Was 1948 the Regathering of Israel in Bible Prophecy?

[keras]

I wish you guys posted biblical arguments. All I hear is science, DNA, culture, etc. Or they post endless scripture with no explanation that actually refutes their points.

This comment, slightly unintelligible BTW, shows how you simply fail to read what we do post. Biblical truths don't suit your beliefs, so you just gloss over them.

It's the jewish race denial Israel denial nonsense that's setting you guys apart

No one is saying there are no Jews. But what you want to do is to make those who do say they are Jews, into God's chosen people.
This belief is a serious contradiction of much scripture. Also the historical record proves that the majority of those who say they are Jews, are actually not at all. Just as Jesus said in Revelation 2:9.

Your beliefs are opposed to the clear teaching of there being no longer any value in ethnicity. Ephesians 2:11-18,

 

[jgr]

It's the jewish race denial Israel denial nonsense that's setting you guys apart. It's embarrassing.

You seem steadfastly unable or unwilling to acknowledge that it is the Jewish religiocultural communities themselves that are the enthusiastic sources, endorsers, and promulgators, of the genetic evidence presented.

You may be unable to bear such a thought.

That does not, however, alter its reality.


We ourselves are just the messengers.

 

[Biblewriter]

You seem steadfastly unable or unwilling to acknowledge that it is the Jewish religiocultural communities themselves that are the enthusiastic sources, endorsers, and promulgators, of the genetic evidence presented.

You may be unable to bear such a thought.

That does not, however, alter its reality.


We ourselves are just the messengers.

I have more confidence in the explicitly stated words of an all knowing and totally truthful God than in all the arguments of mere men.

 

[BABerean2]

I have more confidence in the explicitly stated words of an all knowing and totally truthful God than in all the arguments of mere men.

If that were true you would show us what you have written in your books about the fulfillment of the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.

You would also acknowledge the words of Paul found below.

1Ti_1:4 nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith.


Tit_3:9 But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless.

.

 

[Biblewriter]

Where and when did I ever, even once. post anything about genealogies?

 

[Biblewriter]

Since its beginnings, dispensationalism has incessantly and loudly proclaimed that it is Israel that is the fulfillment and heir of a vast array of God's promises and bequests. One need only read and hear a small fraction of dispensationalism's prodigious prophetic output to recognize that Israel is the chief cornerstone in the foundation of the dispensational prophetic edifice.

Consequently, not even Christ Himself is permitted to replace Israel as the anointed recipient of that which dispensationalism believes it is entitled to. In any and every instance whenever it appears that Israel's entitlements are being questioned, charges such as “calling God a liar”, “anti-Semitic”, "evil", "heretical", and various other epithets are directed at the perceived offender. It is the equivalent of identity politics within the church of God. Thus Christ is denied His own entire, rightful, and exclusive entitlements as Fulfillment and Heir of all of God's promises and bequests.

The reason is self-evident. Israel's removal as the anointed recipient is the equivalent of the removal of dispensationalism's chief cornerstone, and the consequent and unavoidable collapse of the edifice which it supports. The result is effectively dispensational detonation, and the disappearance of a pervasive, not to mention lucrative, presence and influence within the Church.

But Scripture is unequivocal in its declarations, notwithstanding the denials directed at it.

Revelation 19:10
“...the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy”

Israel does not substitute for Jesus.

Jesus declares Himself to be the Fulfillment of all things concerning Himself.

Luke 24:44
And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Other Scriptures confirm His declaration, and further declare Him as Heir of all things.

2 Corinthians 1:20
For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Hebrews 1:1,2
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

There is no substitute for “all”.

In summation of which, Scripture declares:
Colossians 3:11
“...Christ is all, and in all”

Notice that Israel is conspicuous by its absence in the foregoing declarations.

The reason: It's not about Israel at all.

It's all about Him.

This is just more disinformation, falsely pretending that Dispensationalism is new. The very oldest surviving Christian commentary on Bible prophecy (of any significant length) clearly taught that "the Jews" would be brought back to their land, and after being brought back they would be converted.

And both that document and the very oldest surviving Christian commentary on scripture (as opposed to a commentary on a scriptural subject) very clearly taught that the seventieth week (of Daniel's prophecy of the seventy weeks) remained to be fulfilled in the future.

