Hebrews Sabbath rest, how do you read it?

[ace of hearts]

Yep you did. I already posted that the root is JESUS you ignored the rest of the post showing they scripture showing that some of the branches that were broken off with UNBELIEVING ISRAEL. The rest of the branches are BELIEVING ISRAEL. Gentiles are grafted into the sams rootstock JESUS who BELIEVING ISRAEL are.

Yet you also claim we (the Christian) is graft into Israel. So what are we graft into? Jesus isn't Israel.

 

[ace of hearts]

Well that one has no truth in it. If you cannot respond to the posts and scriptures that disagree with you brother please just say so.

As posted earlier...

Your trying to make a case that Romans 14 is talking about the Sabbath when the Sabbath is not even mentioned neither holy days in the whole book of Romans. If Romans 14 is not talking about the Sabbath why pretend that it is?

..............

Romans 14:5 is not speaking of Holy days. It is talking about days that men esteem. Not what days God esteems. Your trying to read into the scriptures something that it is not saying. There is no reference to God's 4th commandment in all the book of Romans.

If you disagree please respond to the second half of post # 86 linked that shows in detail why your interpretation of Romans 14:5 is not biblical.

I've done that without any response on those passages. You do however provide lots of other passages claiming the ones I post are invalid. We can't be free and bound to the law at the same time. Gal 5 says if you return to the law, Jesus is of no value to you. That means no Jesus - no salvation. I've heard this which I think is true -

Know Jesus - no law.
Know law - no Jesus.

That's exactly what Galatians 5 says. The same chapter also says if we're led by the Spirit, we're not under (obligated to) the law.

 

[ace of hearts]

Nope. Is ROMANS 14:5 talking about days that men esteem or days that God esteems? There is no reference to God's 4th Commandment in all the book of Romans.

Where is the scripture that says God's 4th Commandment is abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day?

Are you saying the 7th day sabbath isn't holy to you? I'm not asking for a reason. Do you set aside the sabbath as holy for you? This whole part of the forum is about the law and the sabbath, a holy day for some.

 

[ace of hearts]

Sorry brother there is no missapplying anything unless you think Jesus is mistaken? I just quoted scripture from JESUS and JESUS says...

MARK 2:27 27, And he said to them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath

Jesus says that the Sabbath was made for Mankind. It is a memorial of creation. Moses was not a Jew was he? Either were Adam and Eve. The Sabbath was made well before any JEWS were made.

EXODUS 20:8-11
[8], Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
[9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
[10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY>
[11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

Sorry brother it is God's WORD not mine that answers your question directly and it disagrees with you.

Hope this helps

Yes that's why Moses said it was for Israel. Moses indicated no where the sabbath was for the world. Your claim is God changed His mind after what, 4,000 years. Don't you claim God doesn't change? If what you claim is true the sabbath was created for all mankind, Moses is a liar. Do you believe liars?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Yet you also claim we (the Christian) is graft into Israel. So what are we graft into? Jesus isn't Israel.

Not at all. I have always posted in God's WORD showing that we are grafted into the ROOT which is Christ. The branches represent God's ISREAL. Gentiles are grafted in with God's ISRAEL and are a part of the same rootstock which is Christ.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I've done that without any response on those passages. You do however provide lots of other passages claiming the ones I post are invalid. We can't be free and bound to the law at the same time. Gal 5 says if you return to the law, Jesus is of no value to you. That means no Jesus - no salvation. I've heard this which I think is true -

Know Jesus - no law.
Know law - no Jesus.

That's exactly what Galatians 5 says. The same chapter also says if we're led by the Spirit, we're not under (obligated to) the law.

No, you haven't you have simply chosen to ignore God's WORD that disagrees with you.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Are you saying the 7th day sabbath isn't holy to you? I'm not asking for a reason. Do you set aside the sabbath as holy for you? This whole part of the forum is about the law and the sabbath, a holy day for some.

Are you saying days that men esteem are Holy days and days that God esteems are not Holy days? Where in Romans 14 does it talk about the Sabbath?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Yes that's why Moses said it was for Israel. Moses indicated no where the sabbath was for the world. Your claim is God changed His mind after what, 4,000 years. Don't you claim God doesn't change? If what you claim is true the sabbath was created for all mankind, Moses is a liar. Do you believe liars?

