The pre-advent Investigative Judgment of Daniel 7

[DaDad]

Why do you keep insisting that Jesus had sin - each time I post that scripture says He did not?
I find your logic illusive at that point.

It's not MY logic, it's YOURS. Did you miss Lev. 4:3? You insist that mashiyach is a reference to Jesus, -- so what's the problem?
DaDad

 

[DaDad]

The 70th week still has yet to be fulfilled, cannot happen until the prince to come, the Antichrist, is set up and tries to destroy Israel!

Ummmmmm, I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but the seventieth week is complete, and all we're waiting for is when the destroyer "shall come".

Perhaps to better understand the 9th Chapter, we should start at the beginning and work our way to the conclusion. -- Or we can randomly throw things against the wall and hope something might stick.

Thanks,
DaDad

 

[YeshuaFan]

Ummmmmm, I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but the seventieth week is complete, and all we're waiting for is when the destroyer "shall come".

Perhaps to better understand the 9th Chapter, we should start at the beginning and work our way to the conclusion. -- Or we can randomly throw things against the wall and hope something might stick.

Thanks,
DaDad

70th week refers to the time of Jacob' troubles, to Israel under wrath of Antichrist, yet to happen!

 

[BobRyan]

It's not MY logic, it's YOURS. Did you miss Lev. 4:3?

Lev 4:3 says nothing about Christ being a sinner. How is that not obvious?

You insist that mashiyach is a reference to Jesus,

I also admit Hebrew is a "high context language" as we saw in my previous posts. I think we both agree that I pointed that out.

For example in Daniel 7 "Son of man" is Christ - God the Son.

But in Is 56:2 it does not mean "Christ".

How is this not obvious? What am I missing?

 

[BobRyan]

Ummmmmm, I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but the seventieth week is complete,

True the 70 weeks of Daniel 9 ended 2000 years ago just like the 70 years of Daniel 9:1-5 ended 2500 years ago...all Bible timelines are contiguous within their own timeline. No exceptions.

The "reason" we even have the Daniel 9 details on the Daniel 7 thread is because Daniel 9 uses day-for-year in its 70 weeks (of years)

 

[liberty of conscience]

It's not MY logic, it's YOURS. Did you miss Lev. 4:3? You insist that mashiyach is a reference to Jesus, -- so what's the problem?
DaDad

Let's consider the text in English:

Lev 4:3 If the priest that is anointed do sin according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his sin, which he hath sinned, a young bullock without blemish unto the LORD for a sin offering.

What is the first word, in English?

Christ Jesus is mentioned in Leviticus 4:3 in type. He is represented by the "young bullock without blemish" (ie. no sin, spotless).

What does scripture say:

"was in all points tempted like as [we are yet] without sin" [Hebrews 4:15],

"holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners" [Hebrews 7:26]

that "holy thing" [Luke 1:35]

and "holy child" [Acts 4:27,30]

born of the "Holy Ghost" [Matthew 1:18; Luke 1:35],

where even though He came in the likeness [Romans 8:3; Philippians 2:7; etc] of sinful flesh, yet He was without sin:

"...lamb shall be without blemish..." [Exodus 12:5]

"… But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none." [Matthew 26:60]

"...the innocent blood..." [Matthew 27:4]

"...For he knew that for envy they had delivered him. ..." [Matthew 27:18]

"… Have thou nothing to do with that just man …" [Matthew 27:19]

"… Why, what evil hath he done? …" [Matthew 27:23]

"… I am innocent of the blood of this just person …" [Matthew 27:24]

"The said Pilate … I find no fault in this man.” [Luke 23:4]

"… Said unto them, Ye have brought this man unto me, as one that perverteth the people: and, behold, I, having examined him before you, have found no fault in this man touching those things whereof ye accuse him:" [Luke 23:14]

"… what evil hath he done? I have found no cause of death in him ..." [Luke 23:22]

"...lo, nothing worthy of death is done unto him." [Luke 23:15]

"...this man hath done nothing amiss." [Luke 23:41]

"… Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, Certainly this was a righteous man." [Luke 23:47]

"...I have kept my Father's commandments..." [John 15:10]

"...I find in him no fault [at all]." [John 18:38]

"...I find no fault in him." [John 19:4]

"...I find no fault in him." [John 19:6]

"...the obedience of one..." [Romans 5:19]

"...who knew no sin..." [2 Corinthians 5:21]

"...without sin." [Hebrews 4:15]

"...[who is] holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners..." [Hebrews 7:26]

"Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:" [1 Peter 2:22]

"...in him is no sin." [1 John 3:5]

"How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God..." [Hebrews 9:4;p]

 

[liberty of conscience]

Yep, and when my wife ..

MOST of us are -- Smarter than GOD!
DaDad

That is not a scriptural reply/response. It is not an "it is written", nor "thus saith the Lord", which I have kindly provided to you, in quite some detail.

I am not smarter than God (JEHOVAH Elohiym), and this is wisdom.

 

[liberty of conscience]

That would then be a JW's doctrine as well.

Actually no. The WTS/JW doctrine, have a mixed Roman Catholic/Reformation doctrine. They took the clear studies of the Reformation, and went half-way back to Roman Catholicism in it, by reducing Michael Archangel to a mere creature, as Roman Catholicism does.

The teaching of the Reformation, and even by those before, is that Jesus is Michael Archangel, Deity, eternal Son of the Father, see for yourself:

Download the full study and all historical quotations in original language (where possible) here (See Chapters [Full quotations] Michael the archangel [11] - Messengers of the LORD & the Reformation & etc & [Short list] Michael the archangel [X2] - Appendix 2 – The Short Historical List of those who taught Jesus is Michael ):

TinyUpload.com - best file hosting solution, with no limits, totaly free

[*This list is by far from complete, though representative, and may be added to by any who will continue to diligently search the historical records in various languages and places. By no means, is any source listed herein, rare though they be, that actually denies the Eternal Deity and Godhood of Jesus in any way, agreed to, nor herein promoted as correct or to be advocated, but is rather than scripturally heretical and to be roundly shown to be in error in the love of Jesus.]

