If the Bible is so cut and dry why do no two Christians agree on doctrine?

devin553344

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Whether it's eternal security or some other basic truth of scripture how come no two Christians will agree with the Bible? I mean there are Christians out there that dont even believe that belief is good enough for salvation when the Bible clearly says "believe in Christ and you will be saved" in multiple spots. I mean its extremely difficult to get the truth out of scripture because everyone will interpret a particular verse differently. Why isn't there just one huge believe all belief that one can pick and say "Okay I believe that. Yay! I am saved now!"? Why all the divisions in the church and among Christians? What is the truth about scripture?

I have to agree. I think that's the nature with language describing doctrine. It's open to interpretation. Not to mention not all aspects are covered of any particular doctrine point.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Whether it's eternal security or some other basic truth of scripture how come no two Christians will agree with the Bible? I mean there are Christians out there that dont even believe that belief is good enough for salvation when the Bible clearly says "believe in Christ and you will be saved" in multiple spots. I mean its extremely difficult to get the truth out of scripture because everyone will interpret a particular verse differently. Why isn't there just one huge believe all belief that one can pick and say "Okay I believe that. Yay! I am saved now!"? Why all the divisions in the church and among Christians? What is the truth about scripture?
Doctrines of men have creeped in. If you want the purity of the Gospel you need to strip all this away. And what are you left with, Christ and Christ alone!
Blessings
 
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mindlight

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Whether it's eternal security or some other basic truth of scripture how come no two Christians will agree with the Bible? I mean there are Christians out there that dont even believe that belief is good enough for salvation when the Bible clearly says "believe in Christ and you will be saved" in multiple spots. I mean its extremely difficult to get the truth out of scripture because everyone will interpret a particular verse differently. Why isn't there just one huge believe all belief that one can pick and say "Okay I believe that. Yay! I am saved now!"? Why all the divisions in the church and among Christians? What is the truth about scripture?

Most Christians can sign up to the Nicene Creed which includes a substantial number of doctrinal positions. So the premise of the thread is a false one.

Christian pluralism on creation, eternal security is in part an expression of a healthy honesty in the Christian community and an expression of the freedom that Christ gives rather than the imposition and oppression of a false order by false scriptures as with Islam for instance. People are free to make choices and to explore for themselves the truthes which God has given. That many get that deeply wrong is also an expression of the freedom and grace that allows that. It can seem chaotic and messy to outsiders but in fact it is what an honest community and honest discussion looks like.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Absolutely! .. and while we live in a world where the majority of people don't know Him, let alone speak His words, it can be very difficult for a person to know how He speaks, let alone recognizing Him when it is Him (John 14:21).

hmmm..... who was it now.... long ago..... who said my sheep recognize my voice ? And, they follow me and will not follow another ?
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Does ANY doctrine say "follow me" ?
I don't know of any.
Instead, follow Jesus, no matter anything else.

I just asked you to read Scripture I don’t see how that is wrong.
Who am I but a worm?
Trust our Lord not me I’d have it no other way.
upppitee? no, I think not, but mistaken, yes. What was the motive you had ? (you don't have to say, but I'd rather not guess) ....

I know of no doctrine says "follow me" . Even if "a doctrine" did say that, it wouldn't lead to life nor give life.

Jesus says "follow me", and IS LIFE, and GIVES LIFE.

As all Yahweh Reveals through all Scripture.
 
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Serving Zion

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hmmm..... who was it now.... long ago..... who said my sheep recognize my voice ? And, they follow me and will not follow another ?
It was Him upon whom John the Baptist saw The Holy Spirit come to reside, and "it remained on Him".

For us to be vessels of that same spirit, to follow His discipline, it means we need to empty ourselves so as to represent Him without the obscurity of our own flesh - our ego, our desires, our emphasis .. because those are the things that are not holy .. they are sinful (pride, wrath, greed, lust etc), and that is why we might be showing forth His spirit clearly one day, but fallen the next.

It is confusing for those who do not discern spirits, that they are easily tempted to form a lasting impression about a person because of the impression of a given moment.
 
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Albion

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1. Christians in entire denominations agree with the Bible
2. What is more -- even BETWEEN denominations we get agreement on certain obvious Bible points ... for example...