Here is a simple question to help you brother. When was the Sabbath made before sin entered the world or after sin entered the world? *GENESIS 2:1-3.

If it was made BEFORE sin entered the world than is Jesus correct by saying that the Sabbath was made for mankind? *MARK 2:27?

How does anything written to you here contradict what Mosses said? Didn't you just say that God's 4th Commandment is only for the JEWS when JESUS says it is for mankind *MARK 2:27.

Moses was not a JEW, either were the other 11 tribes of ISRAEL who were not from Judah. So are you saying now that the Sabbath is only for the one tribe of ISRAEL (Judah) which is where JEWS come from? Sorry brother your post does not make any sense.

ALL of GOD'S WORD is for God's people. God's ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL you have no part in the NEW COVENANT *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Gentiles are now grafted in. ROMANS 11:13-27

Hope this helps

 

[liberty of conscience]

Are you saying days that men esteem are Holy days and days that God esteems are not Holy days? Where in Romans 14 does it talk about the Sabbath?

For that matter, where does it even mention "holy days"?

 

[liberty of conscience]

Are you saying the 7th day sabbath isn't holy to you? I'm not asking for a reason. Do you set aside the sabbath as holy for you? This whole part of the forum is about the law and the sabbath, a holy day for some.

The seventh day the sabbath of the LORD thy God is Holy. It remains Holy. It was sanctified by God. No man can undo this or change this.

1Ch_17:27 Now therefore let it please thee to bless the house of thy servant, that it may be before thee for ever: for thou blessest, O LORD, and it shall be blessed for ever.

Thus it is blessed "for ever".

God asks (commands) us to "keep" it "holy".

We do not make anything holy.

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

God sanctified and hallowed (made holy) it:

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

It is Holy to God and to all those who obey Him. It is not holy to all those who profane Him.

The sabbath is already set aside by God Himself from the foundation of the world.

We are to set aside ourselves (self) to keep it holy.

Lev_11:44 For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Lev_20:7 Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I am the LORD your God.

1Pe_1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;

1Pe_1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

 

[liberty of conscience]

I've heard this ... -

Know Jesus - no law.
Know law - no Jesus.

... said the devil (I did not call you him, I speak of that which you heard spoken from him).

Jesus died to magnify the law. Not to rid the world/us of it. Isaiah 42:21.

Col_2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Christ Jesus is the living example of the Ten Commandments.

In His heart (the Ark of God), the heart of the New and Everlasting Covenant is the Law of God, the Ten Commandments:

Psa 40:6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.
Psa 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,
Psa 40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
Psa 40:9 I have preached righteousness in the great congregation: lo, I have not refrained my lips, O LORD, thou knowest.
Psa 40:10 I have not hid thy righteousness within my heart; I have declared thy faithfulness and thy salvation: I have not concealed thy lovingkindness and thy truth from the great congregation.

Psa 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.

Psa 119:151 Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth.

Psa 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.

Luk_6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

Luk_18:18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

Rom_7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Deu_4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Mat_12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

 

[mark kennedy]

Sorry brother but the second half of post # 86 linked shows in detail why your interpretation of Romans 14:5 is not biblical. If you believe it is then please address the post and the sciptures in them that disagree with you.

Simply saying you understand Romans 14 perfectly when a post has been provided to you looking at all the context and scriptures that disagree with your interpretation of one verse does not make God's WORD dissappead.

This is sent only in love brother. Take the time prayerfully read the scriptures provided for you. It can only be a blessing to you.

You misunderstand that service to God is only the result of faith that work's by LOVE because we choose to believe and follow God's WORD because we love him who first loved us. We are not saved by service but service is a result of love *JOHN 14:15; 1 JOHN 4:19; ROMANS 13:8-10; ROMANS 3:31.

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.