Ellen G. White (AD November 26, 1827 – AD July 16, 1915) – Jesus is “Michael”

Melito of Sardis (wrote AD 165 – AD 175, died c. AD 180 – Jesus is “among the angels, archangel”

Roman Catholic Encyclopedia: Jesus is the Angel of the Great Counsel, the Angel of the LORD, etc

Augustine of Hippo (AD 13 November 354 – AD 28 August 430) Jesus is the “Angel of the Testament”, etc

Irenaeus (AD early 2nd century – c. AD 202) Jesus is the one that came down and spoke to the Patriarchs under the designation “Angel”.

Titus Flavius Clemens (Greek: Κλήμης ὁ Ἀλεξανδρεύς; c. 150 – c. 215), known as Clement of Alexandria – Jesus is the “Angel of the Great Counsel”.

Justin Martyr, also known as Saint Justin (c. AD 100 – AD 165) – Jesus is called “Angel”, etc

Eusebius (AD 260/265 – AD 339/340); also called Eusebius of Caesarea and Eusebius Pamphili, - Jesus is called the “Angel of the mighty counsel”.

Quintus Septimius Florens Tertullianus, anglicised as Tertullian (c. AD 160 – c. AD 225 AD) – Jesus is the ‘Angel’ that spake to Moses from the midst of the bush.

Roman Catholic New American Bible with Footnotes [along with Douay Rheims], 1986: - Jesus is the “Lord’s Angel”, and “Angel of the LORD”, and etc.

Charles Buck (AD 1771 – AD 11 Aug 1815) Jesus is called “Angel” and “Archangel”.

John Butterworth, minister (born AD 1727- died AD 1803) – Jesus is “Michael”.

Alexander Cruden (AD May 31, 1699 – AD November 1, 1770) – Jesus is called “Angel”.

Thomas Taylor (AD 15 May 1758 – AD 1 November 1835) – Jesus is “Michael”.

Patrick Fairbairn (AD 28 January 1805 – AD 6 August 1874) – Jesus is “Michael”.

William Baxter Godbey (AD June 3, 1833 - AD September 12, 1920) cites Dr. Clarke that Jesus is “Michael”.

Matthew Pool[e] – (AD 1624 – AD 1679) – Jesus is “Michael”.

Sir William Smith (AD 20 May 1813 – AD 7 October 1893) – Jesus is “Michael” and cites others Luther, Hengstenberg, etc.

Thomas Coke (AD 9 September 1747 – AD 2 May 1814) – Jesus is “Michael”.

John Guyse (AD 1680 - AD 1761) – Jesus is “Michael”, and called “Angel”, etc

Elhanan Winchester (AD 1751 in Brookline, Massachusetts – AD April 18, 1797) – Jesus is “Michael”.

George Sale (AD 1697, Canterbury, Kent, England – AD 1736, London, England) ; George Psalmanazar (AD 1679? - AD 1763),; Archibald Bower (AD 17 January 1686 – AD 3 September 1766) ; George D. Shelvocke (baptised AD 1 April 1675 - AD 30 November 1742) ; John Campbell (AD 1708 - AD 1775); John Swinton (AD 1703 - AD 1777) – Jesus is “Michael”.

The Church of England Magazine. Under the superintendence of the clergymen of the United Church of England and Ireland. Vol. IV. No. 85; January 6, 1838. By James Burns. – Jesus is “Michael”.

Robert Hawker (AD 1753 – AD 1827) – Jesus is “Michael” and “Archangel”.

Samuel Horsley (AD 15 September 1733 – AD 4 October 1806) – Jesus is “Michael”.

The London Encyclopedia, or Universal Dictionary … 1839. – Jesus is “Michael”.

The Zondervan Encyclopedia of the Bible; Volume 4; M-P, Revised, Full-Color Edition; - cites that many Protestants, Hengstenberg, etc that Jesus is “Michael”.

Zondervan NIV Study Bible (Fully Revised): Wide Margin Loose-Leaf Edition; copyright 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society. – Jesus is the “angel of the Lord”, etc.

Hermann Witsius (Herman Wits or in Latin Hermannus Witsius) (AD 12 February 1636 – AD 22 October 1708) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Reinerus Vogelsangius (AD 1610 - AD 1679) – Jesus is “Michael”.

Johannes Cloppenburg (AD 1592 - AD 1652) - Jesus is Michael the “Angel of the Lord”.

Ralph Griffiths (AD c.1720 – AD September 28, 1803) – Jesus is “Michael”.

Campegius Vitringa Sr., or Kempe Vitringa[1] (born at Leeuwarden, May 16, 1659; died at Franeker, March 31, 1722) – Jesus is “Michael” the “Archangel”.

Martin Luther (AD 10 November 1483 – AD 18 February 1546) – Jesus is “Michael”.

Philipp Melanchthon (AD 16 February 1497 – AD 19 April 1560) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Johann Wigand (ca. AD 1523 - AD 21 October 1587) – Jesus is “Michael”.

David Chytraeus or Chyträus (26 February 1530, Ingelfingen – 25 June 1600, Rostock) – Jesus is “Michael”.

Giovanni Diodati or Deodati (AD 6 June 1576 – AD 3 October 1649) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Andrew Willet (AD 1562 – AD 4 December 1621) - Jesus is “Michael”.

William Miller (AD February 15, 1782 – AD December 20, 1849) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Carl L. Beckwith, - Jesus is “Michael”.

Robert W. Bertram (AD 27 March 1921 - AD 13 March 2003) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Dr. Frances N. Lee (AD 1934 - AD Friday 23rd December, 2011) - - Jesus is “Michael”.