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm the Ten Commandments for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism. :groupray:

And of course 7th day groups

Seventh-day Baptists
Seventh-day Adventists
(and 100's of others) :cool:
Its not that complicated. Almost all Christian denominations affirm the Ten Commandments.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Its not that complicated. Almost all Christian denominations affirm the Ten Commandments.
Explain then why 'most' posters (of all Christian forums worldwide) say they do not have to keep the Ten Commandments,
and even say that if they tried to keep ONE Commandment, they would then be condemned ?!
 
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W2L

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Doctrines of men have creeped in. If you want the purity of the Gospel you need to strip all this away. And what are you left with, Christ and Christ alone!
Blessings
I agree. I call it simplicity. It seems very fulfilling.
 
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Chris V++

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Explain then why 'most' posters (of all Christian forums worldwide) say they do not have to keep the Ten Commandments,
and even say that if they tried to keep ONE Commandment, they would then be condemned ?!

I think what is meant by this is that we have all broken at least one of the commandments. The commandments gives us knowledge of our sin and is how we know beyond any reasonable doubt that we are guilty and deserve judgement. I don't think Christians mean that they no longer need to strive not to sin and strive not to break the commandments, its more that the Christian knows that if we are judged solely on whether or not the commandments are kept then we would definitely be condemned, since we have all broken some of them. Jesus even tightened the definitions of the commandments so that none of us can pretend to have any excuse. Our only option is to accept His sacrifice on our behalf since none of us are righteous.

What Christian would say or think something like, 'we are commanded not to steal, but if I even try to live by this one commandment and not steal I'm condemned, so therefore I 'm free to steal or not steal, as long as I'm not living by the commandment?' Nobody reasonable thinks that way.
 
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DarkSoul999

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satan. For every single one of God's truth ... satan has a lie (counterfeit teachings) ... every single one, always keep that in mind. It is satan's prime objective to lead as many people away from God as possible ... and he (satan) especially does that in regard to christians by distorting the Word of God through false teachings using church organizations as well (no surprise at all). This is why it is very important that each of us study the bible for ourselves.

Matthew 24:24

24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect (believers in Christ).

false messiahs - towards the very end satan is even going to counterfeit the coming of Jesus, he (satan) will appear as an angel of light and deceive many. It will be so subtle ... many many many ... including christians ignorant of the truth of His word will be deceived thinking it is in fact Jesus.

2nd Corinthians 11:14
New Living Translation
But I am not surprised! Even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.

May all continue to study Gods word for themselves and may He reveal the truth to them through it. Amen

God Bless.

We are screwed. Only the most shrewd and wise will get to heaven.
 
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eleos1954

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We are screwed. Only the most shrewd and wise will get to heaven.

We have Jesus ;o) ... if we have received Him and continue in Him, we have all we need.

Corinthians 5:21 “For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with God through Christ.”

God Bless.
 
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Ing Bee

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Whether it's eternal security or some other basic truth of scripture how come no two Christians will agree with the Bible? I mean there are Christians out there that dont even believe that belief is good enough for salvation when the Bible clearly says "believe in Christ and you will be saved" in multiple spots. I mean its extremely difficult to get the truth out of scripture because everyone will interpret a particular verse differently. Why isn't there just one huge believe all belief that one can pick and say "Okay I believe that. Yay! I am saved now!"? Why all the divisions in the church and among Christians? What is the truth about scripture?

I think most respondents will point to a multiplicity of reasons such as:
  • Many Christians don't actually read the Bible and consequently filter their understanding through secondary sources (tradition, books, blogs, etc., "what I've always believed)
  • Many Christians conflate Bible-reading with Bible-Studying which takes more time and effort (due to our distance from the time, place, culture and languages the Bible describes)
  • False teachers have gone out into the world and people listen to things their "itching ears want to hear".
  • Unchecked, bitterness, pride, etc. can take root in the human heart and drive us to struggle for power, influence, and self-importance.
  • Many Christians import unstated assumptions into the text (for a good read, see "Misreading Scripture through Western Eyes" by O'Brien and Richards)
  • It's often easier to argue past Christian brothers and sisters who disagree with a particular point than to listen and understand their perspective and then look at the Bible.
With all that said, there are some great reasons why this situation shouldn't be too worrisome, although it can be discouraging:

1) The Father, Son and Spirit are dynamically relational and are constantly bringing dead people to life. This is a true state of affairs in John 3 & 6, Ephesians 1:1-14, Titus 3:3-7 and many, many more).

