One of the most controversial issues, is the DAY OF WORSHIP

[mmksparbud]

I already posted Luke 16:16 which you tried to invalidate with verse 17. Indeed you or Luke are confused.

Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

So you are saying that John is confused???

The law of God is not the same as the laws and ordinances of Moses. Again---and again --the 10 commandments were written on stone by God and kept in the Ark. The laws and ordinances were the sacrificial laws, written by Moses, as dictated by God, and written on scrolls, kept outside the Ark and were nailed to the cross.

Mat_5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat_15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mat_19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat_22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Mar_7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Joh_14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh_14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Joh_15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
Act_1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
1Co_7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
1Jn_2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn_2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn_3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn_3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
1Jn_5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn_5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
Rev_12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev_14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev_22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

 

[ace of hearts]

That’s exactly what you are claiming.

Teaching disobedience to God’s law is teaching lawlessness.

The burden is still on you to prove that Christ & the Apostles taught disobedience to God’s law. Prove it.

No the Apostles didn't teach disobedience. Neither did they teach obligation to the law.

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

 

[ace of hearts]

Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

This appears to be a denial the covenant of law with Israel isn't enforce like verse 16 says. Jeremiah says this would happen.

So you are saying that John is confused???

Where do you get this idea from my post? Are you skimming or reading my posts?

The law of God is not the same as the laws and ordinances of Moses. Again---and again --the 10 commandments were written on stone by God and kept in the Ark. The laws and ordinances were the sacrificial laws, written by Moses, as dictated by God, and written on scrolls, kept outside the Ark and were nailed to the cross.

Sorry but "the law" and "the law of Moses" are one and the same thing. This is what Paul calls the law in Romans.

Mat_5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

And what does Jesus say following that statement? Doesn't He show how they broke those commandments? What Jesus says in those verses changes the meaning of those commandments beyond the literal physical (carnal) aspects. Effectively changing the legal obligations of law.

Mat_15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

What exactly is vain worship? Do you really think worshiping God on Sunday is against the law? No where is Worship commanded on the the weekly sabbath. Church attendance isn't proof of keeping the sabbath or even the law.

Mat_19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Yes and if you only think about this selective statement without the whole story you have a point. This statement as used by you by passes the need of Jesus work of atonement. After all all you have to do is keep the commandments. Even the OT says you don't.

Mat_22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Mar_7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Nothing different from Mat 15:9. So the same comments apply.

Joh_14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Keep Who's commandments? Jesus gave a new commandment.

Joh_14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Do you love Jesus or something else?

Joh_15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

This shows because of comparison of two sets of commandments, Jesus didn't issue the famous 10. Jesus didn't say He kept His commandments. Jesus clearly says He kept His Father's commandments. What commandments are evidenced that Jesus kept? Isn't it the law (all the requirements of a Jew found in the Book of the Law)? Your evidence that Jesus kept something else is...

Act_1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

Which must be different from the law which came by Moses. They already had that as Jews.

1Co_7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Just what are the commandments of God as found in the New Covenant? Jeremiah says they'll be something different from the covenant law.

1Jn_2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn_2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn_3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn_3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
1Jn_5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn_5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
Rev_12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev_14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev_22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

There are three different things in the above passages -

1. You think anywhere the word "commandment(s)" appears it's only and always a reference to the famus 10.
   
2. You have your pronouns mixed up in reference to which member of the God head are doing in these verses, especially the 1st John references.
   
3. and the commandments of God in the New Covenant (NT) are: 1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

 

[ace of hearts]

That’s exactly what you are claiming.

Teaching disobedience to God’s law is teaching lawlessness.

The burden is still on you to prove that Christ & the Apostles taught disobedience to God’s law. Prove it.

Where? Please quote me.

 

[ace of hearts]

More Bible - less creative writing please. You are dividing the members of the Trinity against themselves... that idea does not work.

John 1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

Clearly that is Jesus

Col 1 - 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

Clearly that is Jesus


And Heb 8:6-10 says it is Jesus speaking the Sabbath commandment at Sinai

In Genesis 1 the term for God is plural - it is all the Trinity taking action in creation. You cannot single out one of them and add the nonsensical "not the Creator" because such divisions are not supportable in scripture.

So Rev 4 and 5 isn't the Bible? Get real.