David Harold Chilton (AD 1951 – AD 1997) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Milton Spenser Terry (AD 1840 - AD 1914) - Jesus is “Michael”.

George Whitefield - December 27 [O.S. December 16] 1714 – September 30, 1770) speaks by symbol, Jesus is our “Michael”.

James Petigru Boyce (AD 1827 – AD 1888) citing John Pye-Smith, Jesus is “probably” “Michael”.

The Rev Dr John Pye-Smith FRS, FGS (AD 25 May 1774 - AD 5 February 1851) - Jesus is “probably” “Michael”.

Christmas Evans (AD 25 December 1766 – AD 19 July 1838) – Jesus is “Michael”.

The Christian Gleaner and Domestic Magazine
The Christian Gleaner and Domestic Magazine for 1825, Volume II; London; published by B. J. Holdsworth, 18, St. Paul's Churchyard. – Jesus is “Michael”.

Carl Ferdinand Wilhelm Walther (AD October 25, 1811 – AD May 7, 1887) - Jesus is “Michael”.

John Gill (AD 23 November 1697 – AD 14 October 1771) – Jesus is “Michael”.

Charles Spurgeon (AD 9 June 1834 – AD 31 January 1892) Jesus is the “True Michael”.

Matthew Henry (AD 18 October 1662 – AD 22 June 1714) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Thomas Adams (AD 1583 – AD 1653) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Heinrich [Henry] Bullinger (AD 18 July 1504 – AD 17 September 1575) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Isaac Watts (AD 17 July 1674 – AD 25 November 1748) - Jesus is “Michael”.

William Kinkade (AD 22nd Sept. 1783 - AD 20th Sept. 1832) [became Arian later; Heresy] - Jesus is “Michael”.

Jonathan Edwards (AD October 5, 1703 – AD March 22, 1758) - Jesus is “Michael”.

1560/1599 Geneva Study Bible- Jesus is “Michael”.

John [Jean] Calvin (born Jehan Cauvin: AD 10 July 1509 – AD 27 May 1564) - Jesus is “Michael” and does not disagree with others who see the same.

Francois Du Jon aka Franciscus Junius (born François du Jon, AD 1 May 1545 – AD 13 October 1602) - Jesus is “Michael”.

John Wesley (AD 28 June [O.S. 17 June] 1703 – AD 2 March 1791) - Jesus is “Michael”.

John Brown of Haddington (AD 1722 – AD 19 June 1787) - Jesus is “Michael”.

James Wood (AD 1751 – AD 1840) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Ernst Wilhelm Theodor Herrmann Hengstenberg (AD October 20, 1802, Fröndenberg – AD May 28, 1869, Berlin- Jesus is “Michael”.

Wikipedia, The Online Encyclopedia – Michael (Archangel); subsection - “Protestant Views” – cites John A. Lees, and Hengstenberg, Jesus is “Michael”.

International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, comment on section “Michael” by John A. Lees. - Jesus is “Michael”.

John Bunyan (AD 28 November 1628 – AD 31 August 1688) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Henry Ainsworth (AD 1571 – AD 1622) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Thomas Watson (c. AD 1620 – AD 1686) - Jesus is “Michael”.

James Glasgow D.D. (AD 27 May 1805 – AD 1890 ) - Jesus is “Michael”.

James Hastings (AD 1852 – AD 1922) and George Cunninghame Monteath Douglas (AD 1826 – AD 1904- Jesus is “Michael”.

Thomas Hobbes Scott (17 April 1783 – 1 January 1860) - Jesus may indeed be “Michael” as “many” others say.

Hezekiah Holland (born ca. AD 1617, living AD 1660) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Adam Clarke (AD 1760 or AD 1762 – AD 1832) - Jesus is “Michael”.

George Balderston Kidd (Cottingham, near Hull, AD 28 July 1794 – AD 1852) - Jesus is “Michael”.

James Durham (AD 1622 – AD 1658) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Bryce Johnston (AD 1747 - AD 1805) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Vine's Expository Dictionary, by William Edwy Vine Section: "archangel” – the “archangels” “voice” is the “voice” of Jesus.

Thomas Haweis (AD 1 January 1734 - AD February 11, 1820) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Abingdon Bible Commentary, 1929; Editor, Edwin Lewis (AD 1881 – AD 1959) was an American Methodist theologian primarily associated with Drew University in New Jersey. Others involved - Frederick Carl Eiselen; David G. Downey. - Jesus is “Michael”.

Johann [John] Peter Lange (AD 10 April 1802 in Sonneborn (now a part of Wuppertal) – AD 9 July 1884), and Elijah Richard Craven (AD Mar. 28 1824, in Washington D.C. - AD Jan. 5 1908, in Philadelphia, Pa) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Thomas Robinson (AD 1813/14 - AD 1890) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Johann Friedrich Haug ((AD * 1680, AD † 18. May 1753) and The Berlenburger Bibel [aka 'Berleb. Bible', 'Berleburger Bibel', etc.] is in the years AD 1726 - AD 1742) - Jesus is “Michael”.

 

[liberty of conscience]

May I also ask you if there was a 1755 earthquake, a dark day in 1780, and an 1833 meteor shower so as to fulfill Bible prophecy?

Yes (x3). Would you like to discuss that from scripture, and history? I have both sources to cite from.

May I also ask if there is any known PROOF that Christ actually entered the Most Holy Place in 1844??????

Yes, the best "proof" of all, Holy scripture, the infallible preserved word of God in English (the KJB). This too may be considered as you will.

 

[Major1]

Ummmmmm, I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but the seventieth week is complete, and all we're waiting for is when the destroyer "shall come".

Perhaps to better understand the 9th Chapter, we should start at the beginning and work our way to the conclusion. -- Or we can randomly throw things against the wall and hope something might stick.

Thanks,
DaDad

No sir. That is PRETEARISM and it is not Biblical a=and neither is it logical or historicaly true.

