GOD'S WORD vs TRADITIONS OF MEN; Sabbath vs Sunday

[LoveGodsWord]

No that's not correct. If one takes only verse 27 considering nothing else, you might have a point. Here's the conversation with Jews -

24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?

25 And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him?

26 How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him?

27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

What sabbath were they talking about? Isn't it the one from Exodus 20? What's your evidence it was given to the whole world? Deut 4 and 5 says Israel only.

Another question I have for you is why did God wait 4,000 plus years to inform mankind?

Also read Exodus 13:31.

Of course the Sabbath was made for all mankind. Let's look at the scriptures.

When was the Sabbath made?

GENESIS 2:1-3
[1], Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
[2], And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
[3], And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

It is the SEVENTH DAY of the CREATION WEEK..

The SABBATH was made as part of the creation week BEFORE SIN, the fall of mankind and God's plan of salvation for mankind when MANKIND was in perfect harmony with God. It is the SEVENTH DAY of the creation week.

JESUS says that the SABBATH was made for man and that is the reason why the SABBATH was made *MARK 2:27-28. This is the LORD'S DAY *MATTHEW 12:8 that God has commanded his people to REMEMBER and KEEP AS A HOLY DAY and it one of the 10 COMMANDMENTS *EXODUS 20:8-11 that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOEUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. If we KNOWINGLY continue breaking any one of them we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:18-20; 26.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Please explain why John doesn't use the word "sabbath" in Rev 1:10. Everywhere else in John's works/writings he uses the word "sabbath" when talking about it.

Because it was revealed to JOHN and the other dsiciples that JESUS was the God of CREATION * JOHN 1:1-4; 14; MARK 2:27-28; MATTHEW 12:8 and JESUS made the SABBATH for mankind. Something that the mainstream religion of the day did not believe.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I find no evidence the Sabbath was made during creation week. The word "sabbath" doesnb't5 appear in Genesis.

Let's look at the scriptures and the origin of God's 4th commandment SABBATH from the CREATION week and look at the HEBREW word meanings used in CREATION and God's 10 Commandments.

GENESIS 2:1-3
[1], Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
[2], And on the SEVENTH DAY God ended his work which he had made; and he RESTED [H7673 שָׁבַת shâbath, shaw-bath´means to KEEP SABBATH REST] on the SEVENTH DAY from all his work which he had made.
[3], And God blessed the SEVENTH DAY, and SANCTIFIED [H6942 קדשׁ; qâdash means to set apart and made holy] it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

links to...

EXODUS 20:8-11
[8], Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day; DIRECT REFERENCE TO GENESIS 2:3)
[9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
[10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY>
[11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT (DIRECT REFERENCE TO GENESIS 2:3).

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WORD STUDIES ON REST AND SABBATH MEANINGS

RESTED 7673. שָׁבַת shâbath, shaw-bath´; a prim. root; to repose, i.e. desist from exertion; used in many impl. relations (caus., fig. or spec.):—(cause to, let, make to) cease, celebrate, cause (make) to fail, keep sabbath, suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) rest, rid, still, take away.

The word RESTED used above in Genesis 2 is the root word used of the 4th Commandment. This word means to "KEEP SABBATH" to desist from exertion [context is work or ending work and blessing and making the SEVENTH DAY a HOLY DAY].

Now let's look at the HEBREW word used for SABBATH in EXODUS 20:8-11.

SABBATH 7676. שַׁבָּת shabbâth, shab-bawth´; intens. from 7673; intermission, i.e. (spec.) the Sabbath: every sabbath.

The SABBATH as defined in God's Word as v10 The SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH OF THE LORD YOUR GOD because God BLESSED the SEVENTH DAY in the creation week outlined in GENESIS 2:1-3 and made the SEVENTH DAY a HOLY DAY of rest [שָׁבַת shâbath] [keep Sabbath]. The word used in the God's 4th Commandment "SABBATH" means the commandment is applied to EVERY SEVENTH DAY [שַׁבָּת shabbâth].

................

Let's look at the scriptures here a little further....


The 4th commandment of the 10 Commandments is a MEMORIAL of CREATION and a sign to his people that they worship the only true God of CREATION. This is an EVERLASTING COVENANT between God and his people.

EXODUS 31:13-17 [13], Speak also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths you shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that you may know that I am the LORD that does sanctify you. [14], You shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defiles it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. [15], Six days may work be done; but on the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever does any work on the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. [16], Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a EVERLASTING covenant. [17], It is a sign between me and the children of Israel forever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

New Living Translation
The people of Israel must keep the Sabbath day by observing it from generation to generation. This is a covenant obligation for all time.

English Standard Version
Therefore the people of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, observing the Sabbath throughout their generations, as a covenant forever.