John 1 doesn't teach Jesus is the Creator. Rev 4 and 5 also the words of John show God the Father is the Creator. Since I believe God and the Bible are consistent you have the two entities of John 1 mixed together as one. No I'm not saying Jesus isn't God. I didn't single them out out. John does. And if John, Matthew and Luke are accurate in their quotes of Jesus, He (Jesus) separates the entities of the God head as distinct separate Beings. Jesus didn't say pray to Me. Jesus didn't claim to be His Father. Jesus said God the Father actually turned His back on Jesus while on the cross. Jesus identified 3 different part of the Trinity in John 14:26 and 15:26.

Hebrews 8 isn't Jesus saying anything, much less at Sinai in which Jesus didn't appear per Gal 3:19.

I agree that 'elohiym is plural. Your inference is that only Jesus, one member of the trinity is the creator. That isn't correct as Rev 4 and 5 shows. I'm not going to argue what part each of the trinity did in creation. You have things mixed up because you've got your pronouns and Trinity members miss assigned.

 

[BobRyan]

Please note Rev 4:2,3, 11 and 5:5, 6 and 7. The Creator of heaven and earth isn't Jesus, the slain Lamb.
.

More Bible - less creative writing please. You are dividing the members of the Trinity against themselves... that idea does not work.

John 1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

Clearly that is Jesus

Col 1 - 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

Clearly that is Jesus


And Heb 8:6-10 says it is Jesus speaking the Sabbath commandment at Sinai

In Genesis 1 the term for God is plural - it is all the Trinity taking action in creation. You cannot single out one of them and add the nonsensical "not the Creator" because such divisions are not supportable in scripture.

So Rev 4 and 5 isn't the Bible? Get real.

It is the Bible but you don't quote it saying "The Creator of heaven and earth isn't Jesus" you merely quote "you" then slap on reference text that does not say it.

By contrast I gave you the Bible texts showing that Jesus is in fact the Creator not just the Father as the Creator or just the Holy Spirit.

[/quote]John 1 doesn't teach Jesus is the Creator. [/quote]

Until you read it

John 1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

No I'm not saying Jesus isn't God.

John says "ALL things came into being THROUGH Him"

And Col 1
Col 1 - 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

Clearly that is Jesus "BY HIM all things were CREATED" -- the very thing you claim is impossible.

Jesus didn't say pray to Me. Jesus didn't claim to be His Father.

Both-and not Either-or.

Both Jesus and the Father are in the Godhead as is the Holy Spirit and ALL of them regarded as "Creator" -- in the Christian monotheistic model.

Out of curiosity why do you feel you must argue against the text of John 1 and Col 1 - in your response to the "Day of worship" topic?

"Christ is LORD of the Sabbath" Mark 2:28 is that what is a challenge for your position?

 

[BobRyan]

Which must be different from the law which came by Moses. They already had that as Jews.Just what are the commandments of God as found in the New Covenant? Jeremiah says they'll be something different from the covenant law.There are three different things in the above passages -

1. You think anywhere the word "commandment(s)" appears it's only and always a reference to the famus 10.
   
2. You have your pronouns mixed up in reference to which member of the God head are doing in these verses, especially the 1st John references.
   
3. and the commandments of God in the New Covenant (NT) are: 1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Interesting creative writing but not exegesis -- not the Bible.

Heb 8:6-10 and Jeremiah 31:31-33 make it clear that the NEW Covenant has the "Law of God" written on the heart. And that it is the LAW known to Jeremiah and his readers (that would be "exegesis") - is written on the heart and mind. And all Bible scholars admit they knew about the TEN commandments in Ex 20 and that ONLY the TEN were kept inside the ark. ONLY the Ten written by God at Sinai - and that was Christ according to Hebrews 8.

You have avoided this key detail a number of times.

Matt 19 Jesus said "KEEP the Commandments" and is asked "WHICH ONES?" -- you have suggested that He should then quote 1 John 3:23 - which He does not. In Matt 19 He quotes from the "TEN" just like Paul does in Romans 13. Your argument is "with the text" in each case.

 

[mmksparbud]

This appears to be a denial the covenant of law with Israel isn't enforce like verse 16 says. Jeremiah says this would happen.