 

[Major1]

Yes (x3). Would you like to discuss that from scripture, and history? I have both sources to cite from.

Yes, the best "proof" of all, Holy scripture, the infallible preserved word of God in English (the KJB). This too may be considered as you will.

Well. I would think without doing any investigative work that there would actually be an earthquake everyday somewhere on the earth.

Same with a "dark day". Several of my past Army friends were in Iraq in 1991 when the army of Hussein set fire to the oil wells. IT was 12 noon and dark as midnight.

I am pretty sure that there are meteorite showers on a regual basis as well so I see nothing there that would be unique at all.

However, I would be very interested in the even of 1844 when Jesus Christ entered the Holy of Holies.

I assume that you have sources that contain pictures of Jesus as He walked into the temple. Where exactly was that temple by the way.

I would love to see the verified eyewitnesses accounts and the date 1844 from the Scriptures and I do not mean some obscure off the wall kind of nonsense like the Quatrains of Nostradamus that can actually mean anything you want them to mean.

I can hardly wait!!!!!!!!!!

 

[liberty of conscience]

The last week of Daniel is to happen right before the actual Second Coming itself!

That cannot be correct for several scriptural reasons,

[1] the 70 weeks (490 years) is simply a subsection of the greater 2,300, as per (Daniel 9:23,24, "the vision", "determined"), which would mean, that after the 490 years, 1810 years remain to be accounted for (Daniel 8:13,14,26; Revelation 9:15, 14:6-7, etc)

[2] Jesus fulfilled the requirements in Daniel 9:24, "to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness":

Everlasting righteousness began with Jesus.

Jesus/Michael stood up in AD 34 [Acts 7:55-56 KJB], the end of the 70 weeks, in Daniel 9, and thus the close of the probation of the Jews as a nation, the sanhedrin, having rejected the Head and the body. He will so stand again [Daniel 12:1; Luke 13:25; Revelation 22:11 KJB, etc]

AD 27 + 3 1/2 = AD 31; crucifixion. The first of the final week of the 70 weeks, as Jesus told Peter [Matthew 18:22 KJB]

AD 31 + 3 1/2 = AD 34; Stephen martyred. End of the 70 weeks, as we see in Hebrews 2:3 KJB

Parallels [the short version, two rainbows]:

Jesus in AD 27 Anointed with the Holy Ghost, ministry 3 1/2 years, miracles, taken captive AD 31, rejected by the sanhedrin, condemned to death, dies outside the city

Disciples/Apostles in AD 31 anointed with the Holy Ghost at Pentecost, ministry 3 1/2 years, miracles, Stephen is taken captive AD 34, rejected by the sanhedrin, condemned to death, dies outside of the city.

Daniel 9:27 KJB - And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Hebrews 10:12 KJB - But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Hebrews 10:18 KJB - Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Hebrews 10:26 KJB - For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
​

Hebrews 2:3 KJB - How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

Romans 15:8 KJB - Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
​

Through Christ Jesus, it is the end of sin, He brought in everlasting righteousness, reconciliation, etc.

Matthew 1:21 KJB - And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Hebrews 9:26 KJB - For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

2 Corinthians 5:18 KJB - And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

2 Corinthians 5:19 KJB - To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Hebrews 2:17 KJB - Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
​

[3] etc, as needful.

 

[Major1]

Actually no. The WTS/JW doctrine, have a mixed Roman Catholic/Reformation doctrine. They took the clear studies of the Reformation, and went half-way back to Roman Catholicism in it, by reducing Michael Archangel to a mere creature, as Roman Catholicism does.

The teaching of the Reformation, and even by those before, is that Jesus is Michael Archangel, Deity, eternal Son of the Father, see for yourself:

Download the full study and all historical quotations in original language (where possible) here (See Chapters [Full quotations] Michael the archangel [11] - Messengers of the LORD & the Reformation & etc & [Short list] Michael the archangel [X2] - Appendix 2 – The Short Historical List of those who taught Jesus is Michael ):

TinyUpload.com - best file hosting solution, with no limits, totaly free

[*This list is by far from complete, though representative, and may be added to by any who will continue to diligently search the historical records in various languages and places. By no means, is any source listed herein, rare though they be, that actually denies the Eternal Deity and Godhood of Jesus in any way, agreed to, nor herein promoted as correct or to be advocated, but is rather than scripturally heretical and to be roundly shown to be in error in the love of Jesus.]

Ellen G. White (AD November 26, 1827 – AD July 16, 1915) – Jesus is “Michael”

Melito of Sardis (wrote AD 165 – AD 175, died c. AD 180 – Jesus is “among the angels, archangel”

Roman Catholic Encyclopedia: Jesus is the Angel of the Great Counsel, the Angel of the LORD, etc

Augustine of Hippo (AD 13 November 354 – AD 28 August 430) Jesus is the “Angel of the Testament”, etc

Irenaeus (AD early 2nd century – c. AD 202) Jesus is the one that came down and spoke to the Patriarchs under the designation “Angel”.

Titus Flavius Clemens (Greek: Κλήμης ὁ Ἀλεξανδρεύς; c. 150 – c. 215), known as Clement of Alexandria – Jesus is the “Angel of the Great Counsel”.

Justin Martyr, also known as Saint Justin (c. AD 100 – AD 165) – Jesus is called “Angel”, etc

Eusebius (AD 260/265 – AD 339/340); also called Eusebius of Caesarea and Eusebius Pamphili, - Jesus is called the “Angel of the mighty counsel”.

Quintus Septimius Florens Tertullianus, anglicised as Tertullian (c. AD 160 – c. AD 225 AD) – Jesus is the ‘Angel’ that spake to Moses from the midst of the bush.

Roman Catholic New American Bible with Footnotes [along with Douay Rheims], 1986: - Jesus is the “Lord’s Angel”, and “Angel of the LORD”, and etc.

