to do (except not get paid for doing their jobs)?

Dogs are fast and can be trained to work between distant guards, so fewer dogs are needed. Also they aren't needed everywhere; open flat terrain for example. Also they would be trained to bark at approaching illegals, not bite them, unless they breach the fence.

You are aware that 99% of the time, a police/security dog is right their with their handler all the time right? They don't go off on their own.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Do you condemn Trump for not sustaining Obama's initiative on the issue?

If true I don't like it.

Shut down means shut down. No illegal aliens are being processed and no illegals are being deported. There's no way to spin in. And given that Trump has declared that he is happy to keep the government shut down for years if necessary, that might not be changing anytime soon.

That's still temporary.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I think everyone misunderstands what you mean.

And, you can’t criticize Democrats for wanting open borders if you define open borders as whatever Democrats want. That is circular reasoning.

Whaaat?

 

[Doveaman]

. Walls may work in certain situations

I agree.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

A surplus? Whose kool-aid have you been drinking? A savings account is not a surplus and nobody "loaned" the government anything from SS. They just TOOK it. So much that if something isn't done, people will lose a significant portion of their benefits by 2034. Maybe you're old enough that you'll be dead by then, but I won't. I'll just be beginning to consider retirement (at age 64).

I will be dead by then.

You should read up on SS. You don't seem to understand how it works.

 

[Queller]

Why consult an economist about the wall. They are ignorant of the situation on the border.

Because economists know how to best use money? Did you even bother to read the link?

Here's just one example;

"...for every 19 cents the government has spent building walls or fences on the border, the economy has declined and low-income U.S. workers have gained only a cent of extra income."

That's not at all a good return on an investment.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Based on what? Your opinion?

On my experience, both as a hunter and an army vet who has walked many miles of guard duty... along a good fence (also from a guard tower).

Really? You think 30,000 agents and support personnel are just sitting around right now with nothing to do (except not get paid for doing their jobs)?

If they had a good fence in front of them they would be much more effective.

You are aware that 99% of the time, a police/security dog is right their with their handler all the time right? They don't go off on their own.

I trained my hunting dog, and could send her on a 'blind retrieve' as far away as she could see my hand signals. You can train a dog to do most anything, including working with multiple handlers.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Because economists know how to best use money? Did you even bother to read the link?

Here's just one example;

"...for every 19 cents the government has spent building walls or fences on the border, the economy has declined and low-income U.S. workers have gained only a cent of extra income."

That's not at all a good return on an investment.

One doesn't expect to make a profit while solving a problem.

 

[Queller]

Your standard deduction went up.

Yes, to $12000. You know how much I was able to deduct because of the the deduction plus child credit and alimony last year? A little under $16,000. So I'm $4,000 in the hole already because of the Trump tax cut. Thanks.

 

[Queller]

My fence would resemble those in use in Europe: Chain link topped with a thicket of razor wire, guard towers spaced within sight of each other, patrolled by trained guards, police or military personnel, dogs, aided by various electronic devices such as camera drones, night vision goggles, infrared sensors, flood lights. It would nothing like the present fences.

Guard towers in sight of each other AND patrolled by guards with dogs? You've just doubled your 27,000 guards to 56,000 guards. One in each tower and one patrolling between them with a dog. Remember, that it's YOUR numbers I'm using.

And that's presuming that the "guard towers spaced within sight of each other" are only 200 yards apart. If they're closer, say to account for terrain, then the number of personnel needed, goes up.

 

[Queller]

I'm redefining open border as a metaphor for the Dems liberal position on immigration. I don't think anyone misunderstands what I mean.

The problem is that your "metaphor" doesn't resemble anything like the real world or ANY Democrat's plan for immigration. If it did, you would have given an example by now. Yet instead of backing up your position with quotes or policy proposals you continue to deflect.

 

[Queller]

If true I don't like it.

But do you condemn him for it?

That's still temporary.

As I said; shut down is shut down. The "champion" of getting rid of illegal aliens has made it impossible to get rid of illegal aliens until he gets his way. Hypocrisy at its finest.

 

[Queller]

Whaaat?

Do you not understand circular reasoning?

Your position:
Queller: What are open borders?
OldWiseGuy: Whatever proposals Democrats make.

Queller: What proposals have Democrats made?
OldWiseGuy: Open borders.

That's practically the epitome of circular reasoning.

 

[Queller]

I agree.

That this isn't one of them? Good. Me too.

 

[Queller]

I will be dead by then.

Then I guess you don't care about those of that will still be alive but won't be getting out SS what we paid into it thanks to the government taking it all.

You should read up on SS. You don't seem to understand how it works.

Oh really? Feel free to enlighten me, oh omniscient one.

 

[Queller]

On my experience, both as a hunter and an army vet who has walked many miles of guard duty... along a good fence (also from a guard tower).

Where did you walk 200 yards of fence by yourself?

BTW, I served in the Middle East and patrols were NEVER 200 yards at a time alone.

If they had a good fence in front of them they would be much more effective.

Don't deflect. Answer my question.

I trained my hunting dog, and could send her on a 'blind retrieve' as far away as she could see my hand signals. You can train a dog to do most anything, including working with multiple handlers.

Your hunting dog is not equivalent to a military or police working dog.

 

[Queller]

One doesn't expect to make a profit while solving a problem.

No, but one does expect that the solution will not be a losing proposition for the economy.