You keep making statements that sound like you are denying what the scripture says. It is clear. n You may not like it, but it is what it says. You are sounding very confused.
Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Where do you get this idea from my post? Are you skimming or reading my posts?

I am reading them, You keep claiming that the writers of the scriptures are confused---you seem to refuse to believe what the scriptures say.

Sorry but "the law" and "the law of Moses" are one and the same thing. This is what Paul calls the law in Romans.

You saying that does not make it so. Apparently, God didn't think so either. The 10 are written by God's own hand, the Levitical laws were written by the hand of Moses, the 10 were kept inside the Ark, the Levitical laws were kept outside the Ark, the 10 were written on stone, the ordinances were written on paper. The 10 are permanent, the ordinances were replaced by the Sacrificial Lamb. Jesus replace the Levitical laws---that is what Paul and all the writers teach when their writings are not read through the lens of man's own non-biblical theories.

And what does Jesus say following that statement? Doesn't He show how they broke those commandments? What Jesus says in those verses changes the meaning of those commandments beyond the literal physical (carnal) aspects. Effectively changing the legal obligations of law.

The whole statement is to be taken in its entirety. There is nothing here that "shows how they broke those commandments."

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

It certainly wouldn't take much to exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees for they were self-righteous!

What exactly is vain worship? Do you really think worshiping God on Sunday is against the law? No where is Worship commanded on the the weekly sabbath. Church attendance isn't proof of keeping the sabbath or even the law.

in vain

DEFINITION

1. without success or a result.
   "they waited in vain for a response"
   
2. Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
   Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
   Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
   Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
   
   The word "holy" :
   
   
   
   
   
   קֹדֶשׁ qo-desh Special 6944 A person, item, time or place that has the quality of being unique; Separated from the rest for a special purpose.
   Ancient Hebrew Dictionary - 6501 to 7000
   
   Church attendance gets you nothing, keeping the Sabbath gets you nothing---we are saved by grace. We keep the 10 out of love for God, out of obedience to His Sacred word. As they say--they are 10 commandments, not suggestions. And there are 10--not 9.
   
   Jesus went to the Temple every Sabbath, so did the disciples before and after the resurrection.

What do you think they went to the temple for? Hint: It wasn't for potluck followed by football.

This shows because of comparison of two sets of commandments, Jesus didn't issue the famous 10. Jesus didn't say He kept His commandments. Jesus clearly says He kept His Father's commandments. What commandments are evidenced that Jesus kept? Isn't it the law (all the requirements of a Jew found in the Book of the Law)? Your evidence that Jesus kept something else is...

You are going to have to explain what you mean by 2 sets of commandments. There was only 1 set in the Ark, they were written by the Hand of God--Jesus was at Mt Zion. Jesus is the OT, Jesus pointed to God through the NT. Jesus did not say--Pray to Him---He said to Pray "Our Father."

Jesus was a Jew, He kept all the Jewish laws and all the feasts until His death, He kept both the sacrificial laws and the 10. At His death he fulfilled all the sacrificial laws.

Just what are the commandments of God as found in the New Covenant? Jeremiah says they'll be something different from the covenant law.

Jeremiah has 52 chapters---Please state chapter and verse that you are referring to. The old covenant was through the sacrificial, Levitical laws---the new covenant is through the Sacrificial Lamb Himself. Again--the 10 and the ordinances are not the same.

​

There are three different things in the above passages -

1. You think anywhere the word "commandment(s)" appears it's only and always a reference to the famus 10.
   
2. You have your pronouns mixed up in reference to which member of the God head are doing in these verses, especially the 1st John references.
   
3. and the commandments of God in the New Covenant (NT) are: 1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


In Matt. 22:37 Jesus is referencing
Deu 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Deu 6:6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Deu 6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
Deu 6:8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
Deu 6:9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.

The first 4 commandments are describing our duty to God, the last 6 is our duty to man. To love God and man is to keep the 10.
The 10 were the commandments, the law of Moses was the ordinances.

Eph_2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Col_2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col_2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
Heb_9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
Heb_9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

 

[Soyeong]

I've been told the sabbath is optional, and just a day of rest from work. I took his word by faith. Then I hear different perspectives I can't figure out which one is true. The Bible doesn't seem to support Sabbath-keeping in the new covenant from when I read.