Charles Buck (AD 1771 – AD 11 Aug 1815) Jesus is called “Angel” and “Archangel”.

John Butterworth, minister (born AD 1727- died AD 1803) – Jesus is “Michael”.

Alexander Cruden (AD May 31, 1699 – AD November 1, 1770) – Jesus is called “Angel”.

Thomas Taylor (AD 15 May 1758 – AD 1 November 1835) – Jesus is “Michael”.

Patrick Fairbairn (AD 28 January 1805 – AD 6 August 1874) – Jesus is “Michael”.

William Baxter Godbey (AD June 3, 1833 - AD September 12, 1920) cites Dr. Clarke that Jesus is “Michael”.

Matthew Pool[e] – (AD 1624 – AD 1679) – Jesus is “Michael”.

Sir William Smith (AD 20 May 1813 – AD 7 October 1893) – Jesus is “Michael” and cites others Luther, Hengstenberg, etc.

Thomas Coke (AD 9 September 1747 – AD 2 May 1814) – Jesus is “Michael”.

John Guyse (AD 1680 - AD 1761) – Jesus is “Michael”, and called “Angel”, etc

Elhanan Winchester (AD 1751 in Brookline, Massachusetts – AD April 18, 1797) – Jesus is “Michael”.

George Sale (AD 1697, Canterbury, Kent, England – AD 1736, London, England) ; George Psalmanazar (AD 1679? - AD 1763),; Archibald Bower (AD 17 January 1686 – AD 3 September 1766) ; George D. Shelvocke (baptised AD 1 April 1675 - AD 30 November 1742) ; John Campbell (AD 1708 - AD 1775); John Swinton (AD 1703 - AD 1777) – Jesus is “Michael”.

The Church of England Magazine. Under the superintendence of the clergymen of the United Church of England and Ireland. Vol. IV. No. 85; January 6, 1838. By James Burns. – Jesus is “Michael”.

Robert Hawker (AD 1753 – AD 1827) – Jesus is “Michael” and “Archangel”.

Samuel Horsley (AD 15 September 1733 – AD 4 October 1806) – Jesus is “Michael”.

The London Encyclopedia, or Universal Dictionary … 1839. – Jesus is “Michael”.

The Zondervan Encyclopedia of the Bible; Volume 4; M-P, Revised, Full-Color Edition; - cites that many Protestants, Hengstenberg, etc that Jesus is “Michael”.

Zondervan NIV Study Bible (Fully Revised): Wide Margin Loose-Leaf Edition; copyright 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society. – Jesus is the “angel of the Lord”, etc.

Hermann Witsius (Herman Wits or in Latin Hermannus Witsius) (AD 12 February 1636 – AD 22 October 1708) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Reinerus Vogelsangius (AD 1610 - AD 1679) – Jesus is “Michael”.

Johannes Cloppenburg (AD 1592 - AD 1652) - Jesus is Michael the “Angel of the Lord”.

Ralph Griffiths (AD c.1720 – AD September 28, 1803) – Jesus is “Michael”.

Campegius Vitringa Sr., or Kempe Vitringa[1] (born at Leeuwarden, May 16, 1659; died at Franeker, March 31, 1722) – Jesus is “Michael” the “Archangel”.

Martin Luther (AD 10 November 1483 – AD 18 February 1546) – Jesus is “Michael”.

Philipp Melanchthon (AD 16 February 1497 – AD 19 April 1560) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Johann Wigand (ca. AD 1523 - AD 21 October 1587) – Jesus is “Michael”.

David Chytraeus or Chyträus (26 February 1530, Ingelfingen – 25 June 1600, Rostock) – Jesus is “Michael”.

Giovanni Diodati or Deodati (AD 6 June 1576 – AD 3 October 1649) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Andrew Willet (AD 1562 – AD 4 December 1621) - Jesus is “Michael”.

William Miller (AD February 15, 1782 – AD December 20, 1849) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Carl L. Beckwith, - Jesus is “Michael”.

Robert W. Bertram (AD 27 March 1921 - AD 13 March 2003) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Dr. Frances N. Lee (AD 1934 - AD Friday 23rd December, 2011) - - Jesus is “Michael”.

David Harold Chilton (AD 1951 – AD 1997) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Milton Spenser Terry (AD 1840 - AD 1914) - Jesus is “Michael”.

George Whitefield - December 27 [O.S. December 16] 1714 – September 30, 1770) speaks by symbol, Jesus is our “Michael”.

James Petigru Boyce (AD 1827 – AD 1888) citing John Pye-Smith, Jesus is “probably” “Michael”.

The Rev Dr John Pye-Smith FRS, FGS (AD 25 May 1774 - AD 5 February 1851) - Jesus is “probably” “Michael”.

Christmas Evans (AD 25 December 1766 – AD 19 July 1838) – Jesus is “Michael”.

The Christian Gleaner and Domestic Magazine
The Christian Gleaner and Domestic Magazine for 1825, Volume II; London; published by B. J. Holdsworth, 18, St. Paul's Churchyard. – Jesus is “Michael”.

Carl Ferdinand Wilhelm Walther (AD October 25, 1811 – AD May 7, 1887) - Jesus is “Michael”.

John Gill (AD 23 November 1697 – AD 14 October 1771) – Jesus is “Michael”.

Charles Spurgeon (AD 9 June 1834 – AD 31 January 1892) Jesus is the “True Michael”.

Matthew Henry (AD 18 October 1662 – AD 22 June 1714) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Thomas Adams (AD 1583 – AD 1653) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Heinrich [Henry] Bullinger (AD 18 July 1504 – AD 17 September 1575) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Isaac Watts (AD 17 July 1674 – AD 25 November 1748) - Jesus is “Michael”.

William Kinkade (AD 22nd Sept. 1783 - AD 20th Sept. 1832) [became Arian later; Heresy] - Jesus is “Michael”.

