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How old is the universe...? And, How big is the universe...? Discussion...?

Justatruthseeker

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In which case you are stupid. What is Lyman-alpha, woo boy?
Nothing to do with that ENA ring boy woo.

Lyman-alpha emitter - Wikipedia

"Most known LAEs are extremely distant......

.....is a type of distant galaxy that emits Lyman-alpha radiation from neutral hydrogen."

And let us all be clear what causes this emission....

Lyman series - Wikipedia

"The first line in the spectrum of the Lyman series was discovered in 1906 by Harvard physicist Theodore Lyman, who was studying the ultraviolet spectrum of electrically excited hydrogen gas."

Again, not neutral, but "electrically excited"....

Sigh, you people don't really know anything do you.... and still continue to ignore what that signature from those galaxies and the Milky-way is trying to tell you, since it is the signature of an electrically excited hydrogen atom......
 
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Justatruthseeker

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No, you are out of your depth, woo boy. As any scientist would tell you. Want to try a physics forum, instead of hiding on here?

bring your pet boys on over and they'll be destroyed without their pet moderators to protect them....
 
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ianw16

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bring your pet boys on over and they'll be destroyed without their pet moderators to protect them....

By an unqualified wooist like you? Lol. Dreamer. You haven't got the cojones to try this rubbish on a physics forum. You are waaaaay out of your depth. Due to having no understanding of physics. That is why you post here. You are a poser.
 
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ianw16

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Sigh, you people don't really know anything do you.... and still continue to ignore what that signature from those galaxies and the Milky-way is trying to tell you, since it is the signature of an electrically excited hydrogen atom......

Yes, you loon. A neutral hydrogen atom. As confirmed by decades of laboratory study, classifying these lines. On the other hand, you have nothing but misunderstanding and lies.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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By an unqualified wooist like you? Lol. Dreamer. You haven't got the cojones to try this rubbish on a physics forum. You are waaaaay out of your depth. Due to having no understanding of physics. That is why you post here. You are a poser.
Done beat them there too, until their pet moderators jump in and protect them. They are all fakers and don't know anything about science and just like you stand on 95% Fairie Dust to back up their beliefs.

Bring them on over. Can't they discuss physics here as easily as they can there???? Or does being away from their pet moderators to protect them scare them????
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Yes, you loon. A neutral hydrogen atom. As confirmed by decades of laboratory study, classifying these lines. On the other hand, you have nothing but misunderstanding and lies.
Decades of laboratory study in which the hydrogen atom is "electrically excited" to a state where it is no longer neutral. My, how easy you keep forgetting those two little words.....
 
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SelfSim

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Justatruthseeker said:
"Data provided by Ulysses led to the discovery that dust coming into the Solar System from deep space was 30 times more abundant than previously expected"
So I'll ask again, and you will continue to ignore it, if you can't get an accurate estimate of the amount of matter coming into the solar system (off by a factor of 30) until you got a probe up to study it, what makes you think their estimates of matter further away is any more correct???????
What makes you think yours are more accurate than theirs? Theirs is modelled and based on observation evidence and verified theory .. yours isn't. Yours is only based on misconceptions, misreadings and cartoon diagrams.

Demonstrate your error bars!
 
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Justatruthseeker

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And let’s smash that 6 month Planck data gathering lie as well while we are at it..

Planck telescope maps light of the big bang scattered across the universe

“Scientists compiled the map from more than 15 months of observations by the ESA's Planck telescope.”

In other words, one full revolution around the sun as mapping sunward is impossible due to the radiation emitted by the sun, just as I told you was the case.

The temperature anomaly is also easy to explain, just not in your model. Your model fails all predictions which is why Saturn’s South Pole turned out to be the hottest when they predicted it was the coldest. Some had it predicted correctly, I’ll give you threee guesses.....

The same basic principle is at work in both causes.....
 
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Justatruthseeker

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What makes you think yours are more accurate than theirs? Theirs is modelled and based on observation evidence and verified theory .. yours isn't. Yours is only based on misconceptions, misreadings and cartoon diagrams.

Demonstrate your error bars!

The model based upon their observations predicted 30 times less dust than actually existed.

What verified theory? Their theory was off by a factor of 30. That’s trash bin not even close.

What makes me think I am right? The fact they couldn’t even get it in the ball park right next door with their estimations. If they can’t predict 30 times the amount of dust than they thought existed just a hop skip and jump away, cosmological speaking, they sure don’t got it right hundreds to millions of light years distant.

You know it and I know it.

