Was 1948 the Regathering of Israel in Bible Prophecy?

[LittleLambofJesus]

The New Testament elect are exclusively the faithful and obedient who have placed their trust in Christ.

Luke 18:7
And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
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Good verse by Luke.
Luke and Revelation go together like white on rice.........

The great harlot in Revelation 19:2 is Jerusalem 70ad.....

"DAYS OF VENGEANCE" Isaiah 61:2 and Luke 21:22 Revelation

Luke 18:7
“And shall God not avenge<1557> His own elect/chosen who cry out day and night to Him, though He bears long with them? [Revelation 6:10 Revelation 19:2]

Revelation 6:10
and they were crying with a great voice saying,
'how long! O Master, the Holy and the True, dost Thou not judge
and take vengeance/avenge<1556> of our blood from those dwelling upon the land?'
Revelation 19:2
because true and just/righteous<1342> are His judgments,
because He did judge the great harlot who did corrupt the land in Her whoredom,
and He did avenge<1556> the blood of His bond-servants at Her Hand;

Mat 23:
35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you,
38 Look, your house is left to you desolate.

Revelation 18:19
And they cast dust upon their heads and cried-out, weeping and mourning, saying "Woe! Woe! the great city, wherein all were made rich, that had ships at sea, by reason of her prices. That to one hour She was desolated




.

 

[DavidPT]

The great harlot in Revelation 19:2 is Jerusalem 70ad.....

Revelation 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

If this is meaning the harlot though, and if the harlot is meaning Jerusalem in 70 AD, why is it that the following is not true then----and shall be found no more at all?

Anyone living in the real world knows Jerusalem can still be found, to this very day even. Whatever is meant by that great city Babylon, once Revelation 18:21 is fulfilled, it will be as if it had never existed. When the text indicates it shall be found no more at all, it literally means that, and that it is meaning that for forever. Therefore I don't see the harlot being Jerusalem in 70 AD fitting the texts involved. But if it is meaning Jerusalem though, which is possible since there will be a NJ, thus no reason for the old Jerusalem to remain, it still wouldn't be meaning 70 AD.

 

[Choose Wisely]

The New Testament elect are exclusively the faithful and obedient who have placed their trust in Christ.

Luke 18:7
And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?

Romans 8:33
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Colossians 3:12
Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

2 Timothy 2:10
Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Romans 11:5
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Romans 11:7
What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

1 Thessalonians 1:4
Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

1 Peter 5:13
The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.

2 Peter 1:10
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall.

Oh........I see..........the new testament elect. We both know why you qualified that. Your problem is that God keeps his promises........always.

 

[Choose Wisely]

Actually it was more like the corrupt murderous Judean rulers .......
Remember the NC also included a change of Priesthood to one of Spirit.....

Mat 3:7
But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them,
“Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the being about wrath to come?
Luk 3:7
Then he said to the multitudes that came out to be baptized by him,
“Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the being wrath to come?

G1067 γέεννα (geenna), occurs 12 times in 12 verses

Matthew 23:
15 Woe to ye Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
That ye are going about the sea and the dry to make one proselyte, and whenever he may be becoming, ye are making him a son of geennhV<1067> twofold-more of ye-selves
33 "Serpents! brood of vipers!
how? ye may be fleeing from the judging of the geennhV <1067>
[Ezekiel 39:12/Reve 14:11]

Revelation 14:11
And the Smoke of the tormenting of Them is ascending into Ages to-Ages.......... [Ezekiel 39:12/Luke 16:24,26]

Matthew 23:37
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!

Revelation 19:3
And a second-time they have declared "allelouia
and the Smoke of Her is ascending into the Ages of the Ages".
[Ezekiel 22:17-22 Luke 21:22-23]

Is the GREAT CITY in Revelation symbolizing the LAKE OF FIRE?