2) The essentials are crystal clear (1 Cor. 15:1-8, John 3:16-17, Titus 3:3-7, Acts 2:14-41, 1 John 5:1-14) and it is the Spirit who draws people to Jesus (John 6:44-45, John 16:7-11). He connects directly to the human heart. These essentials are "low hanging fruit" and it's one reason why passages like Psalm 23 and John 3:16 are the most famous in the Bible: you don't need extensive greek or historical training to get what they are saying.

3) Unity is not a function of uniformity, but of One Spirit, One Lord, One God and Father of All (Ephesians 4:3-6). It is Jesus himself who is our peace, uniting us to himself and bringing us to the Father (Ephesians 3:14-19). Absolute agreement on every particular is not what unifies us, only the Living Christ. Whenever I meet someone who is walking in the Spirit, I don't have to guess about it, the Life of God is palpably obvious. This empowering Life transcends denomination, church tradition, bible translation, etc. "By this will all men know that you are my disciples: if you love one another". Jesus's words here must mean that real, observable differences will denote his followers.​
 
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DarkSoul999

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We have Jesus ;o) ... if we have received Him and continue in Him, we have all we need.

Corinthians 5:21 “For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with God through Christ.”

God Bless.

How do you know that you received Jesus and you aren't just deceiving yourself? We can't even trust our own thoughts...
 
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Albion

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Explain then why 'most' posters (of all Christian forums worldwide) say they do not have to keep the Ten Commandments,
and even say that if they tried to keep ONE Commandment, they would then be condemned ?!
The post I answered said that they 1) agree with the Bible and 2) affirm the Commandments. Consequently, I don't see any reason to reconsider my reply.
 
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Ing Bee

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Because we've forgotten what Paul said in 1 Timothy 3:15 that "God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth"
and
1 John 2:27 "As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him."

These are all plural "you's" and refers to the local church not just one person.

So believe it or not, it isn't scripture and the people that support that idea (just look at all the Sola Scriptura Protestant churches and the thousands of denominations ) but the foundation of the truth is actually the local church.

Hello-
Thanks for you comments. Although I don't necessarily disagree with your conclusions, I disagree with your characterization of the passages you used (kind of funny, given the topic at hand).

2 quick observations:

1) Are you sure the "pillar" and "foundation" metaphors for the church are as you interpret them? The church is the total sum of all believers, those transformed by the good news, living new lives empowered by the Spirit and proclaiming the Truth of the Kingdom of God. Local churches are an expression of the universal "church". In this sense, the truth is held up by the people (individually AND corporately) which is what foundations and pillars do with roofs in ancient architecture. We see that explicitly in the very next verse (v.16) where Paul gives a quick outline of the "Truth" held up by the church. It is very concise and easily understood. To put it another way, the Bible contains the complete "Truth" about the reality of the Gospel-life, no additions necessary from the Church. The Church "upholds" that truth through our proclamation and active expression of the life of God in us.

We humans tend to swing to extremes and a disregard for the role and true nature of the universal and local church body is due for a shift, however, there need be no false dichotomy between a healthy view of the church and the recognition that no new "truth" needs to be generated or "discovered" elsewhere than in scripture and that the most important things of the Christian life are easily discerned:
  • "The wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord"
  • "Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest"
  • "Love one another as I have love you"
  • "He who has the Son has life, he who does not have the Son of God does not have life"
  • Etc.
2) The multiple uses of the plural "yous" in your second passage is does not support your point. This is exactly how John would have had to speak in a letter addressing multiple individuals simultaneously. Yes, they are the church, but that's like calling a collection of grapes a "bunch": the church is the collection of individuals.

If I told a gathering of people at a conference "You received a book when you came in", it doesn't mean that only one book was received by the entire gathering, just because I use the plural "you". John's use of "anointing" (v.27) is an individual anointing shared by all members of the group. This is consistent, for example, with the individual/corporate theme Titus 3:3-7 and in Ephesians 1:1-14. Additionally, other passages (notably Hebrews 8:10-11) explicitly reveal that God does teach individuals apart from other group members.