Faith, that is all you are left with when every single model they had of our own solar neighborhood was falsified. Not a single model they had was correct. This is your verified theory? The only thing they verified is that every model they had turned out to be wrong. And these are the people you put your faith in to tell you about things millions of light years distant when they can’t even get it right at the edge of our solar system?

Just incredible.....

They told you those falsified models were correct too, and one and all turned out to be wrong. Let me repeat that, EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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What, you all don’t want to talk anymore about hydrogen spectra in the lab that has been “electrically excited” matching hydrogen spectra in the milky-way and other galaxies and in clouds of hydrogen in space?

Perhaps because to match they would have to be “electrically excited” too? Just a thought you might want to contemplate....

Then maybe you can comprehend what energetic neutral atoms really are, “electrically excited”...... shhh, that’s taboo in the modern pseudoscience they call astronomy....
 
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dad

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Let's just take a look at the history of what "Sun" has meant over recorded history.
Here is the link from which I draw the relevant historical summary (from Wiki - the Sun). I'll include the hyperlinks in the text because each one of these represents yet another abstraction (or concept) having its own entire page dedicated to explaining it.

So "the Sun" has carried a multitude of meanings all the way from deities;

up to and including meanings covering concepts which would have been gibberish to, (and outright rejected by), those who had it mean it was a fixed and immutable religious deity:

Now, you infer that there is something about "the Sun" which is not a concept, eh?

So explain why the meaning for human minds conveyed by the phrase "the Sun" can change as much as it has, (as is clearly demonstrated in the quotes above), if it always was the fixed and immutable clear-cut 'thing' ('object'?) you seem to think it is.
Do this by not using any human invented concepts.

Whatever meaning a human mind holds will not stop the body lying in the hot sun from getting a sunburn.

Whatever you may think a flu/cold may be, the tissue still will contain the evidence it is not in your mind!
 
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SelfSim

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Whatever meaning a human mind holds will not stop the body lying in the hot sun from getting a sunburn.
Yep .. because that's the meaning/concept the mind gives to the word 'sunburn' .. pain, redness, inflamation, etc.

Here is the dictionary definition.
Notice the other emboldened concepts developed by humans such as 'ultra-violet'.
Now show me your non-existent evidence that 'ultra-violet' is something that 'exists' as some kind of 'thing' or object floating around in space which somehow we instantly recognise as being an 'ultra violet' without using other concepts developed by scientific minds over the years ...

sunburn
/ˈsʌnbəːn/
noun
  1. reddening, inflammation, and, in severe cases, blistering and peeling of the skin caused by overexposure to the ultraviolet rays of the sun.
    "my hands and face were raw with sunburn"
verb
  1. suffer from sunburn.
    "most of us managed to get sunburnt"
    synonyms: burnt, peeling, inflamed, red, scarlet, blistered, blistering
    "his scarlet, sunburned shoulders"

dad said:
Whatever you may think a flu/cold may be, the tissue still will contain the evidence it is not in your mind!
Aha! There it is! Right on cue! The unsupported rant and fallacy by repeated assertion (as well as an attempt at accusing me of saying it was all in my mind .. which is not what I've said ... you did .. and not me .. please desist in citing that particular lie).

Whereas I support my argument with objective evidence ..
Each of the emboldened concepts/terms above can be easily demonstrated as having the human mind's fingerprints all over them. All you have to do is look 'em up and I guarantee you there is hard evidence that all these terms acquired their meanings from how the mind describes its perceptions arising from its human senses.
 
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ianw16

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Then maybe you can comprehend what energetic neutral atoms really are, “electrically excited”...... shhh, that’s taboo in the modern pseudoscience they call astronomy....

Idiotic comment. How can something be 'electronically excited' if it hasn't got an electron? SMH. Just link to wherever you are getting this woo from, yes? Otherwise you are making it up. Due to having no grasp of the actual science.
 
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ianw16

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Just for the hard of thinking, once an ENA is created, it is no longer constrained to follow the magnetic field of the IMF. Ions, of course, are. Hence why we see these ENAs travelling in all sorts of directions, including coming back toward the Sun. An ion couldn't do that, because it is charged. And there is a magnetic field. Ions and electrons gyrate around the field lines as they head outwards from the Sun. It will depend whereabouts in that circular gyration it is when it becomes an ENA, that will determine where it heads off to, now that it is no longer constrained to stay on those field lines, due to being, errrr.......neutral! Not difficult, if you have even a basic grasp of plasma behaviour. Which the EU cranks most certainly don't.
 
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ianw16

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What, you all don’t want to talk anymore about hydrogen spectra in the lab that has been “electrically excited” matching hydrogen spectra in the milky-way and other galaxies and in clouds of hydrogen in space?