1067. geena of Hebrew origin (1516 and 2011);
valley of (the son of) Hinnom; ge-henna (or Ge-Hinnom),
a valley of Jerusalem, used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment:--hell

The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch was originally in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). For this reason the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Soṭah 22a); according to Gen. R. ix. 9, the words "very good" in Gen. i. 31 refer to hell; hence the latter must have been created on the sixth day.

Yet opinions on this point vary. According to some sources, it was created on the second day; according to others, even before the world, only its fire being created on the second day (Gen. R. iv., end; Pes. 54a).
The "fiery furnace" that Abraham saw (Gen. xv. 17, Hebr.) was Gehenna (Mek. xx. 18b, 71b; comp. Enoch, xcviii. 3, ciii. 8; Matt. xiii. 42, 50; 'Er. 19a, where the "fiery furnace" is also identified with the gate of Gehenna)....
The statement that Gehenna is situated in the valley of Hinnom near Jerusalem, in the "accursed valley" (Enoch, xxvii. 1 et seq.), means simply that it has a gate there. It was in Zion, and had a gate in Jerusalem (Isa. xxxi. 9). It had three gates, one in the wilderness, one in the sea, and one in Jerusalem ('Er. 19a)......................

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The god Moloch? And who would Moloch be?

 

[jgr]

Oh........I see..........the new testament elect. We both know why you qualified that. Your problem is that God keeps his promises........always.

What other elect is there?

 

[Choose Wisely]

Do you have any UN-loaded questions you would like help with?

So you're saying that you can't back your statement up with scripture. Pretty common around here. Most doctrine around here is supported by scripture taken out of context...........and the blind roll on not realizing that God will do exactly what He says He would do.

 

[Choose Wisely]

What other elect is there?

Oh, Israel mine elect. Imagine that.
Isaiah 45:4
For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

Isaiah 65:9
And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.

 

[jgr]

Oh, Israel mine elect. Imagine that.
Isaiah 45:4
For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

Isaiah 65:9
And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.

Israel was comprised of those who were faithful and obedient, and those who were unfaithful and disobedient.

Was Israel comprised of two elects?

Imagine that.

 

[Choose Wisely]

As to the 12 tribes.

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

It's pretty obvious to some of us that the church is meant here. And this was already the case some 2000 years ago.

James 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.


Still speaking to these same brethren that he addressed as brethren in verse 2 of chapter 1, after greeting them, addressing them as the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad.

Let me ask this then. Let's say that there is a rapture of the church before the GT. And let's say, instead of the rapture having yet to occur, it occurs in James day during the time he is addressing the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad. Regardless that this is only hypothetical, the fact no such rapture took place at that time, but let's say had it, these that James is addressing, the twelve tribes scattered abroad, would they have been included in the rapture, or would they have been left behind?

It was God's desire that they would be in the 1st harvest......before the Gentiles. However they served other Gods so they will be in the second harvest. FYI the fig tree has two harvests.

Hos 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

 

[Choose Wisely]

Israel was comprised of those who were faithful and obedient, and those who were unfaithful and disobedient.

Was Israel comprised of two elects?

Imagine that.

No.

 

[jgr]

No.

I don't need to ask the next question.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

usexpat97 said: ↑
Do you have any UN-loaded questions you would like help with?

So you're saying that you can't back your statement up with scripture. Pretty common around here. Most doctrine around here is supported by scripture taken out of context...........and the blind roll on not realizing that God will do exactly what He says He would do.

LLoJ walks up, sniffs the bait, and flees!