Jonathan Edwards (AD October 5, 1703 – AD March 22, 1758) - Jesus is “Michael”.

1560/1599 Geneva Study Bible- Jesus is “Michael”.

John [Jean] Calvin (born Jehan Cauvin: AD 10 July 1509 – AD 27 May 1564) - Jesus is “Michael” and does not disagree with others who see the same.

Francois Du Jon aka Franciscus Junius (born François du Jon, AD 1 May 1545 – AD 13 October 1602) - Jesus is “Michael”.

John Wesley (AD 28 June [O.S. 17 June] 1703 – AD 2 March 1791) - Jesus is “Michael”.

John Brown of Haddington (AD 1722 – AD 19 June 1787) - Jesus is “Michael”.

James Wood (AD 1751 – AD 1840) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Ernst Wilhelm Theodor Herrmann Hengstenberg (AD October 20, 1802, Fröndenberg – AD May 28, 1869, Berlin- Jesus is “Michael”.

Wikipedia, The Online Encyclopedia – Michael (Archangel); subsection - “Protestant Views” – cites John A. Lees, and Hengstenberg, Jesus is “Michael”.

International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, comment on section “Michael” by John A. Lees. - Jesus is “Michael”.

John Bunyan (AD 28 November 1628 – AD 31 August 1688) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Henry Ainsworth (AD 1571 – AD 1622) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Thomas Watson (c. AD 1620 – AD 1686) - Jesus is “Michael”.

James Glasgow D.D. (AD 27 May 1805 – AD 1890 ) - Jesus is “Michael”.

James Hastings (AD 1852 – AD 1922) and George Cunninghame Monteath Douglas (AD 1826 – AD 1904- Jesus is “Michael”.

Thomas Hobbes Scott (17 April 1783 – 1 January 1860) - Jesus may indeed be “Michael” as “many” others say.

Hezekiah Holland (born ca. AD 1617, living AD 1660) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Adam Clarke (AD 1760 or AD 1762 – AD 1832) - Jesus is “Michael”.

George Balderston Kidd (Cottingham, near Hull, AD 28 July 1794 – AD 1852) - Jesus is “Michael”.

James Durham (AD 1622 – AD 1658) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Bryce Johnston (AD 1747 - AD 1805) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Vine's Expository Dictionary, by William Edwy Vine Section: "archangel” – the “archangels” “voice” is the “voice” of Jesus.

Thomas Haweis (AD 1 January 1734 - AD February 11, 1820) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Abingdon Bible Commentary, 1929; Editor, Edwin Lewis (AD 1881 – AD 1959) was an American Methodist theologian primarily associated with Drew University in New Jersey. Others involved - Frederick Carl Eiselen; David G. Downey. - Jesus is “Michael”.

Johann [John] Peter Lange (AD 10 April 1802 in Sonneborn (now a part of Wuppertal) – AD 9 July 1884), and Elijah Richard Craven (AD Mar. 28 1824, in Washington D.C. - AD Jan. 5 1908, in Philadelphia, Pa) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Thomas Robinson (AD 1813/14 - AD 1890) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Johann Friedrich Haug ((AD * 1680, AD † 18. May 1753) and The Berlenburger Bibel [aka 'Berleb. Bible', 'Berleburger Bibel', etc.] is in the years AD 1726 - AD 1742) - Jesus is “Michael”.

God love you my friend but no one is going to read all that info.

The Jehovah's Witnesses maintain that Jesus was Michael the archangel prior to his coming to earth. They assert: "Scriptural evidence indicates that the name Michael applied to God's Son before he left heaven to become Jesus Christ and also after his return" (Aid to Bible Understanding, Watchtower Bible & Tract Society, 1971, 1152).

 

[Major1]

That cannot be correct for several scriptural reasons,

[1] the 70 weeks (490 years) is simply a subsection of the greater 2,300, as per (Daniel 9:23,24, "the vision", "determined"), which would mean, that after the 490 years, 1810 years remain to be accounted for (Daniel 8:13,14,26; Revelation 9:15, 14:6-7, etc)

[2] Jesus fulfilled the requirements in Daniel 9:24, "to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness":

Everlasting righteousness began with Jesus.

Jesus/Michael stood up in AD 34 [Acts 7:55-56 KJB], the end of the 70 weeks, in Daniel 9, and thus the close of the probation of the Jews as a nation, the sanhedrin, having rejected the Head and the body. He will so stand again [Daniel 12:1; Luke 13:25; Revelation 22:11 KJB, etc]

AD 27 + 3 1/2 = AD 31; crucifixion. The first of the final week of the 70 weeks, as Jesus told Peter [Matthew 18:22 KJB]

AD 31 + 3 1/2 = AD 34; Stephen martyred. End of the 70 weeks, as we see in Hebrews 2:3 KJB

Parallels [the short version, two rainbows]:

Jesus in AD 27 Anointed with the Holy Ghost, ministry 3 1/2 years, miracles, taken captive AD 31, rejected by the sanhedrin, condemned to death, dies outside the city

Disciples/Apostles in AD 31 anointed with the Holy Ghost at Pentecost, ministry 3 1/2 years, miracles, Stephen is taken captive AD 34, rejected by the sanhedrin, condemned to death, dies outside of the city.

Daniel 9:27 KJB - And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Hebrews 10:12 KJB - But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Hebrews 10:18 KJB - Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Hebrews 10:26 KJB - For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
​

Hebrews 2:3 KJB - How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

Romans 15:8 KJB - Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:​

Through Christ Jesus, it is the end of sin, He brought in everlasting righteousness, reconciliation, etc.

Matthew 1:21 KJB - And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Hebrews 9:26 KJB - For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

2 Corinthians 5:18 KJB - And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

2 Corinthians 5:19 KJB - To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Hebrews 2:17 KJB - Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
​

[3] etc, as needful.

