Why is the day of worship controversial?

[LoveGodsWord]

At best, you are inconsistent. In this post you make the case for a distinction among the commandments of God, yet in succeeding posts you make the case for the necessity of keeping all of God's commandments. Which is it? Are you permitted to ignore some of God's commandments as not being "ETERNAL LAWS OF GOD" or are all of God's commandments to be obeyed as of equal importance?

Well none of that is true. You are confused my friend. Do you do the SHADOW laws of animal sacrificial that HEBREWS 10:1-16 is referring to? How do you know what sin is? If you do not know what the OLD COVENANT is how can you know what the NEW COVENANT is that the OLD COVENANT points to?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

OK We're dead to sin. My mistake.

Indeed it was your mistake thankyou for admitting it. As the scriptures pointed out we are dead to sin not dead to God's LAW. The only purpose God's LAW (10 Commandments) has is to give us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken and the KNOWLEDGE of RIGHTEOUSNESS when OBEYED by faith *PSALMS 119:172. All those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is the not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. We are all sick with sin and need a Physician *MATTHEW 9:12-13. JESUS says arise take up your bed and walk. I believe him. How about you?

If we are dead to sin, the law has no value.

God's LAW (10 Commandments) always has value. It's value is the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172

Since Rom 7:2 says the husband died we're free from the law of the husband. Unless the husband is alive there's no law. We're baptized into the death of Christ. So what ever the statement is dead men do nothing.

The topic and example of marriage and adultery is used in ROMANS 7:1-4. If the woman is still married to her hisband who is alive she commits adultery. If the first husband dies and the women is married to another she does not commit adultery.

Being dead to the law is in reference to not breaking it.

ROMANS 7:4-5
[4], Wherefore, my brethren, ye also were made dead to the law through the body of Christ; that ye should be joined to another, even to him who was raised from the dead, that we might bring forth fruit unto God.

NOTE: The reference back to...

ROMANS 6:1-6
[1], What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
[2], God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
[3], Know you not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
[4], Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[5], For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
[6], Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that from now on we should not serve sin.
[7], For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Continuing with ROMANS 7:5 continues the thought from v4 that if we are not dead to sin and continue living in the flesh will bring forth the fruit unto death *ROMANS 6:23; ROMANS 8:13

[5], For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were through the law, wrought in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

They're also dead to every thing including the law.

We are only dead to the law by not livingin the flesh. If we are living in the flesh (continuing in sin) then we are not dead to the law because through the law is the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is *ROMANS 3:20.

But we no longer serve sin, therefore we no longer have the motions of sin. I didn't say our mortal body doesn't sin. It isn't our mortal body that died and was raised to life.Yes and 7:6 says we are now delivered from the law. I can find no verse that says we're delivered from sin. Suppose you do.

Look at the CONTEXT God's LAW is not ABOLISHED the penalty of it is to all those who have FAITH in God's WORD. We are delivered from the Law of sin and death *RONMANS 7:23-25; ROMANS 8:1-4. We are delivered from the penalty and condemnatio of the law which is death *ROMANS 8:1-4; ROMANS 6:23.

Hope this helps.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Then you admit the law is changed. The law is a single indivisible unit. Jeremiah says the new covenant is unprecedented and not like the previous covenant. This means means nothing like it has ever been. The covenant law has been set aside.

You are a little confused here. It is the COVENANTS that contain the laws that have changed. No more SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 that have been fulfilled in Christ and God's plan of salvation in the NEW (Read HEBREWS 7-10). The NEW COVENANT is nothing like the OLD COVENANT. For example do you practice sin offereings and circumcision from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT? On the other hand God's ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments) have the same role it always has and that is to give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. Strangely enough God's 4th commandment is one of the 10 commandments. God's WORD tells us that if we break any one of God's commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. God's WORD says that all those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23.

 

[mmksparbud]

As I said, I wonder how many sda members will make it to heaven, and not be condemned by their thoughts

1Co_3:20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
Heb_4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Again:
Heb_7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

As I said---few of any denomination.

When your thoughts are stayed on Jesus--you won't have a problem.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I've no idea what you're talking about.

Not sure how I can make it any clearer. Your earlier posts in response to my posts on ROMANS 6-8 did not respond to the content and scriptures provided except to make claims in your own words not founded on the scriptures or to make claims and arguments (strawman) no one was talking about or claiming. You are still to respond to the posts and scriputures that disagreed with you. Except you have admitted your mistake that we are to die to sin now and not the law as posted earlier which is good.

I think the posts you're talking about clearly show complete quotes of your post with my thoughts.