So, in actual fact, Dispensationalism is as old as the church itself.

In addition, you have, as usual, accused us of teaching things we neither teach or believe.

 

[BABerean2]

Where and when did I ever, even once. post anything about genealogies?

Your doctrine dies without it.

.Have you decided that being a "Jew" has nothing to do with genealogy?

.

 

[jgr]

I have more confidence in the explicitly stated words of an all knowing and totally truthful God than in all the arguments of mere men.

Yes. His Words in Genesis 17:12; Romans 2:28,29; Galatians 3:28,29; Ephesians 2:14-16; Colossians 3:10,11.

To which the "arguments of mere men" give assent.

 

[DavidPT]

If you really think that God will redeem the citizens of the State of Israel, who are 50% atheists and the rest a mish-mash of Judaism, LBGT and Muslim, then you have a very wrong belief of the teachings of Jesus.
The New Testament sequence is plain: the Jews had the opportunity to keep the Kingdom, but they rejected and killed Jesus. The parable of the Landowner, Matthew 21:33-43, is just what happened then and the result is the Kingdom was taken from them.
It now belongs to the nation [peoples] who bear the proper fruit; that is: every faithful, born again Christian from every tribe, race, nation and language. Revelation 5:9-10

It is total unbiblical nonsense to say that the Jews have any kind of special place with God. Many prophesies tell of their Judgement and virtual demise.

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?


The logic is this. Whomever is meant here by Israel, this same Israel possessed the kingdom at some point, then lost possession at some point, and at some point in the future, the same Israel meant here, the kingdom will be restored to them. Good luck making Israel meaning the church here. That would be saying the church needs the kingdom restored to them in the future, because, though they were once in possession of it, they lost possession of it, thus need it restored to them again. You do understand what 'restore again' means in general, right?

 

[jgr]

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?


The logic is this. Whomever is meant here by Israel, this same Israel possessed the kingdom at some point, then lost possession at some point, and at some point in the future, the same Israel meant here, the kingdom will be restored to them. Good luck making Israel meaning the church here. That would be saying the church needs the kingdom restored to them in the future, because, though they were once in possession of it, they lost possession of it, thus need it restored to them again. You do understand what 'restore again' means in general, right?

The question and Jesus' response:

Acts 1
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

The times and seasons are associated with the day of the Lord, which is the end of all things temporal.

1 Thessalonians 5
1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

2 Peter 3
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.


There's no implication of a restored Israelitish kingdom.

 

[DavidPT]

The question and Jesus' response:

Acts 1
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

The times and seasons are associated with the day of the Lord, which is the end of all things temporal.

1 Thessalonians 5
1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

2 Peter 3
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.


There's no implication of a restored Israelitish kingdom.

I'm in full agreement that Acts 1:7, like you clearly showed, is connected with those other passages you provided. But still, whatever Israel is meant in Acts 1, it needs the kingdom restored to it again. How can the church mean Israel in that case?

 

[jgr]

I'm in full agreement that Acts 1:7, like you clearly showed, is connected with those other passages you provided. But still, whatever Israel is meant in Acts 1, it needs the kingdom restored to it again. How can the church mean Israel in that case?

Christ's answer does not reference an Israelitish kingdom. The associated verses which interpret His answer do not reference an Israelitish kingdom. His disciples did not inquire further about an Israelitish kingdom. There is no further New Testament reference after this to an Israelitish kingdom.

An Israelitish kingdom has no discernible further relevance.

 

[keras]

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?


The logic is this. Whomever is meant here by Israel, this same Israel possessed the kingdom at some point, then lost possession at some point, and at some point in the future, the same Israel meant here, the kingdom will be restored to them. Good luck making Israel meaning the church here. That would be saying the church needs the kingdom restored to them in the future, because, though they were once in possession of it, they lost possession of it, thus need it restored to them again. You do understand what 'restore again' means in general, right?

The question of who is Israel, is a difficult one. Christians are Israelites by faith, Galatians 3:26-29
jgr is correct in that genetically, we are all one people. But Amos 9:9 makes it clear that God knows who all the true Israelites are.
Remember that the House of Judah and the House of Israel separated soon after King Solomon. They have not yet rejoined; proved by the blessings promised in Ezekiel 37, remain unfulfilled.