Where can I find an undeniable fact that it's either optional or that we are meant to still keep it? I am still confused on this controversy, and on top of that even if the 7th day is the day of worship there are literally no churches around me that even worship on the 7th day. And if its not even a big deal, I have no problem worshipping on Sunday.

Hello,

Sin is defined as the transgression of God's Law (1 John 3:4) and God Law says to keep the Sabbath holy, so it is therefore a sin to break the Sabbath and God's commands are not optional. On the other hand, man's commands are optional. For example, God gave no command to fast twice a week, but in the 1st century that had become a common practice, and people were passing judgement on those who were not fasting, so that would be optional. According to Deuteronomy 4:2, it is a sin to add to or subtract from God's Law, so it is committing a sin for someone to say that the Sabbath is optional.

The Israelites had daily prayers and offerings, so there is nothing wrong with worshiping God on every day of the week, but that didn't stop them from also obeying God's command to keep the Sabbath holy. In Mark 7:6-13, Jesus criticized the Pharisees as being hypocrites for setting aside the commands of God in order to establish their own traditions, so it would be wise for use to avoid coming under the same criticism by hypocritically setting aside God's command to keep the Sabbath holy in order to establish our own tradition of Sunday worship.

The disciples were Jews who grew up keeping the Sabbath, so they did not need to be taught to keep it and there was never a time when their week was not based around keeping the Sabbath. We shouldn't even need anything to be repeated in the NT in order for us to know that we should still obey God.

Jesus was sinless, so he lived in perfect obedience to the Mosaic Law, which means that he would have still taught full obedience to it by example even if he had said nothing, including keeping the Sabbath throughout his ministry, and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22), to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:3-6), and to be imitators of him (1 Corinthians 11:1). Furthermore, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent from our sins for the Kingdom of God is at hand (Matthew 4:17, 23) and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is an integral part of the Gospel message, including repenting from breaking the Sabbath. In addition, Jesus also taught how to keep the Sabbath through his interactions with the Pharisees on the topic, such as in Matthew 12:1-13.

In Acts 15:21, the expectation was that Gentiles would continue to learn about how to obey Moses by hearing him taught every Sabbath in the synagogues. In Colossians 2:16-23, they were keeping God's holy days in obedience to God's commands in accordance with what Christ taught by word and by example, they were being judged by those teaching human precepts and traditions, self-made religion, asceticism, and severity to the body, and Paul was writing to encourage them not to let any man judge them and keep them from obeying God. In 1 Peter 1:13-16, we are told to have a holy conduct for God is holy, which is a quote from Leviticus where God was giving instructions for how to have a holy conduct, which straightforwardly includes keeping God's Sabbaths holy (Leviticus 19:2-3).

The Sabbath is a precious gift from God give to His people for our own good in order to bless us, so even if we weren't commanded to keep it, then we should seek out the privilege and the delight of getting to keep it.

 

[bekkilyn]

Under the New Covenant, the sabbath isn't about observing a day of the week, but about a PERSON.

Jesus Christ.

Matthew 11:28-30

 

[BobRyan]

Under the New Covenant, the sabbath isn't about observing a day of the week, but about a PERSON.

Interesting as creative writing.
Matthew 11:28-30 says nothing about deleting or replacing one of the Ten Commandments.

One cannot oppose the Word (Jesus Christ) with the Person (Jesus Christ) -- it makes no sense to do it.

Matt 5:18-29 "
17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Jesus Christ.

 

[Soyeong]

Under the New Covenant, the sabbath isn't about observing a day of the week, but about a PERSON.

Jesus Christ.

Matthew 11:28-30

The goal of a disciple was to come under a rabbi's yoke and learn from them how to obey the Torah by memorizing their teachings, by learning how to think and act like them, and by essentially becoming an imitation of them where if we've seen them, then we've seen the one who sent them. We see this line of thought expressed in places like 1 Peter 2:21-22, where we are told to follow Christ's example, in 1 John 2:3-6, where we are told that those who are in Christ ought to walk in the same way he walked, in 1 Corinthians 11:1, where we are told to be imitators of him, and in the Great Commission, where Jesus to go out and make their own disciples teaching them everything that he had taught them.

So in Matthew 11:28-30, Jesus was inviting people to become his disciples and to learn from him how to obey the Torah. By saying that we would find rest for our souls, he was referencing Jeremiah 6:16-19, where the Torah is described as the good way where we will find rest for our souls. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the Torah, the rest for our souls comes from having faith in God to guide us in how to rightly live, not from taking a break from God's guidance.