I know Romans, studied it for years and what it says is crystal clear about one person considering a day more holy then another and another doesn't, this is not an interpretive challenge requiring special insight. Sunday has always been special to Christians, in many cases a New Testament equivalent to the Jewish Sabbath but the Sabbath rest is in the completed work of Christ on the cross. I've fielded more of these threads then I care to remember and it's always the same, a text without a context is a pretext and this particular verse doesn't even require the context to understand the clear meaning. Revisiting these timeless truths of Scripture are always a blessing and I'm perfectly confident that the meaning is clear on the surface, in the middle and especially given the larger context because Paul is always focused on the core message of Christ and him crucified. Have you somehow managed to miss that?

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I know Romans, studied it for years and what it says is crystal clear about one person considering a day more holy then another and another doesn't, this is not an interpretive challenge requiring special insight. Sunday has always been special to Christians, in many cases a New Testament equivalent to the Jewish Sabbath but the Sabbath rest is in the completed work of Christ on the cross. I've fielded more of these threads then I care to remember and it's always the same, a text without a context is a pretext and this particular verse doesn't even require the context to understand the clear meaning. Revisiting these timeless truths of Scripture are always a blessing and I'm perfectly confident that the meaning is clear on the surface, in the middle and especially given the larger context because Paul is always focused on the core message of Christ and him crucified. Have you somehow managed to miss that?

Grace and peace,
Mark

If you have studied Romans for years, where does it say in God's WORD as you have said that one person considers a day more HOLY then another? Where is the scripture that says Gods 4th commandment has been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep SUNDAY as a Holy day?

Fact is brother you misinterpret Romans 14:5 and have to write into the scripture something it is not saying. If you understand Romans 14 as well as you say you do then you would have no problem addressing all the scriptures in the second half of post # 86 linked which shows in detail why your interpretation of Romans 14:5 is not biblical. If you believe your interpretation of Romans 14:5 biblical then why can you not address the post and the sciptures in them that disagree with you?

Simply saying you understand Romans 14 perfectly when a post has been provided to you looking at all the context and scriptures that disagree with your interpretation of one verse does not make God's WORD dissappear.

This is sent only in love brother. Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

 

[mark kennedy]

If you have studied Romans for years, where does it say in God's WORD as you have said that one person considers a day more HOLY then another? Where is the scripture that says Gods 4th commandment has been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep SUNDAY as a Holy day?

Fact is brother you misinterpret Romans 14:5 and have to write into the scripture something it is not saying. If you understand Romans 14 as well as you say you do then you would have no problem addressing all the scriptures in the second half of post # 86 linked which shows in detail why your interpretation of Romans 14:5 is not biblical. If you believe your interpretation of Romans 14:5 biblical then why can you not address the post and the sciptures in them that disagree with you?

Simply saying you understand Romans 14 perfectly when a post has been provided to you looking at all the context and scriptures that disagree with your interpretation of one verse does not make God's WORD dissappead.

This is sent only in love brother. Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

I never said it was abolished, I said it was fulfilled in Christ. If I never participate in the Lord's Supper that doesn't mean I do not embrace what it represents. I'm not following any teachings or traditions other then what is clear in Scripture and your exposition isn't even an exposition, just you telling me I'm wrong because you have some private interpretation.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I never said it was abolished, I said it was fulfilled in Christ. If I never participate in the Lord's Supper that doesn't mean I do not embrace what it represents. I'm not following any teachings or traditions other then what is clear in Scripture and your exposition isn't even an exposition, just you telling me I'm wrong because you have some private interpretation.

Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you. Please feel free to address with posts and scriptures in them that disagree with you. Just ignoring these scriptures do not make them dissappear and there is a lot of them. Sent with all love brother.

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.

 

[mark kennedy]

Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you. Please feel free to address with posts and scriptures in them that disagree with you. Just ignoring these scriptures do not make them dissappear and there is a lot of them. Sent with all love brother.

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.

No it doesn't and thanks.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

No it doesn't and thanks.

If you disagree please respond to the second half of post # 86 linked that shows in detail why your interpretation of Romans 14:5 is not biblical.

 

[mark kennedy]

If you disagree please respond to the second half of post # 86 linked that shows in detail why your interpretation of Romans 14:5 is not biblical.