EXACTLY! That is what I am saying. They are your opinions and they are not supported by the scriptures and have not addressed the posts and the scriptures you are trying to respond to. Thanks for being honest. You should understand what I am saying now then. You have still not responded to the posts and the scriptures in them that disagree with your opinions.

That simply can't be ignoring your posts.

Responding to a post and the scriptures in them is different to responding to a post and giving your opinion about what the post is saying. From this view is what I am meaning as you have not addressed the post and the scriptures in them that disagree with you. If your not addressing the post and the scriptures in them in my view it is ignoring the post and the scriptures as you have not shown how the post and scriptures that disagree with you are not correct.

Your idea was and still is to reject Rom 7:6 in part or whole.

Nope not at all. I believe all of ROMANS 7:6 not your interpretation of it. This was shown in the context you leave out being v5 and the surrounding scriptures from ROMANS 6; ROMANS 7 and ROMANS 8. This being addressed in some detail 1. Here; 2. Here; 3 Here and 4 Here. Romans 7:6 is talking about being delievered from the CONDEMNATION and PENALTY of God's LAW *ROMANS 8:1-4, not something that is HOLY; JUST and GOOD that gives us the KNOWLEDGE of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 7:12; ROMANS 7:7; ROMANS 3:20. Your interpretation cotradicts the scriptures. Mine is in complete harmoney with God's WORD. Can you see your error here brother?

The last half of the verse doesn't mean the first half is no longer true. Please note the semicolon.

No one has claimed that the first half of v6 is no longer true. The conflict is in your interpretation not mine. Mine is in perfect harmony with the scripture. Also, you do know that there is no commas, semicolans full stops in the Greek right? These were added in by the english translators.

Hope this helps.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

BTW all any one has to do is open two windows in CF and compare the two posts to see I quoted every single word you posted except the repeated Bible versions verse.

Quoting what I have said as shown earlier is not the problem. Your earlier posts in response to my posts on ROMANS 6-8 did not respond to the content and scriptures provided except to make claims in your own words not founded on the scriptures or to make claims and arguments (strawman) no one was talking about or claiming. You are still to respond to the posts and scriputures that disagreed with you. Except you have admitted your mistake that we are to die to sin now and not the law as you posted earlier which is good.

Hope this helps

 

[LoveGodsWord]

That isn't clear by my post? You must be putting me on. The truth is you must avoid that verse like the plague. It's a death sentence to your position.

Not at all I believe it. The NEW COVENANT is not like the OLD COVENANT. Your confusion is what you think the OLD COVENANT is as shown in earlier posts and the scriptures in them. You do not know what the OLD COVENANT is and if you do not know what the OLD COVENANT is how can you understand what the NEW COVENANT is that the OLD COVENANT pointed to? Your error is that you mix up the SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 with God's ETERNAL law (10 Commandments) that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. God's 4th commandment is one of the 10 commandments. God's WORD tells us that if we break any one of God's commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. God's WORD says that all those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

So why are you referencing Rom 3:4?

Because only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. Jesus says those that KNOWINGLY follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God are not following God *MATTHEW 15:3-9. Who should we follow, God or man ACTS 5:29; ROMANS 3:4?

 

[Timothy416]

1Co_3:20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
Heb_4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Again:
Heb_7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

As I said---few of any denomination.

When your thoughts are stayed on Jesus--you won't have a problem.

It is like giving a child a book to read that must have questions answered concerning it to pass an English literature exam. Though the child could read the book, they would not be mature enough to understand enough to pass the exam.

Paul stated the ten commandments were the letter that kills, the ministry of death and condemnation. If he had your understanding of the ten commandments, or other sda members understanding, he would never have written that

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Yes and the sabbath is a physical type of a spiritual issue. God said they would never enter His rest, yet they kept the physical 7th day.

Once again your error here is that you mix up the SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 with God's ETERNAL law (10 Commandments) that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. God's 4th commandment is one of God's ETERNAL LAWS (10 commandments) that give us the KNOWLEDGE of what sin is if knowingly broken.

God's WORD tells us that if we break any one of God's commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. God's WORD says that all those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23.

Yep many are going to be disappointed come judgment day who had the chance to hear God's WORD but tuned away from it to live a life of KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN *MATTHEW 7:22-23

 

[mmksparbud]

You people are so naïve. It is like giving a child a book to read that must have questions answered concerning it to pass an English literature exam. Though the child could read the book, they would not be mature enough to understand enough to pass the exam.

