Baptized in the Spirit and speaking in tongues?

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Who told you that?

It is quite clear from a simple literal reading of the reference without adding a prejudicial religious bias to it.

 

[Bipolar]

I have heard people say that if you dont speak in tongues then you're not baptized in this spirit. Is this true or false? Is it biblical or not biblical? Thank you.

Let me tell you my experience about speaking in tongues. First I would like to say this is the what I believe today. There are many opinions about tongues. What forms everyone's belief is the sum total of what they have been taught and choose to believe and the experience or revelation God has given them! The Holy Spirit reveals all Truth. I always say "Truth is truth no matter what I believe!" Tongues will be debated till the giver of all Truth returns. I believe what happened at Pentecost and what happened in my prayer closet are two different things. I did not always believe this. There are many teachings on tongues. You can read about Pentecost in Acts. I believe what experienced in my prayer closet after two weeks of fasting and prayer is taught in Romans 8:26 NLT In the same way the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For example, we don't know what God wants us to pray for. But the Holy Spirit prays for us with groanings that cannot be expressed in words.
What goes on in public meetings does need an interpreter. Romans 12:10 ....to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and another the interpretation of tongues. Two different gifts. Two different people. If you read all of chapter 12 you see we need all of the gifts to function how God intends.

Conclusion! One gift is no more important then the other! I believe those who teach you are not complete unless you speak in tongues are not speaking truth because of what the Bible says in Romans 12!

 

[Dave L]

What many miss is, God always provided the Holy Spirit through the word. He provided the gift through tongues. Both in the two outpourings and by tongues given to others through the apostles' hands. And when scripture became complete, he provides the Holy Spirit through the words of scripture. This is a thread that runs throughout the NT.

 

[swordsman1]

Your bible must have one or two pages missing that contain 1 Corinthians 14. Oh, maybe not all of the chapter because you do quote verse 22, but ignore the rest.

Where in 1 Cor 14 does it say tongues is a non-human language?

 

[swordsman1]

Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. - 1 Corinthians 14:39

Forbid not... Don't disallow it!

What about counterfeit tongues? Should we allow that?

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

I don't recognise your authority for saying that. What are you going to do about that?

I do not need to do anything about it.Scripture opposes what you claim,so I will stay with revealed truth.
Oral Roberts did not have a conversation with a 900 ft Jesus.
The Virgin Mary does not make appearances all over the place.
People making unbiblical claims about hearing or seeing Jesus does no other make it so.
The bible is complete now.We have been given all that pertains to life and godliness according to the Apostle Peter.2pet1
I believe his writings and the authority given to Him eph2:20

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

So you think that quoting Scripture at people is going to save them? How are you going to deal with an Atheist who doesn't believe anything in the Bible no matter how much you quote it at him?

Oscar we are instructed to give a faithful proclamation of truth.
If God gives an atheist a new heart,he will be able to welcome it.
If not we bear witness against him. 2cor2 :14-17, 2cor4:1-6
The power in the gospel is the quickening work of the Spirit,eph2:1-4.
Not in us.

 

[swordsman1]

I know it's supposed to be another language, but just because we can't discern what language it is, cause it could be a very, very long dead language that none of knows or maybe even ever has known (here), but "elsewhere" and at "other times", and in "other places"...

Some say it impossible not to speak or make sounds that are not, or have not been "a language somewhere at some time"....

So, even if it's just babble due to being overwhelmed by the Spirit, it could be a long ago, long dead language that used to exist "somewhere" at "some time"...

As long as your/they're only doing it for their own edification and is for, and/or is between just them and God, I don't see a problem with it... We don't know if it ever once used to be a, or an actual language or not, so we shouldn't judge them, unless, "unless" they are clearly abusing it, then maybe we should say something, but, other than that, no, leave them alone, and don't pass judgement on them...

Now if they are passing judgment on you for it (either having it not having it, ect) or because of, or due to it, then you may have to "put them in their place" so to speak, but other than that, leave them and don't judge them if they are not judging you...

God Bless!