NOPE! The 70th week of Daniel is Jacobs Trouble or better said, The Tribulation Peroid.

It begins with a 7 year peace trety and ends at Armageddon.

 

[liberty of conscience]

Well. I would think without doing any investigative work that there would actually be an earthquake everyday somewhere on the earth.

True, yet they would not fit within the specific time window of the prophecies of Daniel/Revelation, etc, nor of the area required to be known, nor of the scale required. Are you interested in the scripture and historical citations? It must be a plain, "Yes."

Same with a "dark day". Several of my past Army friends were in Iraq in 1991 when the army of Hussein set fire to the oil wells. IT was 12 noon and dark as midnight.

This is again, not relevant to the facts of the scripture, nor to the historical accounts either. The scripture requires a very specific time window based upon the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation, and also says nothing about natural, or man-made phenomena. It is a super-natural darkness, even as it was a the Cross. Are you interested in the scripture and historical citations? It must be a plain, "Yes."

I am pretty sure that there are meteorite showers on a regual basis as well so I see nothing there that would be unique at all.

True, meteor showers happen all the time, but not like that which was described by the scripture, within the timeframe of the prophecies given in Daniel/Revelation, etc. This event is unlike any other ever recorded in history, even the native american year event charts list this as the most important event in that year. Are you interested in the scripture and historical citations? It must be a plain, "Yes." These all happened in the precise order, and timing, and magnitude, and location, they are foretold to be in.

However, I would be very interested in the even of 1844 when Jesus Christ entered the Holy of Holies.

First things first. All the others mentioned, are signs leading up to said event. To bypass those is to ignore the signs given upon the earth and in the heavens, announcing the event, as well as the scriptures, and other historical data confirming the date itself.

Are you interested in the scripture and historical citations? It must be a plain, "Yes."

I assume that you have sources ...

I have many sources for the above mentioned events.

that contain pictures of Jesus as He walked into the temple.

I have the Bible itself, which contains the word picture itself, in many places.

Are you interested in the scripture references? It must be a plain, "Yes."

Where exactly was that temple by the way.

Exactly where scripture says it is.

Are you interested in the scripture references? It must be a plain, "Yes."

I would love to see the verified eyewitnesses accounts and the date 1844 from the Scriptures and I do not mean some obscure off the wall kind of nonsense like the Quatrains of Nostradamus that can actually mean anything you want them to mean.

I can hardly wait!!!!!!!!!!

No, brother, I am speaking of very specific prophecies in scripture and very specific and historic citations, that any may on their own time go and verify for themselves. There were millions of witnesses to these events and many wrote on these things.

In fact, can I recommed to you, a partial study that does list some of those historical materials (start at page PDF 77)?
http://secretsunsealed.org/content/PDF_downloads/All of Pastor Bohr's Study Notes/BSIR7S.pdf

 

[liberty of conscience]

God love you my friend but no one is going to read all that info.

Then they are not serious students of scripture, nor history (and that includes the Reformation) and I pity them. All seeking truth should at least consider it, even if scanning it.

The Jehovah's Witnesses maintain that Jesus was Michael the archangel prior to his coming to earth. They assert: "Scriptural evidence indicates that the name Michael applied to God's Son before he left heaven to become Jesus Christ and also after his return" (Aid to Bible Understanding, Watchtower Bible & Tract Society, 1971, 1152).

This is true, but as I said, the WTS/JW borrowed that doctrine from the Reformation, and yet twisted it, to reduce Michael/Jesus to a mere creature, as Roman Catholicism does. WTS/JW have a mixed theology, half Roman Catholicism, half Reformation. That is demonstrated in the material provided.

 

[Major1]

Well, sometimes doctrines fail us in significant ways. It's clear that the Scholars see things which they cannot resolve, but that doesn't keep the commentators from spinning their ~best lie~ in some type of attempt to ~exhort~ the church that ~scripture is true~.

Take the Book of Daniel. Many are convinced that this Book is written to the Jews, and everything in the OT is Jewish centric. But the Book of Daniel is different. It's written to the nations, -- with the ONLY exception in Daniel 9 where Daniel had to don Jeremiah's mantle so that he could prophesy to his kinsmen. But ALL other instances, including the account of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed′nego is a testimony and/or prophecy for the nations.

Perhaps the commentators should have waited until the "end time" before they attempted to unseal this Book.

DaDad

Good thoughts Dad. No argument from me. I would only say that ALL the prophets had TWO visions in mind. One was THEIR time and the other was way on down the road of time.

Certainly his prophecies Transend time to speak to us but all I said is that when we see the words in Daniel of "SAINTS", he is referring to the JEWS and not us or the church.

I would also add that the book is written in two different languages: Hebrew and Aramaic. Dan 1 and Dan. 8-12 are in Hebrew, whereas Dan. 2-7 are in Aramaic.

 

[Major1]

True, yet they would not fit within the specific time window of the prophecies of Daniel/Revelation, etc, nor of the area required to be known, nor of the scale required. Are you interested in the scripture and historical citations? It must be a plain, "Yes."

This is again, not relevant to the facts of the scripture, nor to the historical accounts either. The scripture requires a very specific time window based upon the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation, and also says nothing about natural, or man-made phenomena. It is a super-natural darkness, even as it was a the Cross. Are you interested in the scripture and historical citations? It must be a plain, "Yes."

True, meteor showers happen all the time, but not like that which was described by the scripture, within the timeframe of the prophecies given in Daniel/Revelation, etc. This event is unlike any other ever recorded in history, even the native american year event charts list this as the most important event in that year. Are you interested in the scripture and historical citations? It must be a plain, "Yes." These all happened in the precise order, and timing, and magnitude, and location, they are foretold to be in.

First things first. All the others mentioned, are signs leading up to said event. To bypass those is to ignore the signs given upon the earth and in the heavens, announcing the event, as well as the scriptures, and other historical data confirming the date itself.