 

[Soyeong]

It might answer your question that there are no churches near you that keep the Jewish sabbath. Sunday worship for Christians has been the tradition since the first century. Pliny, writing to Trajan in 112 AD, described the Christians as "meeting on a certain day of the week before dawn" to worship. While he does not mention what day, it is not a sabbath tradition to meet before dawn. Sunday worship was so firmly established that at the Council of Nicea Constantine ordered that all businesses be closed on Sunday to allow Christians to worship. Constantine did not establish Sunday worship, but protected it.

The idea that Christians are required to keep the Jewish sabbath is only recent. That is the reason you don't find churches meeting on Saturday. It is universally accepted that Christians meet on Sunday.

In Leviticus 23:2-3, it is God's Sabbath, not the Jewish Sabbath, so it is part of God's instructions to His followers for how to walk in His ways, not instructions for how to live as a Jew. When God has command His people to keep His Sabbath holy and everyone else were to say that we can worship on Sunday instead, then which one has the higher authority, which one is correct, and which one should we follow?

Romans 3:4 Not at all! Let God be true, and every human being a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.”

 

[Soyeong]

Isn't it evident, the Seventh Day Adventists are the only ones celebrating the Lord's day on Saturday.

The Jews also observe the 7th day but they always have.

You say yourself, "there are literally no churches around me that even worship on the 7th day."

When people get tied up with these types of questions, they become BOUND by Legalism, which becomes a Religion unto itself.

Here is Legalism, according to Jesus.

John 7:22,23
22) Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers, and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.
23) If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?

They were going about breaking the Law, in order to keep the law.

Legalism is placing man's traditions above God's Law, so people get bound to legalism when tell people not to obey it.

A number of God's laws appear to conflict with each other, such as what happened when someone wanted to obey the command to rest on the Sabbath and it fell on the 8th day. However, it was not the case that they were forced to sin by breaking one of the two commands no matter what they chose to do, but that one of the commands was never intended to prevent the other from being obeyed. This is why priests were held innocent for performing their duties on the Sabbath or why David and his men were held innocent for eating the shewbread (Matthew 12:1-8).

The Pharsaws saw that healing was work and the it was unlawful to do work on the Sabbath, so they reasoned that it was therefore unlawful to heal on the Sabbath. However, we are also commanded to love our neighbor and it would not be loving our neighbor to refuse to heal them. In Matthew 22:36-40, Jesus summarized the Law as being about how to love God and our neighbor and said that all of the other commands hang on those two, so they are all intended to be examples of what it looks like to love God and our neighbor, and were not intended to be used as an excuse to avoid obeying the greatest two commands, which is why Jesus ruled that it was lawful to heal on the Sabbath.

 

[bekkilyn]

Interesting as creative writing.
Matthew 11:28-30 says nothing about deleting or replacing one of the Ten Commandments.

One cannot oppose the Word (Jesus Christ) with the Person (Jesus Christ) -- it makes no sense to do it.

Matt 5:18-29 "
17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Jesus Christ.

Matthew 11:28-30 says nothing about deleting or replacing the fourth commandment because Jesus is who the ceremonial observance of the fourth commandment was always pointing to, just like much of the rest of Jewish scripture, i.e. The Law and the Prophets. Observing a particular day of the week was an old covenant shadow observance and Jesus Christ is its fulfillment.

JESUS is who gives us rest, not a day of the week. We don't worship days of the week and a day, no matter what day it is, has no power and cannot give us anything. It is a false god and it is idolatry to make a day of the week central to our faith.

 

[bekkilyn]

which is why Jesus ruled that it was lawful to heal on the Sabbath.

However, did Jesus rule that it was lawful to heal on the old covenant sabbath for money, that as long as we are putting in our eight hour workday for a paycheck in a medical field vs. some other professional field on Saturday, it is all A-OK?

 

[mmksparbud]

Matthew 11:28-30 says nothing about deleting or replacing the fourth commandment because Jesus is who the ceremonial observance of the fourth commandment was always pointing to, just like much of the rest of Jewish scripture, i.e. The Law and the Prophets. Observing a particular day of the week was an old covenant shadow observance and Jesus Christ is its fulfillment.