If today's 'tongues' are extinct human languages then it would be easy for linguists to spot this. Professional linguists have been studying Pentecostal tongues for decades. Hundreds of samples of tongues have been analysed and all have proved to devoid of any syntax or linguistic structure. They have not found a single example of a genuine language being spoken. The most respected is by Dr. William Samarin of the University of Toronto who did a 10 year study of Pentecostal tongues. Here are some excerpts from his study:

"There is no mystery about glossolalia. Tape recorded samples are easy to obtain and to analyze. They always turn out to be the same things: strings of syllables made up of sounds taken from among all those that the speaker knows, put together more or less haphazardly but which nevertheless emerge as word-like or sentence-like units”

"The speaker controls the rhythm, volume, speed and inflection of his speech so that the sounds emerge as pseudo- language -- in the form of words and sentences. Glossolalia is language-like because the speaker unconsciously wants it to be language-like. Yet in spite of superficial similarities, glossolalia fundamentally is not language.”

"All specimens of glossolalia that have ever been studied have produced no features that would even suggest that they reflect some kind of communicative system.”

"When the full apparatus of linguistic science comes to bear on glossolalia, this turns out to be only a facade of language; although at times a very good one indeed. For when we comprehend what language is, we must conclude that no glossa, no matter how well constructed, is a specimen of human language, because it is neither internally organized nor systematically related to the world man perceives."

"...a meaningless but phonologically structured human utterance believed by the speaker to be a real language but bearing no systematic resemblance to any natural language, living or dead."

“And it has already been established that no special power needs to take over a person's vocal organs; all of us are equipped with everything we need to produce glossolalia”

"Glossolalia is not a supernatural phenomenon....It is similar to many other kinds of speech humans produce in more or less normal circumstances, in more or less normal psychological states. In fact, anybody can produce glossolalia if he is uninhibited and if he discovers what the "trick" is"​

 

[swordsman1]

No need for it... Paul found a need for it at one time...

3 And when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks, and laid them on the fire, there came a viper out of the heat, and fastened on his hand.
4 And when the barbarians saw the venomous beast hang on his hand, they said among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live.
5 And he shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm. - Acts 28

6 Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen down dead suddenly: but after they had looked a great while, and saw no harm come to him, they changed their minds, and said that he was a god.

Right. If you admit that picking up deadly snakes and drinking poisons is not for today, then the same must be true of the other abilities on that list. You can't just cherry pick and say some are for today, while others (that ones that are rather harder to counterfeit) are not.

 

[ncc70]

I have heard people say that if you dont speak in tongues then you're not baptized in this spirit. Is this true or false? Is it biblical or not biblical? Thank you.

not true....

 

[swordsman1]

In Acts 2, it says that the believers spoke in tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.

That speaks a lot to me, because these were not natural human languages like Greek, Aramaic or Hebrew, as one poster in this thread is trying to insinuate. These were unknown tongues generated by the Spirit through the believers. I can't tell you how those unlearned languages came out in a way that all those pilgrims in Jerusalem heard the disciples praising God in their own regional languages. I just don't know, other than it was a miracle.

The languages the disciples spoke are listed right there Acts 2. "Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and [k]Asia...."

So, the more comprehensive information concerning tongues comes in 1 Corinthians 14. If Paul thought the tongues were different to the Day of Pentecost, he would have said so too, but he saw tongues as unlearned languages, and if they were spoken in church, they needed interpretation for the listeners to understand what was being said.

Seeing that Luke was with Paul for most of Paul's ministry, he would have explained tongues to him and described what happened at Pentecost, so Paul's description of tongues would be consistent with Luke's, but Luke was a diarist not a Bible teacher. Paul is the Bible teacher, so his teaching of tongues would extend Luke's description and give believers insight into its correct use.

Exactly. There is no re-definition of tongues in 1 Corinthians or anywhere else in scripture. Whatever tongues was in Acts 2 is the same throughout.

 

[swordsman1]

Paul is quite clear that when a person speaks in tongues, "no man understands him." Paul does not say something, and meaning something else. If he said that no man understands him, then that is what he meant. The usual use of tongues is the speaking and praying in an unlearned, unknown language.

The word 'unknown' does not appear in the Greek. It was added by the KJV translators. Nor is there any translation that says "no man understands him". All modern translations say "no one understands". And the context of that verse is church meetings - no one in the meeting understands an unrecognized language spoken in tongues. That doesn't mean it was a non-human language. If someone was speaking say Persian in a small Greek house-church then it is no surprise that no one understands.

 

[swordsman1]

Otherwise Luke would have reported that the Spirit had given them the ability to speak all these known languages. But he did not say that. He said the crowd heard the languages, not that the disciples actually spoke them.

Yes he did. Luke said "each one of them was hearing them speak in his own language". He spells out what exactly what the foreigners heard. They heard the disciples speaking in their native languages. It wasn't a voice in their heads automatically translating the disciples words.

