No Compromise at the Border.

[wing2000]

Let's build the wall and see.

We might copy Australia and haul them off to some island or tug them back where they came from.

...based on Trump's "brain storm" of the day?

You do realize NO ONE in the US Government has been able to do any cost analysis for his latest suggestion? -- a "a steel slat wall" built with US produced steel"?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You've told us the plan for open borders is something you see between the lines of proposals by Democrats, and now that Democrats have no proposals. Interesting.

I'll change proposals to rhetoric.

 

[EpiscipalMe]

I'll change proposals to rhetoric.

In that case, point to Democrat rhetoric that supports open borders. And, I am talking about leaders who can credibly he said to be speaking for the party - not fringe members. I already showed you the rhetoric from the official Democrat party platform - no open borders. And, Democrat leadership has come out again open borders again and again.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

...based on Trump's "brain storm" of the day?

You do realize NO ONE in the US Government has been able to do any cost analysis for his latest suggestion? -- a "a steel slat wall" built with US produced steel"?

I won't defend that. I want hardened steel chain link with razor wire on top. The point is to get something built and defended that will stop the border crossings.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

In that case, point to Democrat rhetoric that supports open borders. And, I am talking about leaders who can credibly he said to be speaking for the party - not fringe members. I already showed you the rhetoric from the official Democrat party platform - no open borders. And, Democrat leadership has come out again open borders again and again.

A border that looks like Swiss cheese is an open border by any definition, and that's how the Dems want it to remain it seems. They aren't fighting the wall because of the cost, but because they fear it's effectiveness, and of course because it's Trump's 'baby'.

 

[EpiscipalMe]

A border that looks like Swiss cheese is an open border by any definition, and that's how the Dems want it to remain it seems. They aren't fighting the wall because of the cost, but because they fear it's effectiveness, and of course because it's Trump's 'baby'.

I keep asking (a futile request, apparently) for you to provide actual evidence that the Democrats want open borders. Instead, you respond with right wing rhetoric that has no basis in fact.

No serious Democrat wants a “Swiss cheese” border. There are disagreements on how best to secure the border, how much it should cost, how legal immigration should be structured, and what to do with the Dreamers.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I keep asking (a futile request, apparently) for you to provide actual evidence that the Democrats want open borders. Instead, you respond with right wing rhetoric that has no basis in fact.

No serious Democrat wants a “Swiss cheese” border. There are disagreements on how best to secure the border, how much it should cost, how legal immigration should be structured, and what to do with the Dreamers.

The Democrats are trying to find ways to accept more immigrants than we can reasonably assimilate. They want legal immigration, but unlimited legal immigration. That's one definition of 'open borders'.

Fences keep illegals out.
Dems don't want fences.
Therefore......

 

[EpiscipalMe]

The Democrats are trying to find ways to accept more immigrants than we can reasonably assimilate. They want legal immigration, but unlimited legal immigration. That's one definition of 'open borders'.

Fences keep illegals out.
Dems don't want fences.
Therefore......

Fences don’t necessarily keep illegals out - that has been discussed numerous times. Nor is a physical wall the only way to secure the border. Nor is illegally crossing the border how most illegals get in (more than half overstay visas).

And still no actual quotes from actual Democrat leaders - just more right wing spin.

 

[Speedwell]

The Democrats are trying to find ways to accept more immigrants than we can reasonably assimilate. They want legal immigration, but unlimited legal immigration. That's one definition of 'open borders'.

I know that's the spin you are trying to put on it, but you need to guard against believing your own propaganda.

Fences keep illegals out.
Dems don't want fences.
Therefore......

Faulty logic like that won't help you, either. And, of course, Democrats have nothing against fences, either, or they would advocate having the existing fences torn down, rather than just rejecting the notion of a 35-foot coast-to coast monolith to replace them.

 

[cow451]

The Democrats are trying to find ways to accept more immigrants than we can reasonably assimilate. They want legal immigration, but unlimited legal immigration. That's one definition of 'open borders'.

Fences keep illegals out.
Dems don't want fences.
Therefore......

Fences do keep some out. It will keep out the Visa overstayers and others that defeat the barriers.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Fences don’t necessarily keep illegals out - that has been discussed numerous times.

I know, and it isn't true. Why don't we build a good fence and find out. Let's see if those who don't think fences work can get through one with armed guards staring at them from the other side.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Fences do keep some out. It will keep out the Visa overstayers and others that defeat the barriers.

Overstays came in legally, then remained here illegally. Different problem needing a different solution.

 

[cow451]

The President will address the nation tonight:

One thing that might happen (heard a discussion on NPR) is for Trump to declare a *cough* “national emergency” and steal, er, reappropriate other money and the military to rehab and upgrade existing fencing. Then he can cave, er, agree with Congress on reopening the government.

Trump then declares “victory”, his base eats it like pie. The Congressional Dems then go to court to challenge his authority to take such action.

 

[Speedwell]

Overstays didn't 'defeat' the barriers. They came in legally, then remained here illegally.

So it's OK if you fly in, but if you walk across the border your're a threat to national security? That's why we think The Great Wall of Trump is a racist monument, because it only keeps out poor latino peasants. Unless, of course, you build it high enough to stop airplanes and extend it far enough into the sea to stop narco-subs.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The President will address the nation tonight:

One thing that might happen (heard a discussion on NPR) is for Trump to declare a *cough* “national emergency” and steal, er, reappropriate other money and the military to rehab and upgrade existing fencing. Then he can cave, er, agree with Congress on reopening the government.

Trump then declares “victory”, his base eats it like pie. The Congressional Dems then go to court to challenge his authority to take such action.

Hey, whatever it takes. Trump is also a pragmatist.

 

[cow451]

Hey, whatever it takes. Trump is also a pragmatist.

Were he a pragmatist we wouldn’t need a shutdown and an end run around the legislative process.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

That's why we think The Great Wall of Trump is a racist monument, because it only keeps out poor latino peasants.

It may be discriminatory, but certainly not racist. We don't need more uneducated workers who quickly fill up the welfare rolls (which are bursting at the seams already).

 

[Speedwell]

The President will address the nation tonight:

One thing that might happen (heard a discussion on NPR) is for Trump to declare a *cough* “national emergency” and steal, er, reappropriate other money and the military to rehab and upgrade existing fencing. Then he can cave, er, agree with Congress on reopening the government.

Trump then declares “victory”, his base eats it like pie. The Congressional Dems then go to court to challenge his authority to take such action.

Once he invokes those powers, he has no need to "cave" to anyone. He can reopen the government unilaterally, he has control of the media (including the internet) and can suspend habeus corpus it will. As soon as some group like Antifa stages a provocative protest he can use the army to make a bloodbath of it and his power will become absolute.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Were he a pragmatist we wouldn’t need a shutdown and an end run around the legislative process.

Why not. Obama did it many times, and not a single democrat objected.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Once he invokes those powers, he has no need to "cave" to anyone. He can reopen the government unilaterally, he has control of the media (including the internet) and can suspend habeus corpus it will. As soon as some group like Antifa stages a provocative protest he can use the army to make a bloodbath of it and his power will become absolute.

Until the next election.