If the Bible is so cut and dry why do no two Christians agree on doctrine?

[Kenny'sID]

No. Christians cannot earn our own salvation.
No works of merit to bring before Him, no self righteousness.

Our Lord Jesus Christ in Spirit in Heaven revealed to Paul the Gospel of Grace to the Gentiles. This is to believe on Him alone. He has done everything we can add nothing. We can have no self righteousness when we know we are evil capable of no good thing.

Our Lord Jesus Christ in the flesh on earth revealed to his disciples and the Jewish nation the Gospel of the Kingdom. This is to be believe and be baptised. Aka faith plus works. God has always had faith plus works with the Jews.

Gentiles faith without works. We can bring nothing.

Jews faith plus works. After rejecting Him they need to show themselves worthy having been showed the light first they are held to a higher responsibility.

This is the best I can explain it. I can’t go beyond my current understanding.

To me the idea of obedience is based in thankfulness to His mercy submitting to His authority knowing I can’t earn my salvation or please Him by bringing him anything. But if the Holy Spirit puts in me a desire to help someone in some way it is of Him, by Him and through Him and glory goes to Him for it not to me therefore no self righteousness only His righteousness. Not a work done by an individual for self praise or human praise but a work done by God through an earthly instrument with all praise going to Him from me and believing witnesses.

I hope that clarifies my position.

Peace be with you.

I'm going by the conventional definition of obedience, so I understand now, you don't have to be obedient after all, in that you don't have to do as God and Christ says we must do in order to get to heaven.

 

[Albion]

It is not considered to be Faith merely to have a conscience, to think that there is a higher power of some sort, or to remain true to ones principles, etc.

When the issue of Faith vs. Works arises in a Christian context, the Faith spoken of there refers to having a personal commitment to Christ Jesus as Lord and Savior. Nothing less than that.

 

[hid in him]

I'm going by the conventional definition of obedience, so I understand now, you don't have to be obedient after all, in that you don't have to do as God and Christ says we must do in order to get to heaven.

What are you talking about? I don’t understand your point.
If you reject God by not believing Him, in His Son, His revealed will then why call yourself a Christian rather than a pagan or Buddhist?

 

[Kenny'sID]

When you think about what scripture says that God has given every person THE measure of faith, that it is the faith (that is a gift that we have been given) that works. So whatever you DO is by faith. You feed the hungry by faith. You heal the sick by faith. You cannot do these things without faith.

Like I always say, as long as you do the works...

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

I'm going by the conventional definition of obedience, so I understand now, you don't have to be obedient after all, in that you don't have to do as God and Christ says we must do in order to get to heaven.

Everything has been done in Christ. If we have Him in us, we DO everything in Him. Scripture tells us that it is God that works in us to will and to do His good pleasure.

 

[Kenny'sID]

What are you talking about? I don’t understand your point.
If you reject God by not believing Him, in His Son, His revealed will then why call yourself a Christian rather than a pagan or Buddhist?

Where exactly did you get the idea I said not to believe in God/Christ?

If that's not what you mean by "what am I talking about", then what are you talking about?

 

[hid in him]

Like I always say, as long as you do the works...

The Christian Faith is not by works it’s by grace alone.
Works comes under the Law. Christians are not under the Law but under Grace. Christians cannot earn salvation or please God with works. Jews on the other hand are given works by faith. Our Lord Jesus Christ in the gospels peached the Gospel of the Kingdom to Jews not Gentiles. Our Lord Jesus Christ in Paul’s letters preached the Gospel of Grace to the Gentiles.
If you are a Christian don’t put yourself back under the Law where we don’t belong. That’s folly.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Like I always say, as long as you do the works...

It is not faith plus works nor faith by works. It is rather works of faith. See the difference?

 

[marineimaging]

Whether it's eternal security or some other basic truth of scripture how come no two Christians will agree with the Bible? I mean there are Christians out there that dont even believe that belief is good enough for salvation when the Bible clearly says "believe in Christ and you will be saved" in multiple spots. I mean its extremely difficult to get the truth out of scripture because everyone will interpret a particular verse differently. Why isn't there just one huge believe all belief that one can pick and say "Okay I believe that. Yay! I am saved now!"? Why all the divisions in the church and among Christians? What is the truth about scripture?

Because we are born into sin nature and thinking we have all the answers is the epitome of the sinful nature. Never forget this. The Word of God was made simple enough for the most remote Bedouin shepherd to understand and accept. God did not complicate His Word, men did. The virgin birth was easy for God who created the universe. It is weak minded men who can't understand it because they can't put their own self importance aside. That Christ was born, lived, died fully man and fully God is so difficult for the limited imagination of man to accept. Not so for the creator of all we know. Until we are with the Lord it is going to be difficult to understand how wonderful and forgiving and loving our God is.

 

[Kenny'sID]

It is not faith plus works nor faith by works. It is rather works of faith. See the difference?

It's faith without works is dead. IOW, not real faith at all, or a useless faith.

 

[hid in him]

Where exactly did you get the idea I said not to believe in God/Christ?

If that's not what you mean by "what am I talking about", then what are you talking about?

I understood your point as saying we don’t have to obey what God says to us as meaning we can effectually reject what He asks for our obedience and instead just do our own thing. In which case why call ourselves Christian and not pick any other religion/path label.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

It's faith without works is dead. IOW, not real faith at all, or a useless faith.