New American Standard Bible
'So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.'

King James Bible
Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

Christian Standard Bible
The Israelites must observe the Sabbath, celebrating it throughout their generations as a permanent covenant.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Let the children of Israel keep the sabbath, and celebrate it in their generations. It is an everlasting covenant

Darby Bible Translation
And the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations -- [it is] an everlasting covenant.

Now all of this links into the next key scripture as follows

............................

ISAIAH 66:22-23 [22], For as the NEW HEAVENS AND THE NEW EARTH, which I will make, shall remain before me, says the LORD, so shall your descendants and your name remain. [23], And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and FROM ONE SABBATH TO ANOTHER, shall all flesh come to worship before me, says the LORD.

............................

CONCLUSION: Yep the scriptures are pretty clear here that God's SABBATH is an EVERLASTING COVENANT that will be kept in the NEW EARTH that began in Genesis 2:1-3 in the SEVENTH DAY of the creation week. God's 4th Commandment Sabbath is one of the 10 Commandments that give us a KNOWLEDGE of what sin is of broken.

................

SIN is still the same as it has always been which is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?


Hope this helps.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

ace of hearts said: ↑ I find no evidence the Sabbath was made during creation week. The word "sabbath" doesnb't5 appear in Genesis.

Yep lot's of scripture evidence brother hope these posts helps.

 

[sparow]

Thanks for your agreement.

Catholics (RCC) weren't the first in this case. What we call Scripture was written well before then. All of Paul's writings are first century letters. Acts was written about 62 AD. There's many historical records recording assembly of saints on Sunday (The Lord's Day) for worship and fellowship prior to 200 AD. Some may have been quoted in this thread.

Sermon of the Archbishop of Reggio to the Council of Trent on the Power of the Church

Quote;
Then, one morning, January 18, 1562, the archbishop of Rheggio hurried from his room and appeared before his confreres to proclaim that he had the answer. Protestants, he urgently reasoned, never could defend Sunday sacredness,8 If they continued to offer as their authority “the Bible and the Bible only,” it was clear that they had no Bible command for the first day of the week. According to Pallavicini, papal champion of the council, the archbishop said, “It is then evident that the church has power to change the commandments,” because by its power alone and not by the preaching of Jesus it had transferred the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday.9 Tradition, they concluded, was not antiquity, but continuous inspiration. None could continue to fight the acceptance of tradition when the only authority for Sunday sacredness in the church was tradition. This discovery nerved the council to go forward with its work. Unquote.

 

[ace of hearts]

Because it was revealed to JOHN and the other dsiciples that JESUS was the God of CREATION * JOHN 1:1-4; 14; MARK 2:27-28; MATTHEW 12:8 and JESUS made the SABBATH for mankind. Something that the mainstream religion of the day did not believe.

I don't understand how this explains John's change of terms. Sorry.

 

[ace of hearts]

Sermon of the Archbishop of Reggio to the Council of Trent on the Power of the Church

Quote;
Then, one morning, January 18, 1562, the archbishop of Rheggio hurried from his room and appeared before his confreres to proclaim that he had the answer. Protestants, he urgently reasoned, never could defend Sunday sacredness,8 If they continued to offer as their authority “the Bible and the Bible only,” it was clear that they had no Bible command for the first day of the week. According to Pallavicini, papal champion of the council, the archbishop said, “It is then evident that the church has power to change the commandments,” because by its power alone and not by the preaching of Jesus it had transferred the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday.9 Tradition, they concluded, was not antiquity, but continuous inspiration. None could continue to fight the acceptance of tradition when the only authority for Sunday sacredness in the church was tradition. This discovery nerved the council to go forward with its work. Unquote.

You don't appear to understand the New Covenant.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I don't understand how this explains John's change of terms. Sorry.

Why not? It shows that JOHN believed that JESUS was the GOD of creation and the LORD' and creator of the SABBATH DAY that the God of creation BLESSED, set apart and made HOLY for mankind *JOHN 1:1-4; 14; MARK 2:27-28; MATTHEW 12:8.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You don't appear to understand the New Covenant.

How can anyone understand the NEW COVENANT if they do not understand the OLD COVENANT that pointed to the NEW?

 

[sparow]

You don't appear to understand the New Covenant.

You have an understanding of the new covenant and I have an understanding of two new covenants; one made by Jesus with the lost sheep of Israel and one (or many) made up by people calling themselves Christian.

 

[ace of hearts]

Why not? It shows that JOHN believed that JESUS was the GOD of creation and the LORD' and creator of the SABBATH DAY that the God of creation BLESSED, set apart and made HOLY for mankind *JOHN 1:1-4; 14; MARK 2:27-28; MATTHEW 12:8.

No because your idea disagrees with Rev 4 and 5.

