A flat earth and an earth-centered universe

[Tom 1]

Well Jesus "ascended into heaven" which would also be "above" the earth. God's presence is in the "holies of holies" and I'm sure there are other verses about God's presence - e.g. in Exodus, etc.

Yes, figurative expressions of things that we don't understand - an attempt to make them understandable. None of those limits God's presence to one place.

 

[JohnClay]

"And why does it only mention the heart when talking about thoughts or emotions and never your head (or brain). Aristotle literally believed people thought using their heart and I think the authors of the Bible thought that too."

A perfect example of metaphorical language.

Yes today we say that it is just a metaphorical heart but Aristotle thought it was literal and I think so would the authors.

 

[JohnClay]

Yes, figurative expressions of things that we don't understand - an attempt to make them understandable. None of those limits God's presence to one place.

With the "holy of holies" God would still be in other places, but he has a special presence there.

 

[JohnClay]

I think that you're looking at this too literally ... considering that we have a God Who transcends space and time ...

I'm saying that the authors seemed to assume the earth is flat and not a ball based on what many verses imply.
If God transcends time, that means he would have known about the flat earthers and how they seem to be basing their beliefs on the Bible. God could have included at least one verse about a spherical earth and heliocentrism but he knowingly didn't.

 

[JohnClay]

"Also there's:
Psalm 103:12
"as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us."

You don't recognize this as being metaphorical ?

The author clearly believed that the east and the west are very far apart. If they thought the earth was a ball they wouldn't have used that analogy if they had thought through it.

 

[HTacianas]

So it looks like the Bible is giving them the impression that the earth is flat.


But in reality it is the earth that is moving, not the sun.


They all are compatible to some degree with a flat earth and not at all with a spherical earth.

If someone wants to think the earth is flat there's not much I can do for them.

 

[A_Thinker]

If God transcends time, that means he would have known about the flat earthers and how they seem to be basing their beliefs on the Bible. God could have included at least one verse about a spherical earth and heliocentrism but he knowingly didn't.

Perhaps because it wasn't a concern of His ???

 

[JohnClay]

If someone wants to think the earth is flat there's not much I can do for them.

You could provide at least one Bible verse that seems to contradict the idea of a flat earth. The verses about the four corners of the earth imply a flat earth though it conflicts with the circle shape of a flat earth... unless:

 

[A_Thinker]

The author clearly believed that the east and the west are very far apart. If they thought the earth was a ball they wouldn't have used that analogy if they had thought through it.

The statement is metaphorical.

No matter when or where you are, ... east can be very close to west ... or very far away.

As I sit now ... if I turn in one direction, that's east ... and if I turn in the opposite direction ... that's west.

 

[JohnClay]

"If God transcends time, that means he would have known about the flat earthers and how they seem to be basing their beliefs on the Bible. God could have included at least one verse about a spherical earth and heliocentrism but he knowingly didn't."

Perhaps because it wasn't a concern of His ???

There is a verse about God not wanting anyone to perish. Flat earthers saying they have Biblical support could test people's faith and lead some to unbelief and hell. So God should care.

 

[A_Thinker]

You could provide at least one Bible verse that seems to contradict the idea of a flat earth.

Why ... when it has nothing to do with the message of the scriptures.

It would b like my dad including a description of the house ... as he attempted to guide me in moral matters ...

 

[JohnClay]

The statement is metaphorical.

No matter when or where you are, ... east can be very close to west ... or very far away.

As I sit now ... if I turn in one direction, that's east ... and if I turn in the opposite direction ... that's west.

"as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us."

If the east and west are close then it means God hasn't really "removed our transgressions".

 

[A_Thinker]

There is a verse about God not wanting anyone to perish. Flat earthers saying they have Biblical support could test people's faith and lead some to unbelief and hell. So God should care.

You seem to believe that whether the earth is flat or not would affect a person's morality.

Jesus said that men refuse to come to the Light ... because their deeds are evil ...

 

[A_Thinker]

"as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us."

If the east and west are close then it means God hasn't really "removed our transgressions".

You missed the lesson on the metaphorical use of language, yes ???

 

[JohnClay]

""as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us."
If the east and west are close then it means God hasn't really "removed our transgressions"."

You missed the lesson on the metaphorical use of language, yes ???

The metaphor (or analogy?) only works if both parts of the verse are about a big distance/removal.

 

[holo]

""as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us."
If the east and west are close then it means God hasn't really "removed our transgressions"."


The metaphor (or analogy?) only works if both parts of the verse are about a big distance/removal.

I think that verse says east and west for a reason. If it had said "as far as the north is from the south", that would be an actual distance. But the point is obviously to say that the sins are completely removed. Just like when the bible talks about sins being cast into the sea, it's obviously not talking about literally throwing sins into a literal sea.

 

[Tom 1]

With the "holy of holies" God would still be in other places, but he has a special presence there.

Yes, however that isn't really comparable to the idea of God literally sitting on a throne somewhere 'above' the earth.

 

[Tom 1]

"If God transcends time, that means he would have known about the flat earthers and how they seem to be basing their beliefs on the Bible. God could have included at least one verse about a spherical earth and heliocentrism but he knowingly didn't."


There is a verse about God not wanting anyone to perish. Flat earthers saying they have Biblical support could test people's faith and lead some to unbelief and hell. So God should care.

God is not responsible for human ignorance, that is our department.

 

[Tom 1]

"And why does it only mention the heart when talking about thoughts or emotions and never your head (or brain). Aristotle literally believed people thought using their heart and I think the authors of the Bible thought that too."

Yes today we say that it is just a metaphorical heart but Aristotle thought it was literal and I think so would the authors.

Yes - but it isn't. In ancient times people were not aware that the brain was involved in thinking, something that seems obvious to us now. Either way you look at it, it is metaphorical, whether the author believed that or not. I think the issue some people have is an idea that God just 'zapped' the bible into people's minds, an idea that goes against everything the bible tells us about how God interacts with man. There will come a time when God writes his 'laws in our hearts', and in some ways we do experience that now, but that again is not a literal description of a heavenly download of some sort of spiritual audio book.

 

[Tom 1]

You could provide at least one Bible verse that seems to contradict the idea of a flat earth. The verses about the four corners of the earth imply a flat earth though it conflicts with the circle shape of a flat earth... unless:

This is the problem with trying to tease out the odd verse to try and see if it's literal - do yourself a favour and save some time - just assume none of them are and then start looking into what the meaning of the passages is, what they meant in terms of the worldview at the time they were written, and what timeless message about the nature of God, mankind and existence they do still carry. You'll thank yourself for it in the long run.