"sigh" While you were yet a sinner Lord Jesus died for you. You had THE measure of faith to believe even as a sinner, otherwise you could not believe and be saved. You exercised the measure of faith that is a gift from God.Through that God given faith, you believed and are saved. Now you can make it hard, but it is not hard.

 

[Kenny'sID]

I understood your point as saying we don’t have to obey what God says to us as meaning we can effectually reject what He asks for our obedience and instead just do our own thing. In which case why call ourselves Christian and not pick any other religion/path label.

No, by obedience, I meant the things that we are told that we actually have to physically do, like Christ telling us we need to take care of the poor, and if we don't we will go to hell. Taking that action for instance, is part of faith or walking the talk, and not just claiming we have faith.

As I understand it, you don't believe we have to do that, even though we are told directly and simply by Christ himself that we do..

 

[hid in him]

It's faith without works is dead. IOW, not real faith at all, or a useless faith.

I understand where you’re coming from now, you get your doctrine from the gospels and the letters addressed to the Jews aka Peter, John, James and Jude.

Our Lord Jesus preached to the Jews and told His disciples not to go to the Gentiles. Only after the Jews rejected Christ and stoned Stephen did the gospel of grace be revealed to Saul/Paul who was directed to preach it to the Gentiles.

We get our doctrine of faith without works by him, he doesn’t contradict Peter and John he is talking to a different audience. All the letters are addressed to the people intended as they discussed in Acts. Paul to the Gentiles, Peter and the rest to the Jews.

We are not under the Kingdom gospel preached in the gospel accounts and Peter, James, John and Jude they’re all addressed to Jews and the Twelve Tribes if you read carefully. 2 gospels, one for the Bride of Christ (Jews) one for the Body of Christ (Gentiles).

We can’t please God with works because that brings us our own self righteousness. We are faith alone by grace alone.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Now you can make it hard, but it is not hard.

Now, THAT, I agree with.

 

[JohnB445]

We should not let these people get to us. If they think they are whole and good enough then its their choice to reject Jesus Blood to cleanse them of their sins. I can show them scripture but unless they deny their pride and realize that they are a sinner and will never be able to please God without their faith in Jesus then there is a chance for them. But since they think they are whole and don't need the blood they will stay condemned. And yes they rejected Jesus even though they may think they haven't, its the truth.

Those who realize they are sinners in need for a savior and put their trust in him, in what Jesus did for them, will be saved. Because we realize we can't do anything to earn salvation, that its a free gift and act of Mercy from God, that its not all about behavior as most people think.

They will use the "Oh so your saying you can sin all you want" Excuse to reject Jesus blood atonement for the forgiveness of sins, I guess one road to heaven isn't enough for them.

Those who have been given the gift of eternal life, you don't have to be in constant fear. God freed you from your sins and now we can share with others the mercy of God to those who will humbly accept the free gracious gift from God.

We have a purpose in life now, and a kingdom awaits.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

While you were yet a sinner Lord Jesus died for you. You had THE measure of faith to believe even as a sinner, otherwise you could not believe and be saved. You exercised the measure of faith that is a gift from God.Through that God given faith, you believed and are saved.

Amen.
If people believed this,
and believed that Jesus continues teaching us and perfecting our faith, maturing us in Him,
and did not believe (and practice) the things that divide them from others in Jesus Body,
there would not be such problems as there are world wide.

When people abide in Jesus... this makes all the difference.

 

[Kenny'sID]

I understand where you’re coming from now, you get your doctrine from the gospels and the letters addressed to the Jews aka Peter, John, James and Jude.

Our Lord Jesus preached to the Jews and told His disciples not to go to the Gentiles. Only after the Jews rejected Christ and stoned Stephen did the gospel of grace be revealed to Saul/Paul who was directed to preach it to the Gentiles.

We get our doctrine of faith without works by him, he doesn’t contradict Peter and John he is talking to a different audience. All the letters are addressed to the people intended as they discussed in Acts. Paul to the Gentiles, Peter and the rest to the Jews.

We are not under the Kingdom gospel preached in the gospel accounts and Peter, James, John and Jude they’re all addressed to Jews and the Twelve Tribes if you read carefully. 2 gospels, one for the Bride of Christ (Jews) one for the Body of Christ (Gentiles).

We can’t please God with works because that brings us our own self righteousness. We are faith alone by grace alone.

No, I don't think you do understand, I get my Doctrine from the bible as a whole, I don't cherry pick. There is a reason for every verse in the bible.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

We should not let these people get to us. .. ... ... <those who reject Jesus> ... ... ..

We have a purpose in life now, and a kingdom awaits.

Do "these people" "get to us"/to someone ?

 

[hid in him]

No, by obedience, I meant the things that we are told that we actually have to physically do, like Christ telling us we need to take care of the poor, and if we don't we will go to hell. Taking that action for instance, is part of faith or walking the talk, and not just claiming we have faith.

As I understand it, you don't believe we have to do that, even though we are told directly and simply by Christ himself that we do..

I believe that helping those in need in merciful and necessary and that we are enabled by God to do good works but that we can’t do them of ourselves because we have no good in us only that which God has imputed to us because all things are done through Him for Him.

Correct I don’t believe that salvation is by faith and works I believe it is by faith alone by grace alone.
I believe we can do good works because God enables us by the Holy Spirit to have the desire and ability to do it.
I don’t believe doing works of good for the sake of merit, human praise or the hope of pleasing God aids are faith or salvation.

I hope that clarifies things if not I’m sorry for my lack of skill in expressing it.

Peace be with you.