No Compromise at the Border.

[GlabrousDory4]

Night vision goggles. Why didn't I think of that.

Well, it's because I voted for Hillary...we are by definition several steps ahead of the curve. If Hillary had been elected we'd already have an army of night-vision-enabled sasquatch along the Southern Border....

And Oregon would pay for it.

 

[GlabrousDory4]

Maybe he wants to stop what's on the horizon. Like the Boy Scouts used to say, "Be Prepared".

If that's the case then MAYBE we could have been prepared by not destabilizing Central American countries and introducing MS-13 to them from our prisons years ago?

But that's a good point. We SHOULD be prepared. I was never a boy scout but I assume that they addressed all problems by simply setting giant piles of cash on fire and dancing around it.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Well, it's because I voted for Hillary...we are by definition several steps ahead of the curve. If Hillary had been elected we'd already have an army of night-vision-enabled sasquatch along the Southern Border....

And Oregon would pay for it.

I was being facetious.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

If that's the case then MAYBE we could have been prepared by not destabilizing Central American countries and introducing MS-13 to them from our prisons years ago?

But that's a good point. We SHOULD be prepared. I was never a boy scout but I assume that they addressed all problems by simply setting giant piles of cash on fire and dancing around it.

We're doing that now with many useless social programs. However it should be noted that you can't just 'burn' money up. The Treasury prints more each year to make up for lost or destroyed currency.

 

[GlabrousDory4]

I was being facetious.

And you think I was responding SERIOUSLY????

Wow. Sorry, I overestimated. Sorry.

 

[GlabrousDory4]

We're doing that now with many useless social programs. However it should be noted that you can't just 'burn' money up. The Treasury prints more each year to make up for lost or destroyed currency.

So now metaphors are off the table as well? OK. The conversation is going to get pretty limited pretty fast.

But that's Trump's America: we have to talk using only concrete explicit examples without reliance on rhetorical flourish (note, I don't mean LITERAL concrete.)

 

[TheBear]

The question is often ask in the news media:

“Who will compromise on the border wall, Trump or Nancy?”

But, as far as I can tell, there is no room for compromise in this dispute.

The dispute is about paying for the wall or not paying for the wall.

There is no middle ground here for compromise.

Either the wall will be paid for or the wall will not be paid for.

So the only way this dispute will end is if one side folds completely and totally gives in to the other.

This dispute over the border wall will not end in compromise, it will only end when one side completely folds.

Will it be Trump or will it be Nancy?

We may have to wait two more years to find out.

I got a solution - electrified fence and land mines. Problem solved.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

And you think I was responding SERIOUSLY????

Wow. Sorry, I overestimated. Sorry.

I was responding to your "ahead of the curve" statement.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

So now metaphors are off the table as well? OK. The conversation is going to get pretty limited pretty fast.

But that's Trump's America: we have to talk using only concrete explicit examples without reliance on rhetorical flourish (note, I don't mean LITERAL concrete.)

Didn't you the scare quotes? There was also a hidden metaphor in there, but you have to understand economics to get it.

 

[GlabrousDory4]

I was responding to your "ahead of the curve" statement.

...yeah? And you thought I put it out there seriously? Did you not read the rest of the post? I mean the post was pretty much tongue in cheek.

(Granted I actually do think that selecting Trump was an inherently irrational choice, especially for those folks who said they chose Trump because they wanted to vote against Hillary...but c'mon, it was pretty clear I was meeting your unserious post with my own unserious....oh wait...I'm explaining a joke here. I should just leave it be. This is an absurdity piled onto dadaism.)

 

[GlabrousDory4]

Didn't you the scare quotes? There was also a hidden metaphor in there, but you have to understand economics to get it.

If by "understand economics" you mean standard issue "The Fed is ebil" conspiracy theory talking points favored among some on the extreme Right, I'll trust you on this.

 

[GlabrousDory4]

No, I said just one. Would you pay $45 to stop one murder?