EZEKIEL 22 "GATHER HOUSE OF ISRAEL INTO JERUSALEM TO MELT IN FURNACE/GEHENNA"

Ezekiel 22:
1 And there is a word of Yahweh unto me, saying, 2 ‘And thou, son of adam! dost thou judge? dost thou judge the City of blood? then thou hast caused it to know all its abominations,
17 And there is a word of Yahweh unto me, saying, ‘Son of adam!
18 The House of Israel hath been to Me for dross, All of them [are] brass, and tin, and iron, and lead, In the midst of a furnace — dross hath silver been,
19 Therefore, thus said Adonay Yahweh: Because of your all becoming dross, Therefore, behold! I am gathering you unto the midst of Jerusalem[Passover 70ad],
20 A gathering of silver, and brass, and iron, and lead, and tin, Unto the midst of a furnace — to blow on it fire, to melt it, So do I gather in Mine anger and in My fury, And I have let rest, and have melted you.
21 And I have heaped you up, And blown on you in the fire of My wrath<5678>, And ye have been melted<5413> in its midst.
22 As the melting of silver in the midst of a furnace, So are ye melted in its midst,
And ye have known that I, Yahweh have poured out My fury<2534> upon you.’

Mat 23:33
'Serpents! brood of vipers! how may ye escape from the judgment of the gehenna?

Revelation 15:1
And I perceived another sign in the heaven, great and marvelous. Seven Messengers having seven stripes/blows, the last
that in them is finished the fury<2372> of the GOD..............

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover.
At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country, and from distant parts, to keep the festival and the city was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers...........


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[keras]

I don't need to ask the next question.

But the answer is that it is we Christians who are the Elect of God, His chosen ones and ethnic Israel; namely the Jewish people, now have no claim to any special treatment. The entire New Testament is the proof of this truth.

 

[Danoh]

So who is the elect meaning here if not the church? Let me guess. It's meaning those that were left behind after the rapture of the church prior to the GT, and that they become saved, thus no longer deceived. Even if that were true, though it isn't, if they become saved that makes them of the church unless you want to claim one can become saved post Christ's death and resurrection, yet not be part of the church. And guess what? These left behinders, once they are saved after the rapture of the church, they go through the GT since there would be no rapture to spare them of this if the rapture already occurred. Either way you look at it, the church goes through the GT after all, yet Pretribbers are claiming it doesn't. Pretrib is a contradiction. No contradiction could possibly be of the truth.

It is your obvious confusion that has you seeing all the above as you are.

For example, the idea that once one becomes saved, they are no longer deceived, is NOT supported by Scripture.

Much of "the NT" is devoted to adressing the issue of Believers who have ended up deceived and or warning Believers of the need to be ever vigilant against other's would be and or one's own self-deception.

Which means one thing - not only that you are going by your OWN reasoning, but a reasoning you yourself have failed to properly challenge the possible holes of against what Scripture might have to say about your conclusion before allowing yourself said conclusion.

The rest of your post faired no better.

Rom. 5:6-8.

 

[Danoh]

As to the 12 tribes.

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

It's pretty obvious to some of us that the church is meant here. And this was already the case some 2000 years ago.

James 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.


Still speaking to these same brethren that he addressed as brethren in verse 2 of chapter 1, after greeting them, addressing them as the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad.

Let me ask this then. Let's say that there is a rapture of the church before the GT. And let's say, instead of the rapture having yet to occur, it occurs in James day during the time he is addressing the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad. Regardless that this is only hypothetical, the fact no such rapture took place at that time, but let's say had it, these that James is addressing, the twelve tribes scattered abroad, would they have been included in the rapture, or would they have been left behind?

Yes, they would have been left behind.

They were scattered abroad in Acts 8 - which is why James exhorts them regarding the trying of their faith in James 1, with the persecution that arose back when the Sanhedrin was persecuting them.

At that time (Acts 8), Israel was then headed for Israel's Prophesied Day of Wrath, see what Peter said in Acts 4 about Israel and the Gentile Nations against the LORD and His Anointed (Christ) - which is a Day of the Lord's Wrath passage.

But then, relates Romans 9, God delayed said Prophesied Wrath, saved Paul, and so on.

While, in 2 Thessalonians, he relates to them - after he finds out that someone had deceived these SAVED people - he relates what he had then believed (for he had not known only until the end of his life, that he would not live to see the Lord's return in his lifetime, see end of 2 Tim.) - he relates to the Thessalonians that the Temple is up and running when the Lord returns.