Yes, we can talk about, but I don't see the point, as you are clueless on the subject. Which H clouds are you talking about? HI or HII? The former is neutral H, which can be detected in various wavelengths due to the various transitions of the electron. Look up Lyman-alpha forest. We can also detect it in the 21 cm line. The HII (H+) clouds are detected when the ion collects an electron and becomes neutral, emitting at various frequencies, but most strongly around 656 nm.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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... energetic neutral atoms are not neutral....
They are so energetic they are putting out so much radiation they are two to three times brighter than anything else in the sky....

You keep ignoring that letter E for ENERGETIC. Energetic and neutral do not belong in the same sentence....
A word to the wise, Justatruthseeker - neutral refers to electric charge. Atoms are, by their nature, neutral; they contain the same number of protons as electrons. If you add or remove an electron, they become ions, with the respective electric charge.

But an atom can be excited or energetic. This means that it is not in its ground state, its lowest possible energy state; i.e. one or more of its electrons is in a higher orbital than it could be. Such atoms can radiate energy by such an electron dropping to a lower orbital, emitting a photon of characteristic energy.

So an excited or energetic neutral atom is a perfectly legitimate concept, and is not an ion.

This is physics & chemistry 101, basic stuff.
 
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sjastro

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It had everything to do with it.... You still can't bring yourself to accept that energetic neutral atoms are not neutral....

Cant give up your pseudoscientific beliefs in neutrality....
You mean the excited hydrogen atom is not neutral.
Enough is enough show us a textbook reference, a peer reviewed paper etc which supports this nonsense, otherwise stop engaging in this stupid lying.

There you go again, continuing to blame Hubble for something he didn't even believe in.

Let's try this again, see if you can keep up...

"Hubble believed that his count data gave a more reasonable result concerning spatial curvature if the redshift correction was made assuming no recession. To the very end of his writings he maintained this position, favouring (or at the very least keeping open) the model where no true expansion exists, and therefore that the redshift "represents a hitherto unrecognized principle of nature."

Hubble did not believe in expansion, by crediting him with its discovery you are blaming him for that pseudoscience..... Hubble believed there was another as then yet undiscovered cause that better explained his count data and would give a more reasonable result concerning spatial curvature.

What, if you didn't believe in something you think you would appreciated being blamed for it after your death when you were not there to defend your viewpoint?????

Final warning if you continue to take me out of context over Hubble or any other subject matter I will start reporting your posts to the moderators.

Last and final warning. Keep that up and, never mind, your a child, I should expect nothing less....

A New Non-Doppler Redshift

Bremsstrahlung - Wikipedia

Not that I expect you to understand either of them, which it is clear you do not.....
What happened to the mechanism involving QM/QED word salad?
Has it suddenly gone out of fashion as I had to remind you your previous excursion into the subject matter involved Bremmstrahlung?

Shows how much you understand...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&ved=2ahUKEwjA2dKSkpHfAhXn3YMKHYZPDHsQFjADegQIBBAC&url=https://www.springer.com/cda/content/document/cda_downloaddocument/9783319006116-c2.pdf?SGWID=0-0-45-1398306-p175157874&usg=AOvVaw3O6j5XXBCy-N7sBuvA8bEG

mechanism of continuum spectrum

"Radiation is produced via various processes (radiation processes). Emission mechanism of continuum radiation includes blackbody radiation, thermal bremsstrahlung, synchrotron radiation, and Compton scattering."

https://www.mrao.cam.ac.uk/~kjbg1/lectures/lect3.pdf

https://apatruno.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/lecture52.pdf

"The smaller the frequencies, the larger the optical depth. This means that radiation is absorbed more and more before leaving the system. But this is precisely what a blackbody is! So at low frequencies we expect a blackbody like spectrum."

Nothing more about your lack of knowledge needs to be said.....

No it doesn't. See above. It represents the thermal radiation given off by the deceleration of the solar wind......

"The smaller the frequencies, the larger the optical depth. This means that radiation is absorbed more and more before leaving the system. But this is precisely what a blackbody is! So at low frequencies we expect a blackbody like spectrum."
You did a Google search using the terms “Optical Depth”, “Bremmstrahlung” and “Blackbody” and came up with the above links.
Once you found the links with the required words your default position was achieved, namely your ideas are automatically validated and everyone else is wrong and deficient; without even having to understand the detail behind the links.
This is why you are an individual of low intelligence.

If you did have a grain of intelligence and at the very least tried reading the links, you would have realised that Bremmstrahlung occurs in a plasma medium located between the source of ions/electrons and the observer.
The ions/electrons move towards the observer.
This is where optical depth of the medium comes into the picture as it is the percentage of radiant energy from Bremmstrahlung passing through the medium that reaches the observer.