When you oversimplify the calculus to this extent you end up making the argument absurd. Of COURSE any one of us would pay $45 to stop one single murder. But that isn't how this all works out.

The debate is over whether this is an appropriate use of our $45. What if we could pay $4.50 to stop 10 murders?

There may be much more effective methods of stopping that murder.

That's what the debate REALLY is about. Not whether we on the Left want people murdered or not for the lack of $45.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

...yeah? And you thought I put it out there seriously? Did you not read the rest of the post? I mean the post was pretty much tongue in cheek.

I thought the 'curve' part was jab at me personally. Straight from the shoulder...no metaphor.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The statistics we DO have are that undocumented immigrants on average commit LESS CRIME than us US citizens on a per capita basis. (SOURCE)

This is a topic I'd like to explore in depth. In short, and without regard to the legal status of immigrants, white Americans can 'afford' crime much better than minorities. As an ethnic community-at-large blacks, Hispanics, Native Americans, and Asians suffer much greater losses as a result of their criminality. That is a huge difference that is rarely considered.

Regarding illegal immigrants, they are already 'outlaws' so not surprisingly they tread more carefully.

 

[GlabrousDory4]

I thought the 'curve' part was jab at me personally. Straight from the shoulder...no metaphor.

I actually chose the phrase "ahead of the curve" so as not to make it personal. Guess when someone has a chip on their shoulder they find ways to read insults into everything.

 

[GlabrousDory4]

This is a topic I'd like to explore in depth. In short, and without regard to the legal status of immigrants, white Americans can 'afford' crime much better than minorities. As an ethnic community-at-large blacks, Hispanics, Native Americans, and Asians suffer much greater losses as a result of their criminality. That is a huge difference that is rarely considered.

And how, exactly, does that change the fact that US native citizens commit more crimes per capita than illegal immigrants?

Regarding illegal immigrants, they are already 'outlaws' so not surprisingly they tread more carefully.

So long as we know that increased crime is NOT a significant reason to build the wall.

So what does that leave?

 

[GlabrousDory4]

What was 'hidden in plain sight' is the fact that while time, effort, and materials might be wasted, the money lives on. Whenever money flows from government back to the people it's not wasted.

Are you saying it is IMPOSSIBLE for the US Government to waste money?

Wow.

Well, then, if you truly and honestly believe it is impossible to waste money then I guess there's ZERO reason to not build the wall out of SOLID PLATINUM.

 

[Speedwell]

So long as we know that increased crime is NOT a significant reason to build the wall.

So what does that leave?

The main thing: that these immigrants represent an existential threat to "American" culture.

 

[GlabrousDory4]

The main thing: that these immigrants represent an existential threat to "American" culture.

Yup....there's the key factor. The nebulous threat of "the OTHER".

It must be an outcome of the length of human lives and our inability as a society to remember how this works out. My wife was born and grew up in a tiny town in the Midwest that was MASSIVELY overrun by German immigrants in the 19th century. At one point in the beginning of the 20th century this little town in the midwest it was more common to hear German spoken than english. My wife was 2nd generation born in America but by the time her dad was born he couldn't even speak German.

The town kept a lot of its German aspect but became 100% American within a generation. If it weren't for the "german dancers" in their high school and their German surnames you'd be hardpressed to see them as anything but full-on American. By the same token there's a unique addition to plain old Midwestern life with a German influence.

Go to St. Louis and see how the Italian immigration of the 19th century made for an amazingly rich community (some of the best italian restaurants I've ever experienced were in the midwest because 150 years ago a bunch of Italian miners were brought in to help the US mine owners break strikes.

During WWI there was even a drive by the US government to keep people from referring to themselves as "hyphenated" (ie "German-American")...during WWI! I saw a poster of this at the Library of Congress. Nearly 100 years before people today got in a kerfluffle over "African-American" or "Hispanic-American"

We go through all this over and over and over again. And we don't seem capable of learning.

 

[Queller]

A great big ugly wall sends a better message: Don't even try it!

Seems like you're more interested in appearance than effectiveness.