LDS Is this false prophecy or can it be explained?

[Peter1000]

This verse clearly explains the ambiguity of the passes. "16 I was left thus, without being able to decide whether this coming referred to the beginning of the millennium or to some previous appearing, or whether I should die and thus see his face."

I don't accept the LDS Church as the one true church, but not because of an ambiguous passage.

Thank you.

 

[Peter1000]

If was true, everything said from Joseph Smith would line up with what Jesus said, and because it does not, its is a different group.

The same group would just be regular Christians.

I hope you all get the difference here.

How do you know what all Jesus said? Does the bible contain 100% of what Jesus said?

If not, then possibly what JS said lines up with what was not recorded from the mouth of Jesus. Is that a possibility?

 

[Peter1000]

Research shows it is not serious.

What research?

 

[Peter1000]

It is false.

Tell me why this statement from JS is false? Did you read it carefully?

 

[Cis.jd]

We know way too much about Joseph Smith to take him seriously. He was just a looney guy who had nothing to do with his life and made a business that became successful. Don't view it as anything related with supernatural-googley moogleys stuff.

 

[Peter1000]

We know way too much about Joseph Smith to take him seriously. He was just a looney guy who had nothing to do with his life and made a business that became successful. Don't view it as anything related with supernatural-googley moogleys stuff.

Have you ever read a real autobiography of JS. Not a anti-Mormon autobiography, but one that just gave the facts? And even one that perhaps gave JS support in the religious area of his life? If not, you cannot make the statements you have made about him.

 

[JacobKStarkey]

JSJr.'s life had much that was not of good repute, moral, or worthy. The evidence is factual not anti-Mormon. If you want a safe space for Mormonism, ask the Mods like the Catholics did here.

 

[Peter1000]

JSJr.'s life had much that was not of good repute, moral, or worthy. The evidence is factual not anti-Mormon. If you want a safe space for Mormonism, ask the Mods like the Catholics did here.

I'm not interested in a safe place, I am confortable discussing JS. I am also totally aware that JS was not a perfect man, but I believe for the most part, you are reading authors who have a bias against him, and so all stories are shaded toward that bias.

If you read stories that are more supportive of JS, then you get a more well rounded view of the prophet. If you choose to never get a supportive view, then you are not getting the whole story.

 

[PaulCyp1]

If He read the Bible He would know that Jesus Christ, God Almighty in the flesh, said that NO-ONE would know the time, that He would come "like a thief in the night", when we least expect Him.

 

[devin553344]

If He read the Bible He would know that Jesus Christ, God Almighty in the flesh, said that NO-ONE would know the time, that He would come "like a thief in the night", when we least expect Him.

Yeah that kinda indicates that any response of a voice regarding the coming of the son of man would then be a false prophecy doesn't it? That is another reason why I question whether you can claim the OP mentioned prophecy was a valid prophecy or not.

That did weigh in on my beliefs.

 

[Ironhold]

Yeah that kinda indicates that any response of a voice regarding the coming of the son of man would then be a false prophecy doesn't it? That is another reason why I question whether you can claim the OP mentioned prophecy was a valid prophecy or not.

That did weigh in on my beliefs.

This again goes back to Joseph Smith himself not knowing what the prophecy specifically meant.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Have you ever read a real autobiography of JS. Not a anti-Mormon autobiography, but one that just gave the facts? And even one that perhaps gave JS support in the religious area of his life? If not, you cannot make the statements you have made about him.

I'm not interested in a safe place, I am confortable discussing JS. I am also totally aware that JS was not a perfect man, but I believe for the most part, you are reading authors who have a bias against him, and so all stories are shaded toward that bias.

ROFL!!!!

Are you suggesting that a "real autobiography" (undefined here by you what that would be, but presumably one endorsed by the lds church) is free from bias??

 

[devin553344]

This again goes back to Joseph Smith himself not knowing what the prophecy specifically meant.

Thanks. I was not so much indicating Joseph Smith in the prophecy. But rather whether God would even give a prophecy regarding the coming of the son of man in the first place. The odd thing is that in Matthew 24:3 Jesus instructs the disciples on his second coming down thru 24. Suggesting he might give prophecy regarding his second coming, as he clearly did for John in Revelation, but certainly not the hour or day: Matthew 24:36

I'm a little confused really. Since by Joseph Smiths prediction Jesus should have appeared at the time Joseph Smith would have turned 85 regardless of whether Joseph Smith died or not.