In your nonsensical mechanism the exact opposite occurs; the ions/electrons (solar wind) are moving away from the observer towards the interstellar medium located at the boundary of the solar system.
There is no optical depth to speak of as there no photons passing through the interstellar medium back to the observer.
If you had even the vaguest understanding of Bremmstrahlung, the radiated photons follow a forward dipole angular distribution where no photons will reach the observer.

Congratulations rather than demonstrating your intellectual prowess this is another foot in mouth job where your link makes a mockery of your pet theory rather than supporting it.
Strawman as a simple search would have showed you its context in other threads....

Search Results | Christian Forums

But a careful person would have bothered to read the post that started this whole conversation and realize the term heliosphere was used which is synonomous with heliopause...

How old is the universe...? And, How big is the universe...? Discussion...?
Don’t insult the intelligence of the readers.

There was no collisions or veering of the solar wind at all. Every single model they had of the heliopshere or heliopause was falsified. So which falsified model are you relying on????

We have already discussed your continuing to use falsified models....

How old is the universe...? And, How big is the universe...? Discussion...?

"What we are seeing in these maps does not match with any of the previous theoretical models of this region."
Another example where Bremmsstrahlung is beyond your understanding.
If there are no collisions or veering of the solar wind then it also rules out Bremmstrahlung.
Why don’t you try reading your own links

Neither do you, what part of that ribbon of "energetic neutral atoms" did you not understand????
A truly stupid statement; what should I understand about ENA’s that explains the discrepancy of the CMB having a temperature of 2.7K yet measurements of the CMB in your pet model is around 500,000K.

No, really? The entire sky? Which is why the deceleration of the solar wind is in a 360 degree sphere around the earth. And while you scan forward away from the sun it is blue shifted and while you scan backwards away from the sun it is red shifted. Which is why the mad shows a curved dividing line.

View attachment 246675

If it was due to our galaxies motion, this is not the image that would be produced. Also no other spectra in any direction beyond the local cluster is blue shifted...
Another blatant lie and as you don't even comprehend the significance of the image let alone assess that it is not caused by our galaxy's motion.
What happened to “it’s caused by the Earth’s orbit” or has it suddenly gone out of fashion like your QM/QED word salad; or is it you are just too scattered brained in producing a coherent consistent argument.

One thing is certain however you have put your foot in your mouth again as the caption to your attachment states “The CMBR Dipole: Speeding through the Universe” which is quite definitive in explaining what is causing the dipole.

I don't know, why aren't you calculating all that new mass discovered? remember, it wasn't discovered until AFTER Dark matter was proposed.... Don't you think that should at least change your calculations since there is now twice as much mass as the galaxy now to adjust the parameters with? Yes, a person with critical thinking skills would ask himself that. Apparently that excludes you.....
Why don’t you do the calculations for us instead?
It’s quite simple the total mass of the Universe using (Ωm, Ωλ) = (0.3, 0.7) is around 3 X 10⁵⁵g, now add up all the discovered mass and see if it equals the dark matter component.

You got twice as much mass as the galaxy itself. That is far more than your petty 25%, plus there you go again, ignoring the electromagnetic forces in plasma.....
This is why asking you to calculate the missing mass is ultimately a futile exercise beyond your intellectual capacity as the 25% value is based on the total mass of the Universe, doubling the mass of the galaxy results in an infinitesimal increase.

Thanks for inadvertently demonstrating why the extra mass doesn’t make up the numbers.

You really do ignore everything you don't want to hear don't you?

Yes, only someone dense would believe we arent immersed in this halo.....

View attachment 246676

And let's not forget that "dust" (read plasma here) that was 30 times more abundant than they believed....

Ulysses (spacecraft) - Wikipedia

"Data provided by Ulysses led to the discovery that dust coming into the Solar System from deep space was 30 times more abundant than previously expected"

So I'll ask again, and you will continue to ignore it, if you can't get an accurate estimate of the amount of matter coming into the solar system (off by a factor of 30) until you got a probe up to study it, what makes you think their estimates of matter further away is any more correct???????

Faith despite direct falsification of what they believed????

This is right next door cosmologically speaking and they couldnt get even anywhere close to the reality. And you actually think that despite every single model they had being wrong, and being off by a factor of 30, they got it right where they can't even get direct measurements?????

Faith indeed......
So dust equals plasma????
If you think it amounts to increasing the mass the Universe by a factor of 30 then all the faith lies with you.
That puts the icing on the cake for your totally ridiculous response plus the sulking nature that would have done an immature 12 year old proud.
To conclude let me warn again if you continue making up stories and attributing them to me I will start reporting your posts.
 