JESUS is who gives us rest, not a day of the week. We don't worship days of the week and a day, no matter what day it is, has no power and cannot give us anything. It is a false god and it is idolatry to make a day of the week central to our faith.

Jesus Christ is the old covenant fulfillment of the Levitical laws. It is He they were pointing to. What God has set aside as a Holy Day with His own hand, no man can change and Jesus never once said one word about changing it--it is one of the 10 commandments, not one of the Levitical laws. ​

 

[mmksparbud]

However, did Jesus rule that it was lawful to heal on the old covenant sabbath for money, that as long as we are putting in our eight hour workday for a paycheck in a medical field vs. some other professional field on Saturday, it is all A-OK?

Those wages are usually given to God. Legally, and for insurance purposes and taxes and such, they have to pay an employee. As a dialysis tech, what I earned on the Sabbath I gave to the church.

 

[bekkilyn]

Jesus Christ is the old covenant fulfillment of the Levitical laws. It is He they were pointing to. What God has set aside as a Holy Day with His own hand, no man can change and Jesus never once said one word about changing it--it is one of the 10 commandments, not one of the Levitical laws. ​

Splitting up God's law as you have done is a human tradition and not supported by scripture. Jesus fulfilled ALL of the law, not just the parts that some humans find to be inconvenient to follow. If you're going to be under the law, you need to observe ALL of it.

And if you're going to observe the old covenant version of sabbath where you are observing a day of the week, then hopefully you're not cooking or using electricity (fire) or leaving your home or picking up sticks or any other type of work that could be done, unless of course, you're healing someone in an emergency situation.

 

[Soyeong]

I'll try my best and answer your question.

Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them"

Well what does fulfill mean?

"To fulfill the Law" means "to cause God's will (as made known in the Law) to be obeyed as it should be" (NAS Greek Lexicon pleroo 2c3).

Irenaeus a late 2nd century Christian states that "The Lord did not abrogate the natural of the Law but he extended and fulfilled them"

"Extended?" you may say. "This is unscriptural!" However just looking at the rest of Matthew 5 easily confirms this.

"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, `Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment"

"You have heard that it was said, `Do not commit adultery.' But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart"

"You have heard that it was said, `Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you"

The law has been extended and fulfilled. We are now of the spirit rather than the flesh.

In Deuteronomy 4:2, it is a sin to add to or subtract from the Law, so if Jesus had done that, then he sinned as is therefore not our Savior, so yes it is unscriptural to extend the Law. Likewise, in Deuteronomy 13:4-5, the way that God instructed His people to determine that someone was a false prophet who was not speaking for Him was if they taught against obeying His Law.

Whenever Jesus quoted Scripture, he proceeded it by saying "it is written", but when he was quoting from what the people of his day had heard being taught about Scripture, he proceeded it by saying "you have heard that it was said" so the emphasis on the different from of communication is important. Jesus was sinning in violation of Deuteronomy 4:2 by speaking against or making changes to what was written, but rather he was fulfilling the Law by teaching how to correctly understand and obey it as it was originally intended. For example:

Matthew 5:43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’

While Scripture certainly instructs us to love our neighbor (Leviticus 19:18), it does not instruct us to hate our enemy, so that is what was wrong being taught about it. In Leviticus 19:17, it instructs us not to hate our brother, so again Jesus was not teaching anything brand new. The command not to look at a married woman with lust in our hearts is just the correct application of the 7th and 10th Commandments against adultery and coveting in our hearts. "An eye for an eye" is a perfectly good guideline for fair sentencing where the punishment is in proportion to the crime, but it was not intended to be used in personal matters in order to justify revenge.

Paul does this also.

Paul appeals to the Law in 1 Corinthians 9:8 but later goes on to say that God doesn't care about Oxen.

Paul was teaching about the purpose of why God gave that command, not extending the Law.

Paul also says in Colossians 2:17 that Law of the Jews was a shadow of the things to come.

In 1 Corinthians 5:6-8, Paul spoke in regard to how Passover foreshadowed of Christ by drawing the connection of him being our Passover Lamb and then concluded that we should therefore continue to keep the Feast. The OT is full of important foreshadows that are rich with teachings about Christ and about God's plan of redemption, and Christ brings full substance to these foreshadows so that we can fully see what God was teaching us through them, which make them all the more important to continue to obey in remembrance of Christ. It is the Law of God, not the Law of the Jews, and it is instructions to His followers for how to walk in His ways, not instructions for how to live as a Jew.