So Israel is not the Church, but all of God's faithful people; every born again Christian, from every tribe, race, nation and language, are the true church and the true Israel. Galatians 6:14-16, Revelation 5:9-10
THEY; WE, are the inheritors of the holy Land, Ephesians 3:6, and of the Kingdom. Luke 12:32

 

[Choose Wisely]

I call myself a New Zealander, the majority of the people who inhabit the State of Israel call themselves Jews. Genetically, there is no difference between us both, because neither the 'Jews' or I can prove our ancestry back to Jacob.
Other posters here have shown you that in God's eyes, His people are those who have faith in Him, the rest are all the godless masses.

Well, if you can't figure out who is from the 12 tribes how can we possibly expect God to be able to do it.

Oh ye of little faith...........................

 

[keras]

Well, if you can't figure out who is from the 12 tribes how can we possibly expect God to be able to do it.

Oh ye of little faith...........................

God will do it, He knows who His people are; Amos 9:9 He will assign His Christian people to the tribe most suited to each individuals characteristics. He will assign some to be His Levites; Isaiah 66:21 and some to be His priests and co-rulers; Revelation 5:9-10
O ye of little Bible knowledge!

 

[Biblewriter]

Your doctrine dies without it.

.Have you decided that being a "Jew" has nothing to do with genealogy?

.

When did I, in speaking for myself, say anything about "Jews." I have quoted historical writers who used this term. But I do not use it, because scripture says nothing about an end time program for "Jews." Scripture speaks of end time programs for Judah, Ephraim, and the twelve tribes individually, and the descendants of several individuals, as well as Judea and the land of Israel, and Jerusalem and Samaria. But it says nothing about an end time program for the "Jews."

 

[Biblewriter]

Yes. His Words in Genesis 17:12; Romans 2:28,29; Galatians 3:28,29; Ephesians 2:14-16; Colossians 3:10,11.

To which the "arguments of mere men" give assent.

Scripture speaks of end time programs for Judah, Ephraim, the twelve tribes individually, and the descendants of several individuals, as well as Judea and the land of Israel, and Jerusalem and Samaria. All of these are explicitly stated, and no amount of argument or reasoning can negate that unquestionable fact.

 

[BABerean2]

But it says nothing about an end time program for the "Jews."

If you made the statement above in a meeting of most Dispensationalists, they would laugh, and or scorn you out of the place.

They would most probably also call you are "liar", which is a word you have been known to use against those who do not agree with your Two Peoples of God doctrine.

Your other statement about individual tribes disagrees completely with your recent claim that you do not promote "genealogies", as found in Titus 3:9.
If you claim not to promote "genealogies" and then turn around and promote future prophecies about individual tribes of Israel, you must be playing word games in which only you know the rules of the game.

.

 

[Choose Wisely]

If you made the statement above in a meeting of most Dispensationalists, they would laugh, and or scorn you out of the place.

They would most probably also call you are "liar", which is a word you have been known to use against those who do not agree with your Two Peoples of God doctrine.

Your other statement about individual tribes disagrees completely with your recent claim that you do not promote "genealogies", as found in Titus 3:9.
If you claim not to promote "genealogies" and then turn around and promote future prophecies about individual tribes of Israel, you must be playing word games in which only you know the rules of the game.

.

Genealogies were extremely important at one time. That's because they needed to know the lineage of a person so they could help identify if they were the Messiah. Paul was saying that there is no need to waste time keeping up with these genealogies as they already know who the Messiah is.

 

[Biblewriter]

If you made the statement above in a meeting of most Dispensationalists, they would laugh, and or scorn you out of the place.

They would most probably also call you are "liar", which is a word you have been known to use against those who do not agree with your Two Peoples of God doctrine.

Your other statement about individual tribes disagrees completely with your recent claim that you do not promote "genealogies", as found in Titus 3:9.
If you claim not to promote "genealogies" and then turn around and promote future prophecies about individual tribes of Israel, you must be playing word games in which only you know the rules of the game.

.

Genealogies are insignificant when the determination is being made by the God of heaven. But, as to what Dispensationalists do or do not believe, you did not learn much when you called yourself a dispensationalist.