 

[ace of hearts]

How can anyone understand the NEW COVENANT if they do not understand the OLD COVENANT that pointed to the NEW?

What about the Old Covenant do you think I don't understand? Yes the Old Testament has many things that point to the New Covenant. It starts in Genesis 3, which has nothing to do with the covenant given to Israel at Sinai.

 

[ace of hearts]

You have an understanding of the new covenant and I have an understanding of two new covenants; one made by Jesus with the lost sheep of Israel and one (or many) made up by people calling themselves Christian.

I'd like to see some reference to these different new covenants.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

No because your idea disagrees with Rev 4 and 5.

Not at all brother it shows that John agrees with what he has stated earlier that JESUS is the God of creation and the SABBATH is the LORD'S DAY as stated in MATTHEW 12:8; JOHN 1:1-4; 14 and MARK 2:27-28. None of that disagrees with REVELATIONS 4-5 whatsoever.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

What about the Old Covenant do you think I don't understand? Yes the Old Testament has many things that point to the New Covenant. It starts in Genesis 3, which has nothing to do with the covenant given to Israel at Sinai.

Actually it has everything to do with the OLD COVENANT it is the background to why it was given. You do know that there is more to the OLD COVENANT then the 10 commandments right?

 

[sparow]

How can anyone understand the NEW COVENANT if they do not understand the OLD COVENANT that pointed to the NEW?

I wonder, do we agree on this point? How is the new covenant different to the old?

How are they the same? Both are blood covenants; both require the commandments; when the commandments are broken both require the shedding of blood.

I see the covenant as a standard contract that is reused; and the covenant has been renewed many times; each time a remnant comes out; the new covenant is not different in this way.

How the new covenant is different without changing the contract:

We have a King, a different priest hood; a different High Priest whose duties are performed once across the interval between the first and second comings, yet still in accord with Sanctuary Law.

We have a better mediator; the new covenant is better in many ways but the law remains unchanged. The Blood is shed for the remission of sin; the covenant confirmed in part.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I wonder, do we agree on this point? How is the new covenant different to the old?

How are they the same? Both are blood covenants; both require the commandments; when the commandments are broken both require the shedding of blood.

I see the covenant as a standard contract that is reused; and the covenant has been renewed many times; each time a remnant comes out; the new covenant is not different in this way.

How the new covenant is different without changing the contract:

We have a King, a different priest hood; a different High Priest whose duties are performed once across the interval between the first and second comings, yet still in accord with Sanctuary Law.

We have a better mediator; the new covenant is better in many ways but the law remains unchanged. The Blood is shed for the remission of sin; the covenant confirmed in part.

Good post brother sparrow! I think we may agree in deed. Many mix up God's eternal law (10 Commandments) which where a part of the OLD COVENANT which is the standard of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS in both the OLD and NEW COVENANT with the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 which hold the SHADOW laws of the OLD COVENANT pointing to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the NEW. These are fulfilled in the NEW COVENANT. This means no more animal sacrifices and sin offerings, no more earthly Sanctuary and Priesthood which all pointed to JESUS and to the Heavenly Sanctuary and JESUS as our great high priest and perfect sacrifice for sin. These were all SHADOWS that the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 pointed to in the NEW. The NEW COVENANT is all of this and God's LAW that was written on stone to the fleshly tables of the heart to love as we walk in the Spirit through faith in God's promises *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10; GALATIANS 5:16.

Thanks for sharing brother, nice to see someone reading God's WORD.

God bless.

 

[ace of hearts]

Not at all brother it shows that John agrees with what he has stated earlier that JESUS is the God of creation and the SABBATH is the LORD'S DAY as stated in MATTHEW 12:8; JOHN 1:1-4; 14 and MARK 2:27-28. None of that disagrees with REVELATIONS 4-5 whatsoever.

Your idea of what those verses say does.

 

[ace of hearts]

Actually it has everything to do with the OLD COVENANT it is the background to why it was given. You do know that there is more to the OLD COVENANT then the 10 commandments right?

What in your post shows something I don't understand about the Old Testament or covenant?

 

[ace of hearts]

I wonder, do we agree on this point? How is the new covenant different to the old?

How are they the same? Both are blood covenants; both require the commandments; when the commandments are broken both require the shedding of blood.

I see the covenant as a standard contract that is reused; and the covenant has been renewed many times; each time a remnant comes out; the new covenant is not different in this way.

How the new covenant is different without changing the contract:

We have a King, a different priest hood; a different High Priest whose duties are performed once across the interval between the first and second comings, yet still in accord with Sanctuary Law.

We have a better mediator; the new covenant is better in many ways but the law remains unchanged. The Blood is shed for the remission of sin; the covenant confirmed in part.

Where does any verse require the keeping of the law for salvation?