Paul stated the ten commandments were the letter that kills, the ministry of death and condemnation. If he had your understanding of the ten commandments, or other sda members understanding, he would never have written that

It is preferred to quote the scriptures that are being referred to. Paul certainly understood the difference between the sacrificial laws that were a shadow of things to come and those that weren't. The 10 never were a shadow of things to come--those were the priestly ones.
You are free to believe as you wish--no one will ever stand before any SDA for their salvation. We are on here to explain why we believe as we do, not demanding for anyone to do the same, that is between the individual and God. We may not pass your exam--but I am interested only in passing the exam of Christ--this is the only book I want to be in:
Rev_3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

 

[Timothy416]

It is preferred to quote the scriptures that are being referred to. Paul certainly understood the difference between the sacrificial laws that were a shadow of things to come and those that weren't. The 10 never were a shadow of things to come--those were the priestly ones.
You are free to believe as you wish--no one will ever stand before any SDA for their salvation. We are on here to explain why we believe as we do, not demanding for anyone to do the same, that is between the individual and God. We may not pass your exam--but I am interested only in passing the exam of Christ--this is the only book I want to be in:
Rev_3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
2Cor3:6-9

 

[mmksparbud]

Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
2Cor3:6-9

Not of the letter but of the spirit.
Rom_2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Rom_7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
2Co_3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.


Rev_16:5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
1Jn_3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn_2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

1Ti 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
1Ti 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Letter:
Mat_5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

Sprit:
Mat_5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Letter: Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Spirit:
1Jn_3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
1Jn_4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?


1Jn_2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

It is the righteousness of Jesus that works in us, not our own.

 

[Timothy416]

Not of the letter but of the spirit.
Rom_2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Rom_7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
2Co_3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.


Rev_16:5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
1Jn_3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn_2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

1Ti 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
1Ti 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Letter:
Mat_5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

Sprit:
Mat_5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Letter: Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Spirit:
1Jn_3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
1Jn_4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?


1Jn_2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

It is the righteousness of Jesus that works in us, not our own.

If ever you want to stop just quoting the letter, with understanding and demands that bears no reality to yours or anyone elses life. If you ever want to stop insisting people must obey the letter neither you or anyone else can fully obey to enter heaven. If ever you want to move on and get serious in understanding, rather than just post as you are, let me know and we can continue

 

[mmksparbud]

If ever you want to stop just quoting the letter, with understanding and demands that bears no reality to yours or anyone elses life. If you ever want to stop insisting people must obey the letter neither you or anyone else can fully obey to enter heaven. If ever you want to move on and get serious in understanding, rather than just post as you are, let me know and we can continue

I am not insisting that people do anything. I am stating my position on a topic as you are stating yours. I am quoting scripture, the bases for my believes, not merely my personal, unfounded opinion. I have no need to banter philosophy, but prefer a thus saith the Lord for my believes.

 

[Timothy416]

I am not insisting that people do anything. I am stating my position on a topic as you are stating yours. I am quoting scripture, the bases for my believes, not merely my personal, unfounded opinion. I have no need to banter philosophy, but prefer a thus saith the Lord for my believes.

You are reduced to copy pasting scripture with understanding that bears no reality to yours or anyone elses life. Because all you can see is the selective letter, not the spiritual message, and what is at the centre of that message contained in the letter you quote

 

[Timothy416]

I asked an sda member on another thread if a persons thoughts could send them to hell for they can break the ten commandments in their thoughts. I got no answer. For in truth, sda members do not reason that way. Shallow understanding of the bible brings shallow understanding of what is required to obey the letter of the Ten Commandments. As they say: Break one you break them all

 

[mmksparbud]

You are reduced to copy pasting scripture with understanding that bears no reality to yours or anyone elses life. Because all you can see is the selective letter, not the spiritual message, and what is at the centre of that message contained in the letter you quote

I just gave you examples of the spiritual application in our daily lives. Perhaps your daily life is different from the rest of humanities. I thought Jesus said it plainly enough. What part of that was not clear?

 

[Timothy416]

I just gave you examples of the spiritual application in our daily lives. Perhaps your daily life is different from the rest of humanities. I thought Jesus said it plainly enough. What part of that was not clear?

Your understanding of what is entailed to obey the ten commandments is not clear, it is shallow

 

[mmksparbud]

I asked an sda member on another thread if a persons thoughts could send them to hell for they can break the ten commandments in their thoughts. I got no answer. For in truth, sda members do not reason that way. Shallow understanding of the bible brings shallow understanding of what is required to obey the letter of the Ten Commandments. As they say: Break one you break them all

Why do you select only SDA's? A persons thoughts is what the God of the universe does read. They reveal the true heart. A person who has his mind of Jesus doesn't have to worry about his thoughts.
And it is not us who say break one you break them all, Jesus did.:

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Our righteousness far exceeds the righteousness of the Pharisees, for it is the righteousness of Jesus that is accounted to us.
Mat_19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
Mar_9:23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.

We do not serve a weak, puny God.
Heb_7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.