In other words, had the Rapture happened back then, then the next event on God's calendar for the Twelve Tribes, Believing and Unbelieving - in other words, the Nation Israel - would have been what the Lord told the Twelve Apostles in the latter half of Matthew 10.

But that persecution, etc., followed by His Return in His Wrath, followed by His redeeming Israel back unto Himself, was delayed, Romans 9, etc.

Nehemiah 8:8

 

[BABerean2]

Much of "the NT" is devoted to adressing the issue of Believers who have ended up deceived and or warning Believers of the need to be ever vigilant against other's would be and or one's own self-deception.

Which means one thing - not only that you are going by your OWN reasoning, but a reasoning you yourself have failed to properly challenge the possible holes of against what Scripture might have to say about your conclusion before allowing yourself said conclusion.

Do you think the man-made doctrine of "Mid-Acts Dispensationalism" has all the answers?

When you point one finger at others, your other fingers are pointing back in your direction.

.

 

[DavidPT]

It is your obvious confusion that has you seeing all the above as you are.

For example, the idea that once one becomes saved, they are no longer deceived, is NOT supported by Scripture.

Much of "the NT" is devoted to adressing the issue of Believers who have ended up deceived and or warning Believers of the need to be ever vigilant against other's would be and or one's own self-deception.

Which means one thing - not only that you are going by your OWN reasoning, but a reasoning you yourself have failed to properly challenge the possible holes of against what Scripture might have to say about your conclusion before allowing yourself said conclusion.

The rest of your post faired no better.

Rom. 5:6-8.

The point still is, you try and deceive someone not already deceived, and not someone already deceived. Genesis 3 proves that point. Eve wasn't already deceived when the serpent initially tempted her. She became deceived by his tempting of her.

The point of the false prophets, etc, in the Discourse, is to try and lead those away from the truth that already know the truth. It connects with the falling away in 2 Thessalonians 2.

 

[DavidPT]

Yes, they would have been left behind.

They were scattered abroad in Acts 8 - which is why James exhorts them regarding the trying of their faith in James 1, with the persecution that arose back when the Sanhedrin was persecuting them.

At that time (Acts 8), Israel was then headed for Israel's Prophesied Day of Wrath, see what Peter said in Acts 4 about Israel and the Gentile Nations against the LORD and His Anointed (Christ) - which is a Day of the Lord's Wrath passage.

But then, relates Romans 9, God delayed said Prophesied Wrath, saved Paul, and so on.

While, in 2 Thessalonians, he relates to them - after he finds out that someone had deceived these SAVED people - he relates what he had then believed (for he had not known only until the end of his life, that he would not live to see the Lord's return in his lifetime, see end of 2 Tim.) - he relates to the Thessalonians that the Temple is up and running when the Lord returns.

In other words, had the Rapture happened back then, then the next event on God's calendar for the Twelve Tribes, Believing and Unbelieving - in other words, the Nation Israel - would have been what the Lord told the Twelve Apostles in the latter half of Matthew 10.

But that persecution, etc., followed by His Return in His Wrath, followed by His redeeming Israel back unto Himself, was delayed, Romans 9, etc.

Nehemiah 8:8

This is an interesting perspective. Let me think on it a bit before I try and respond to this post.

 

[DavidPT]

Israel was comprised of those who were faithful and obedient, and those who were unfaithful and disobedient.

Was Israel comprised of two elects?

Imagine that.

This is a good point. Yet the house of Israel meant in Ezekiel 39 appears to fit the latter better. Meaning before God has poured out His spirit upon them, when He was hiding His face from them. And the point I have tried making in the past, is that the fulfillment of Ezekiel 39:29 appears to be after the judgment of Gog and his multitude, and that this judgment appears to not have been fulfilled as of yet.

 

[Choose Wisely]

LLoJ walks up, sniffs the bait, and flees!
.

LLoJ walks up, sniffs the bait, stirs the bait, then returns to her corner.