No Compromise at the Border.

[Queller]

Actually just the opposite. Any barrier should be stark and foreboding.

"Stark and foreboding" describes appearance, not effectiveness. Thanks for proving my point.

 

[Queller]

I'm looking forward to my tax break. You?

What tax break are you expecting for a border wall?

For 2018 tax season, thanks to Trump, I lost the dependent exemption for my high school daughter and the deduction for the alimony I pay my ex-wife. So my tax refund will be going down and I might end up owing more. I barely made $43,000 working two jobs (before taxes) last year. Thanks GOP.

 

[Queller]

No fence = open border.

Name a Democrat that wants "no fences". Of course that would mean taking down the fences that already exist along the border. Should be fairly easy to find a Democrat that wants that. I'll wait.

 

[Queller]

Both groups seem to be quite safe from deportation.

True under Trump. Not true under Obama, ICE deportation efforts while Obama was president were focused on violent criminals and approximately twice as many illegal aliens were deported in his peak years than Trump deported last year.

Of course, since Trump shut down the government, no illegal aliens are being deported because the courts responsible for the deportation hearings are shut down.

Brilliant move!

 

[Queller]

Actually it is...an invitation to the next 'caravan'. Any amnesty is.

Can you define what you mean by "open borders"? You don't seem to be using a definition that anyone else has ever heard of.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

"Stark and foreboding" describes appearance, not effectiveness. Thanks for proving my point.

My fence would be both.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

What tax break are you expecting for a border wall?

For 2018 tax season, thanks to Trump, I lost the dependent exemption for my high school daughter and the deduction for the alimony I pay my ex-wife. So my tax refund will be going down and I might end up owing more. I barely made $43,000 working two jobs (before taxes) last year. Thanks GOP.

But you won't know for sure until you file, right?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

True under Trump. Not true under Obama, ICE deportation efforts while Obama was president were focused on violent criminals and approximately twice as many illegal aliens were deported in his peak years than Trump deported last year.

I give Obama kudos for that.

Of course, since Trump shut down the government, no illegal aliens are being deported because the courts responsible for the deportation hearings are shut down.

Temporarily shut down.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Can you define what you mean by "open borders"? You don't seem to be using a definition that anyone else has ever heard of.

It means come one come all and we'll find a way to get you in. Just have a good sob story.

 

[Queller]

No need to patrol the whole border. Lets say 1000 miles x 9 guards per mile x 3 shifts = 27,000 (more or less) plus support personnel. If the border is secured many who now process illegals won't be needed. So there may actually be fewer personnel needed if the border was secured. Also most of those needed are already on the government payroll; border guards, military, law enforcement.

So each guard is responsible for two football fields length worth of border? That's a pretty big hole for lots of immigrants to pour through. You better hope that none of them ever eat lunch or have to go to the bathroom while on the clock.

Also did you do the math on the financial cost? 27,000 new guards (plus say 3,000 support personnel) at approximately $45,000 each per year is $1.35B annually. Your claim that some who now process illegals won't be needed is laughable. Who do you think will process for deportation all those illegals that these 27,000 new agents will be catching?

And let's not forget about the purchase and training of those 27,000 "attack dogs". At ~$8,000 each (including training) then you're looking at another $216M. And that just to get the dogs. Never mind equipment, medical care, etc.

 

[Queller]

So let's build a $5 billion dollar barrier and see what happens, then go from there.

I thought you were a conservative? Aren't you supposed to be fiscally responsible?

Most experts don't believe a wall is an efficient, effective use of our tax dollars.

Economists on the border wall

 

[Queller]

You have to pay into it to get benefits. SS is support solely by workers contributions. There is even a surplus that we loan to the government.

A surplus? Whose kool-aid have you been drinking? A savings account is not a surplus and nobody "loaned" the government anything from SS. They just TOOK it. So much that if something isn't done, people will lose a significant portion of their benefits by 2034. Maybe you're old enough that you'll be dead by then, but I won't. I'll just be beginning to consider retirement (at age 64).

That's a good thing.

Does that mean you'll stop claiming that illegal aliens come here and get welfare?

 

[Queller]

Trump has agreed to a fence, therefore it will be a fence. Possibly the kind Chuck and Nancy enthusiastically supported just a few years ago. (Is it ok to bring that up?)

You mean the one that was installed after "Chuck and Nancy" voted for it?

 

[Queller]

My fence would be both.

Can you describe how "your" fence will work. Something that isn't already in place?

 

[Queller]

But you won't know for sure until you file, right?

Well, no. I know for sure now. Losing two major deduction without anything to offset them means my taxes will go up.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

So each guard is responsible for two football fields length worth of border? That's a pretty big hole for lots of immigrants to pour through. You better hope that none of them ever eat lunch or have to go to the bathroom while on the clock.

One hundred yards each way is easy to patrol.

Also did you do the math on the financial cost? 27,000 new guards (plus say 3,000 support personnel) at approximately $45,000 each per year is $1.35B annually. Your claim that some who now process illegals won't be needed is laughable. Who do you think will process for deportation all those illegals that these 27,000 new agents will be catching?

Most are already being paid. New money not needed.

And let's not forget about the purchase and training of those 27,000 "attack dogs". At ~$8,000 each (including training) then you're looking at another $216M. And that just to get the dogs. Never mind equipment, medical care, etc.

Dogs are fast and can be trained to work between distant guards, so fewer dogs are needed. Also they aren't needed everywhere; open flat terrain for example. Also they would be trained to bark at approaching illegals, not bite them, unless they breach the fence.

 

[Queller]

I give Obama kudos for that.

Do you condemn Trump for not sustaining Obama's initiative on the issue?

Temporarily shut down.

Shut down means shut down. No illegal aliens are being processed and no illegals are being deported. There's no other way to spin it. And given that Trump has declared that he is happy to keep the government shut down for years if necessary, that might not be changing anytime soon.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I thought you were a conservative? Aren't you supposed to be fiscally responsible?

Most experts don't believe a wall is an efficient, effective use of our tax dollars.

Economists on the border wall

Why consult an economist about the wall. They are ignorant of the situation on the border.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Well, no. I know for sure now. Losing two major deduction without anything to offset them means my taxes will go up.

Your standard deduction went up.

 

[Queller]

It means come one come all and we'll find a way to get you in. Just have a good sob story.

That's not what open borders means to any one else (in the world I imagine).

"Open border" to the rest of the world means being able to walk across the border anywhere at anytime and not be stopped or questioned at all.

If you're going to use your own definitions, can you at least provide the rest of us with a dictionary of your meanings so that we can all understand you?