Jesus does the same in Matthew 7:18-19 by saying that nothing can defile him if it doesn't enter his heart. Jesus hasn't abolished the law but he has extended and fulfilled it.

In Matthew 15:2-3, Jesus was asked why his disciples didn't keep the traditions of the elders and he responded by asking them why they broke the commands of God for the sake of their tradition. He went on to say that for the sake of their tration they made void the word of God (Matthew 15:6), that they were worshiping God in vain because they were teaching as doctrine the commands of men (Matthew 15:8-9), and that they were hypocrites for setting aside the commands of God in order to establish their own traditions (Mark 7:6-13), so you should not interpret the next verses as Jesus turning around and even more hypocritically doing what he just finished criticizing the Pharisees for doing. Rather, he was simply sticking with the topic of conversation and his statement at the end of the conversation in Matthew 15:20 shows that he was still speaking against the man-made tradition of being made common by eating with unwashed hands and never jumped topics to speaking against obeying God.

Hebrews 7:12 says there's a change of priesthood and of the law.

If the way to act in accordance with God's righteousness changed when the New Covenant was made, then God's righteousness would not be eternal, but God's righteousness and all of His righteous laws are eternal (Psalm 119:142, 160). So it is not speaking about changes in the content of the law like it now being righteous to commit murder or sinful to help the poor. Rather, in context it is speaking about a transition of the priesthood, which would also require there to be a transition of the law in regard to it administration.

So what has this got to do with the Sabbath?

I can assure that NONE of the early christians kept a day Sabbath. To claim so is either out of naivety or a lie.

That is clearly false:

Luke 23:56 Then they returned and prepared spices and ointments. On the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment.

Here's a quote from Ingatius of Antioch. Head of the church of antioch and appointed by the position by the Apostle John. This is from one of his letters in the very early 2nd century.

"Those who have been brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath but living in observance of the Lord's day"

The Letter of Diognetus written in the first half of the 2nd century

"But as to their meticulousness concerning foods, their superstition regarding the Sabbaths, their boasting about circumcision.. as if He forbad us to do what is good on the Sabbath days, how is not this impious"

Justin Martyr an incredibly important church theologian and figure writing in the mid 2nd century

"The new law requires you to keep perpetual Sabbath, and you, because you are idle for one day, suppose you are godly, not understanding why this command was given to you"

Irenaeus who was also a very important defender of Orthodoxy writing in the late 2nd century

"And there will be no command to remain idle for one day of rest, to him who perpetually keeps sabbath, that is to say, who in the temple of God, which is man’s body, does service to God, and in every hour works righteousness."

Sin is defined as the transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4) and the Law says to keep the Sabbath, so why do you think that the fact that they sinned means that it is ok for you to sin?

However the early church also kept the Sabbath. Though they no longer did work on the 7th day, they kept the new version of the Sabbath or the perpetual sabbath. Instead of literally resting they now spiritually rested in Christ and gave everyday (which was now holy due to keeping the Sabbath) to the Lord.

Hebrews 4:4 is talking about 7th day Sabbath which contrasts the new Sabbath of Hebrews 4:8-9.

Hebrews 4:9 So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God,

This verse does not speak against the 7th day Sabbath, but rather it remains for the people of God.

So now we Christians keep everyday holy and worship God everyday too instead of just one. Resting in Christ everyday rather than in the flesh once a week. Keeping a perpetual Sabbath.

In order for there to be set apart there needs to be something that it is set apart from, so every day can't be holy or else no day is holy. If we did on every day what God wants us to do on the Sabbath, then we would do no work, but God also wants us to work. The Israelites had daily prayers and offerings, so there is nothing wrong with worshiping God on every day on the week, and in fact that is a good thing, but that didn't stop them from also obeying God's command to keep the Sabbath holy. We can't worship God by refusing to obey His commands. In Matthew 11:28-30 and Jeremiah 6:16-19, the Law is described as the good way where we will find rest for our souls, so the rest comes from having faith in God to guide us in how to rightly live, not from taking a break from following Him.