Are you interested in the scripture and historical citations? It must be a plain, "Yes."

I have many sources for the above mentioned events.

I have the Bible itself, which contains the word picture itself, in many places.

Are you interested in the scripture references? It must be a plain, "Yes."

Exactly where scripture says it is.

Are you interested in the scripture references? It must be a plain, "Yes."

No, brother, I am speaking of very specific prophecies in scripture and very specific and historic citations, that any may on their own time go and verify for themselves. There were millions of witnesses to these events and many wrote on these things.

In fact, can I recommed to you, a partial study that does list some of those historical materials (start at page PDF 77)?
http://secretsunsealed.org/content/PDF_downloads/All of Pastor Bohr's Study Notes/BSIR7S.pdf

YOU want me to read a SDA website to prove YOUR theology?????

Come on brother! You know that is self serving and would serve NO purpose at all.
That would be like me telling you to go read Billy Graham's website on the 2nd Coming.

Please, YES post the Scriptures you are talking about and please try and keep it short.

 

[Major1]

True, yet they would not fit within the specific time window of the prophecies of Daniel/Revelation, etc, nor of the area required to be known, nor of the scale required. Are you interested in the scripture and historical citations? It must be a plain, "Yes."

This is again, not relevant to the facts of the scripture, nor to the historical accounts either. The scripture requires a very specific time window based upon the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation, and also says nothing about natural, or man-made phenomena. It is a super-natural darkness, even as it was a the Cross. Are you interested in the scripture and historical citations? It must be a plain, "Yes."

True, meteor showers happen all the time, but not like that which was described by the scripture, within the timeframe of the prophecies given in Daniel/Revelation, etc. This event is unlike any other ever recorded in history, even the native american year event charts list this as the most important event in that year. Are you interested in the scripture and historical citations? It must be a plain, "Yes." These all happened in the precise order, and timing, and magnitude, and location, they are foretold to be in.

First things first. All the others mentioned, are signs leading up to said event. To bypass those is to ignore the signs given upon the earth and in the heavens, announcing the event, as well as the scriptures, and other historical data confirming the date itself.

Are you interested in the scripture and historical citations? It must be a plain, "Yes."

I have many sources for the above mentioned events.

I have the Bible itself, which contains the word picture itself, in many places.

Are you interested in the scripture references? It must be a plain, "Yes."

Exactly where scripture says it is.

Are you interested in the scripture references? It must be a plain, "Yes."

No, brother, I am speaking of very specific prophecies in scripture and very specific and historic citations, that any may on their own time go and verify for themselves. There were millions of witnesses to these events and many wrote on these things.

In fact, can I recommed to you, a partial study that does list some of those historical materials (start at page PDF 77)?
http://secretsunsealed.org/content/PDF_downloads/All of Pastor Bohr's Study Notes/BSIR7S.pdf

YOU want me to read a SDA website to prove YOUR theology?????

Come on brother! You know that is self serving and would serve NO purpose at all.
That would be like me telling you to go read Billy Graham's website on the 2nd Coming.

Please, YES post the Scriptures you are talking about and please try and keep it short.

I am always available to discuss and do exegeses on the Scriptures.

 

[liberty of conscience]

I would also add that the book is written in two different languages: Hebrew and Aramaic. Dan 1 and Dan. 8-12 are in Hebrew, whereas Dan. 2-7 are in Aramaic.

More specifically:

[1] Daniel Chapter 1:1-2:4[a], which is the introductory portion of the Book of Daniel, is given in Hebrew, connecting the two major portions,

[2] Daniel Chapter 2:4(b.) -7:28 is given in Aramaic [Syriac/Chaldee].

[3] Daniel Chapter 8:1-12:13, that again the Book of Daniel is given primarily in Hebrew language once more.

This pattern, is confirmed in the Qumran Scrolls, or Dead-Sea Scroll collection, wherein the texts of Daniel were also found, even indicating their ancient authorship, in the range of to 600-500 BC:

Qumran; Daniel:

[Scroll] 1 Q Dan A (1Q71) - [Range] Dan 1:10–17; 2:2–6. These confirm the language shift from Hebrew to Aramaic/Syriac/Chaldee, but omits the phrase ‘in Aramaic’ at 2:4.1

[Scroll] 1 Q Dan B (1Q72) - [Range] Dan 3:22–30; Four fragments on vellum in Aramaic; and confirms the absence of the apocryphal Greek "Prayer of Azariah and Song of the Three Men."

[Scroll] 4 Q Dan A (4Q112) - [Range] Dan 1:16–2:33; 4:29–30; 5:5–7; 7:25–8:5; 10:16–20; 11:13–16. Some portions of these verses are incomplete.

[Scroll] 4 Q Dan B (4Q113) - [Range] Dan 5:10–12, 14–16, 19–22; 6:8–22, 27–29; 7:1–6, 26–28; 8:1–8, 13–16.These confirm the language shift from Aramaic/Syriac/Chaldee to Hebrew.

[Scroll] 4 Q Dan C (4Q114) - [Range] Dan 10:5–9, 11–16, 21; 11:1–2, 13–17, 25–29. These, the oldest known text of Daniel.

[Scroll] 4 Q Dan D (4Q115) - [Range] Dan 3:23–25; 4:5?–9; 4:12–14. The largest of these fragments contain five partial lines in severe decay.

[Scroll] 4 Q Dan E (4Q116) - [Range] Dan. 9:12–14?, 15–16?, 17?… There are five small fragments of chapter nine.

[Scroll] 6 Q Dan A (6Q7) [aka pap 6 Q Dan] - [Range] Dan 8:16, 17, 20, 21; 10:8–16, 11:33–36, 38. The cave in which these were found contained papyrus manuscripts rather than leather parchment. This also confirms the absence of the apocryphal Greek sections of Susanna, Bel and the Dragon, &c, for they were not present among any of the fragments.