Nothing to respond to, the verse is straight forward and obviously applies to Sabbath days, or Sunday as the case might be. Judaism was big on this, leading Paul to issue this dire warning:

But now that you know God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you are turning back to those weak and worthless principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! I fear for you, that my efforts for you may have been in vain. (Gal. 4:9-11)
​

Watch out for that slippery slope.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Nothing to respond to, the verse is straight forward and obviously applies to Sabbath days, or Sunday as the case might be. Judaism was big on this, leading Paul to issue this dire warning:

But now that you know God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you are turning back to those weak and worthless principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! I fear for you, that my efforts for you may have been in vain. (Gal. 4:9-11)
​

Watch out for that slippery slope.

You do know brother that Saturday and Sunday was never an issue of contention at the time Paul wrote Romans right? That is why the Sabbath is not mentioned in the entire book of Romans except collectively as the law of God in general.

Sorry my brother but God's Word disagrees with you. This has been demonstrated through the scriptures in the second half of post # 86 linked.

If you are unwilling and not able to respond to the scriptures in the linked post above that disagree with you then this is between you and God. The scriptures in the linked post were sent only in love as a help to you. They demonstrate your interpretation is in error. Your response is to simply ignore this post and the scriptures in them that disagree with you.

What do you base your claims on then if you cannot prove what you are saying through the Word of God? If you cannot prove your claims through the Word of God when your interpretation of the scriptures are challenged, does this not concern you?

Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) that give us the knowledge of sin if broken (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4). If we knowingly break it just like any of the other commandments when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

Something to think about and pray about brother. Thanks for sharing your thoughts though. You are free to believe and do as you wish brother as we all answer only to God come judgment day. This is sent only in love.

May God help you as you seek him through his Word.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

But now that you know God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you are turning back to those weak and worthless principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! I fear for you, that my efforts for you may have been in vain. (Gal. 4:9-11)
​

Watch out for that slippery slope.

Just wanted to examine your slippery slope claim..

GALATIONS 4:4-11
[4], But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, [5], To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. [6], And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. [7], Therefore you are no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. [8], But then, when you knew not God, you did service unto them which by nature are no gods. [9], But now, after you have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn you again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? [10], You observe days, and months, and times, and years. [11], I am afraid for you, lest I have bestowed upon you labor in vain.

GALATIONS 4 [8] Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.[9] But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? [10] YE OBSERVE DAYS, AND MONTHS, AND TIMES, AND YEARS. [11] I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

NOTE: Galatians 4 says nothing about sabbaths does it? Its speaking of those who observe times and other gods that are not God!

DEUTERONOMY 18:9 [9] When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.[10] There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, OR AN OBSERVER OF TIMES, or an enchanter, or a witch,[11] Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

NOTE: The same thing goes on to this very day. Its speaking of the occult. Those who observe certain days by use of horoscopes?

2 CHRONICLES.33:3 [3] For he built again the high places which Hezekiah his father had broken down, and he reared up altars for Baalim, and made groves, and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served them.[4] Also he built altars in the house of the LORD, whereof the LORD had said, In Jerusalem shall my name be for ever.[5] And he built altars for all the host of heaven in the two courts of the house of the LORD.[6] And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: ALSO HE OBSERVED TIMES, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger

NOTE: Enchantments, witchcraft, familiar spirits, and wizards. Its speaking of the occult. Not following the God's 4th Commandment.

LEVITICUS 19:26 [26] Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, NOR OBSERVE TIMES.[27] Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.[28] Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.[29] Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a harlot; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness.[30] YE SHALL KEEP MY SABBATHS, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

................

CONCLUSION: I guess this scripture says it all. You shall not observe times BUT you will keep my sabbaths. (shared by a brother - WALL).

Your intepretation of the scripture here brother makes Paul contradict himself as he kept God's 4th Commandment Sabbath with both JEWS and GENTILES *ACTS 13:14-15; 42-44; ACTS 16:13; ACTS 17:1-2; ACTS 18:4-5.

The slippery slope is thinking we can continue in known unrepentant sin and enter into God's Kingdom when the wages of sin is death to all those who continue in it and reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-27.

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.