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dad

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Yep .. because that's the meaning/concept the mind gives to the word 'sunburn' .. pain, redness, inflamation, etc.

Here is the dictionary definition.
Notice the other emboldened concepts developed by humans such as 'ultra-violet'.
Now show me your non-existent evidence that 'ultra-violet' is something that 'exists' as some kind of 'thing' or object floating around in space which somehow we instantly recognise as being an 'ultra violet' without using other concepts developed by scientific minds over the years ...

sunburn
/ˈsʌnbəːn/
noun
  1. reddening, inflammation, and, in severe cases, blistering and peeling of the skin caused by overexposure to the ultraviolet rays of the sun.
    "my hands and face were raw with sunburn"
verb
  1. suffer from sunburn.
    "most of us managed to get sunburnt"
    synonyms: burnt, peeling, inflamed, red, scarlet, blistered, blistering
    "his scarlet, sunburned shoulders"

Aha! There it is! Right on cue! The unsupported rant and fallacy by repeated assertion (as well as an attempt at accusing me of saying it was all in my mind .. which is not what I've said ... you did .. and not me .. please desist in citing that particular lie).

Whereas I support my argument with objective evidence ..
Each of the emboldened concepts/terms above can be easily demonstrated as having the human mind's fingerprints all over them. All you have to do is look 'em up and I guarantee you there is hard evidence that all these terms acquired their meanings from how the mind describes its perceptions arising from its human senses.
Objective evidence that the sun does stuff outside your head? Easy.

"Plants


According to artificial UV light exposure studies on crops, UV rays decrease the crop yield in key crops, such as rice, soy, oats, beans and sorghum. The plants minimize their exposure to UV by limiting the surface area of foliage, which in turn impairs growth. The observed drop in yield, however, does not seem serious enough for scientists to sound the alarm.


Animals
Excessive exposure to UV radiation can cause cancers in mammals, including humans, and damage their eyesight. While fur protects most animals from direct overexposure to damaging rays, the radiation may damage the unprotected body parts, such as the nose, paws and muzzle.


Marine Life
According to a NASA education web page updated in 2001, increased amounts of UV-B waves adversely affects marine plankton that populate the first 7 feet (2 meters) of ocean water. The natural response of the most chlorophyll-packed cells is to produce more light-absorbing pigments or sink lower in the water for self-protection. However, evading the sun reduces their ability to go through photosynthesis, which means they cannot grow or reproduce as normal.

Competition
UV exposure may also adversely change a species' ability to compete with other species. In the future, UV-resistant plants may prevail over UV-vulnerable ones, meaning that UV-resistant plants, such as tetraploid plants, will overtake plants easily damaged by UV rays, such as the wild, diploid version of the plant, according to research at Tokai University Japan."

https://www.hunker.com/13418807/how-does-uv-exposure-affect-plants-animals

The effects of the sun. Neither are the effects of time. Man is not the only creature or physical body that time affects in a real way. S stop trying to make it sound like man invented the universe will ya?
 
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sjastro

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And let’s smash that 6 month Planck data gathering lie as well while we are at it..

Planck telescope maps light of the big bang scattered across the universe

“Scientists compiled the map from more than 15 months of observations by the ESA's Planck telescope.”
The reference is from this peer reviewed paper.
https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0910/0910.5102.pdf
So author and the peer review panel are liars are they?
Rather than this being the case, as usual it’s your inability to read and comprehend.
It took 6 months to scan the whole sky but to increase the S/N ratio; there is 15 months worth of data.

In other words, one full revolution around the sun as mapping sunward is impossible due to the radiation emitted by the sun, just as I told you was the case.
You have got to be kidding and stop insulting the intelligence of the reader.
Let me remind of your original quote.
“Except the scans of the CMB are not a continuous scan. They are made at the same time during the year so the satellite is in the correct hemisphere.”
First of all the dead giveaway was to refer to the “correct hemisphere” as you obviously thought initially Planck was in an Earth orbit.
Secondly your revision is not correct either as Planck was not in a solar orbit but orbited around the L₂ Lagrangian point.
Thirdly by referring to this latest link you have admitted your original quote was based on a lie as I stated at the time.

Far from taking any credit you have yet again put your foot in your mouth by inadvertently admitting you lied.

The temperature anomaly is also easy to explain, just not in your model. Your model fails all predictions which is why Saturn’s South Pole turned out to be the hottest when they predicted it was the coldest. Some had it predicted correctly, I’ll give you threee guesses.....

The same basic principle is at work in both causes.....
Why don’t you bring the tooth fairy into the discussion as well as it has as much relevance.
 
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