If I'm to believe the prophecy then Jesus was set to visit the earth when Joseph was age 85. Why then didn't Jesus visit the earth at that time? Was it because of JS's Death in your opinion? So Joseph Smiths death stopped the second coming of Christ in your opinion? I'm suggesting that God is not a liar.

 

[Peter1000]

If He read the Bible He would know that Jesus Christ, God Almighty in the flesh, said that NO-ONE would know the time, that He would come "like a thief in the night", when we least expect Him.

This is the falacy of this idea that JS gave a date of the second coming. He did not. Read what he actually said, not what you have been told.

You can read exactly what he said in post #1. When you read it, then come back to me and tell me the date Jesus is supposed to return. Thank you.

 

[JacobKStarkey]

I'm not interested in a safe place, I am confortable discussing JS. I am also totally aware that JS was not a perfect man, but I believe for the most part, you are reading authors who have a bias against him, and so all stories are shaded toward that bias. If you read stories that are more supportive of JS, then you get a more well rounded view of the prophet. If you choose to never get a supportive view, then you are not getting the whole story.

Authors can be biased for and against JSJr., yes. People can have confirmation biases and cognitive dissonances, yes.

Good information should not equate to pro-Smith authors.

Bad information should not equate to anti-Smith authors.

Let the facts speak for themselves.

 

[CherubRam]

Tell me why this statement from JS is false? Did you read it carefully?

Joseph Smith also said that there are people living on the sun and moon. JS was also a member of secret society. He was not a good person.

 

[devin553344]

This again goes back to Joseph Smith himself not knowing what the prophecy specifically meant.

Sorry in advance for the multiple replies, but I am interesting in a reasoning.

If I'm to say that the God of the prophecy was being truthful with Joseph, then he was dictating two different timeline outcomes.

The one was where Joseph Smith died at which point Jesus would not return to earth when JS was 85. Thus changing the date of the second coming of the Son of Man. But then why would this change? The LDS church went on without JS. Was JS crucial to this second coming date?

The second didn't happen yet was where the Son of Man was to return to the earth when JS turned 85.

The only conclusion I can draw without calling the God of the Prophecy a liar is to say that Joseph Smiths death changed the timeline such that it was no longer necessary for the Son of Man to return when JS was 85.

Did I get those conclusions correct? Is that the LDS belief?

 

[Peter1000]

Authors can be biased for and against JSJr., yes. People can have confirmation biases and cognitive dissonances, yes.

Good information should not equate to pro-Smith authors.

Bad information should not equate to anti-Smith authors.

Let the facts speak for themselves.

Let me make a point.
There is a story that JS as a youth was involved in hunting for gold.

The anti-bias writers use words like gold-digger, and fraudulent dealings, and gangs of diggers lead by JS, etc., etc., etc. They give you no idea of the community in that time as to what was happening and the frenzy of finding gold at that time. IOW they make it sound way worse than it really was, and that is for the purpose of making JS look as bad as possible.

The pro-bias writers do acknowledge that he was hired by at least 1 man to find gold, with a group of other people that this man hired to find gold. The pro-bias writers also give you a clear picture of the histeria of that time period that there were cashes of gold and gems and other treasures buried in the area by pirates of earlier years. So there was a lot of gold hunting going on, not just by JS, but lots of people. IOW they stick closer to the facts than anti-bias writers.

So yes, JS did some gold hunting. But no, he was not praying on old men and old women to get money from them to hunt gold and then not perform. He did not have a gang of thieves going around defrauding people and being a public enemy.

 

[Peter1000]

Joseph Smith also said that there are people living on the sun and moon. JS was also a member of secret society. He was not a good person.

I was talking about the statement made by JS on post #1. Please respond to that statement. Then once we have resolved that statement, we can go to other statements he may or may not have said. Thank you. I will discuss anything with you. But we cannot just jump from one to another without solving anything. So respond to his statement made in post #1 and lets figure that out first.

 

[devin553344]

I have posted in post 33 & 38 regarding the prophecy. Can those be addressed?