 

[W2L]

False...

Not saying you can't, cause there is certainly nothing wrong with it, (except when it's abused) (another topic) but you certainly don't "have to", to have the Spirit of God in you, with you, working in and through you, ect...

Speaking in tongues is just one gift of the Spirit, and He is not that "limited" cause He is very much very "multifaceted" and there are many, many gifts of the Spirit, which speaking in tongues is only one of...

Oh, and it is Biblical... but not everyone is to "all each all" speak in tongues but only those with that specific gift, and it's not required and certainly not required for everyone...

But just like any gift of the spirit, it can be abused/misused/misapplied, used to manipulate/deceive, ect... (like I said, another topic)...

God Bless!

Thanks for the re

 

[W2L]

I asked you first to show me where in Acts manifestations are discriminately given so let's take this one request at a time

I cant show you, thats why i asked you to show me.

 

[W2L]

Conclusion! One gift is no more important then the other! I believe those who teach you are not complete unless you speak in tongues are not speaking truth because of what the Bible says in Romans 12!

Are you saying that im not complete unless i speak in tongues?

 

[Maryna S.]

I have heard people say that if you dont speak in tongues then you're not baptized in this spirit. Is this true or false? Is it biblical or not biblical? Thank you.

In short completely and utterly no. I grew up in a Pentecostal church my whole life and was always around tongues and prophesying, even kids of the age of 7 had tongues that weren't even converted real believers. Its sad that they grow up thinking that they are going to heaven because they have the Holy Spirit (What they think is tongues), yet are self-deceived and have no reverence to God. And back to your question, when God opens your eyes Romans 3:11 Ephesians 2:8-10 , you are baptized with the Holy Spirit right there and then! The Spirit was promised to us even from the Old Testament Ezekiel 36:26-27 He promised to give us a new heart with new desires to love God and love righteousness and give us a new Spirit to help us, guide us. 1 Corinthians 6:19 . John 14:16 I will ask the Father and He will give you another helper. God (Spirit) lives within us, as believers, our bodies are the temple of God. And tongues in the bible was a real language used to spread the gospel to people of all nations, so when they went to different lands people were amazed that they could understand them. Acts 2:6-8 It was a temporary gift and even the bible says that tongues and prophesying will cease 1 Corinthians 13:6 . It is not needed right now and the "tongues" used in churches nowadays is not biblical, chaotic, not peaceful, definitely not from the Spirit of God. Tongues back then were used for a specific purpose, to preach and further the gospel. Read the word for yourself to and learn the history behind it, pray for understanding and God Bless.

 

[rockytopva]

Right. If you admit that picking up deadly snakes and drinking poisons is not for today, then the same must be true of the other abilities on that list. You can't just cherry pick and say some are for today, while others (that ones that are rather harder to counterfeit) are not.

When my niece was in Kindergarten she had a friend get hit by a baseball very hard in the face. My niece laid her hand on that friend and pray a healing prayer over her in the name of Jesus. That friend just about immediately healed up and the next day there was no trace of what happened.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Where in 1 Cor 14 does it say tongues is a non-human language?

Nowhere. I guess that is why it is called "unknown tongues".

 

[W2L]

In short completely and utterly no. I grew up in a Pentecostal church my whole life and was always around tongues and prophesying, even kids of the age of 7 had tongues that weren't even converted real believers. Its sad that they grow up thinking that they are going to heaven because they have the Holy Spirit (What they think is tongues), yet are self-deceived and have no reverence to God. And back to your question, when God opens your eyes Romans 3:11 Ephesians 2:8-10 , you are baptized with the Holy Spirit right there and then! The Spirit was promised to us even from the Old Testament Ezekiel 36:26-27 He promised to give us a new heart with new desires to love God and love righteousness and give us a new Spirit to help us, guide us. 1 Corinthians 6:19 . John 14:16 I will ask the Father and He will give you another helper. God (Spirit) lives within us, as believers, our bodies are the temple of God. And tongues in the bible was a real language used to spread the gospel to people of all nations, so when they went to different lands people were amazed that they could understand them. Acts 2:6-8 It was a temporary gift and even the bible says that tongues and prophesying will cease 1 Corinthians 13:6 . It is not needed right now and the "tongues" used in churches nowadays is not biblical, chaotic, not peaceful, definitely not from the Spirit of God. Tongues back then were used for a specific purpose, to preach and further the gospel. Read the word for yourself to and learn the history behind it, pray for understanding and God Bless.

Thanks for the reply.