I agree with you that the local church body, the "household of God", is the prime arena for growing in the Christian life. We don't live in a vacuum as "Lone Ranger Christians". The great and beautiful thing about the New Life is that it is both an interpersonal connection with the Father (one on one) as well as a new "family", one "body", a "kingdom"– arrangements of individuals in delighted relationship, just as the Trinity has always experienced.
 
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eleos1954

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How do you know that you received Jesus and you aren't just deceiving yourself? We can't even trust our own thoughts...

ok if ... and I do mean IF .. a person loves the Lord, lives accordingly, does good and not harm ... and it's not true (very hard for me to even image not being true) ... then would that type of "deception" matter?

Romans 12:2 - Do not copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God’s will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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How do you know that you received Jesus and you aren't just deceiving yourself? We can't even trust our own thoughts...
Most people are deceived, whether self-deceived or by the devil, the flesh, the world, demons, or religion.
The whole world in these end days refuses even to repent, not caring (re Revelation) ....
"How do you know...." ? good question, answered in 1st John I think.

Most people never read it. Fewer people ever believe it. That's what God's Word says, and He never changes.
 
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Whether it's eternal security or some other basic truth of scripture how come no two Christians will agree with the Bible? I mean there are Christians out there that dont even believe that belief is good enough for salvation when the Bible clearly says "believe in Christ and you will be saved" in multiple spots. I mean its extremely difficult to get the truth out of scripture because everyone will interpret a particular verse differently. Why isn't there just one huge believe all belief that one can pick and say "Okay I believe that. Yay! I am saved now!"? Why all the divisions in the church and among Christians? What is the truth about scripture?

The Bible isn't a manual of doctrine, theology, or practice. It is a collection of inspired, sacred texts which the Church confesses and believes to be divinely inspired for our benefit as the people of God. While there has never existed perfect unanimity on all matters in Christianity, there has always existed an apostolic, catholic, orthodox mainstream--it is this mainstream that itself gave us the Bible in the first place since the Bible is the result of Christian confessional consensus (nobody would know what is and is not Scripture unless it was recognized as such by the consensus of the Faithful in the Church). It is also this orthodox mainstream that has retained the historic consensus of the Faith since apostolic times.

Again, not all matters have been agreed upon, even in apostolic times; but the core preaching and teaching of the Church has remained the same since the beginning, we find this in the historic centers of Christian confession, most prominently the Creeds, of which the Nicene Creed is of chief prominence. When we come together in Christian Confession we are confessing this faith--the apostolic and catholic faith that has been confessed since the beginning. Where there is disagreement with the Historic Confession that is when we see radical departure from the mainstream.

When Christians today, instead of looking to the historic confession of Christ's Church throughout all ages, opt instead to instead DIY their religion, that is where we see the big disagreements.

The Bible was never intended to be some kind of all comprehensive instruction manual for Christianity; the Bible has always been, instead, that collection of holy and divinely inspired texts which draw us into the mystery of our faith, namely Jesus Christ, the Eternal and Incarnate Word of God, our Lord. Scripture is about Jesus, Scripture points us to Jesus, Scripture communicates the commandments and promises of God (Law and Gospel), and gives us the language by which we come together in order to confess our common confession and faith in Jesus--that confession and faith which has existed since the beginning of our religion and has been faithfully confessed, retained, and communicated down through the ages--which is why we confess the Creed together, why we celebrate the Supper together, why we hear the word together, etc.

-CryptoLuthern
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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I have to agree. I think that's the nature with language describing doctrine. It's open to interpretation. Not to mention not all aspects are covered of any particular doctrine point.
That's where error started, and continued, and continues.

If, when , anyone speaks the Truth from the Father, it is accepted by everyone abiding in Christ Jesus and confirmed by all Scripture and by the Spirit of Yahweh.

If, when, anyone speaks an interpretation and is not of the Father,
it is not accepted by anyone who hears the voice of the Shepherd Jesus
nor is it confirmed by Scripture nor by the Spirit of Yahweh. Instead, as directed by Scripture and by the Father, it is exposed as false.
 
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