A testimony about praying to Mary

[prodromos]

And in the bible the only i think time someone tried to talk with the dead, was Saul with Samuel, and that got ugly really fast.

It does prove your claim in post #4 to be false though

 

[NBB]

Your wall text is rather impenetrable.

But to focus on a few salient points, and to reiterate the above, we do not worship Our Lady. Somebody's inability (or unwillingness) to recognize that fact doesn't change the fact.

The Co-Redemptrix thing is technically true but it's a lot easier to misunderstand than it is to understand. The title refers to her role in the Incarnation. Without her assent, Our Lord would not have been born. She was not a womb with feet. She was an active participant in His Incarnation. She had a key, though minor, role in bringing redemption to the world.

As it turns out though, the Co-Redemptrix thing is not dogma. Pope John Paul II was probably the most Marian Pope in the last few centuries, possibly the most Marian ever. And if he wasn't quite willing to say that Our Lady as Co-Redemptrix is Church dogma, the odds of it ever becoming dogma seem pretty slim to me. This is speculative stuff and so Catholics are not bound to believe in it. They can if they want to though.

"Until"? Really, you're using that?

Our Lady's Immaculate Conception is bothersome to a lot of people. But it proceeds from a pretty sound chain of logic. The more I consider it, the more it makes perfect sense.

As to her Perpetual Virginity, the Early Church believed it. This includes people who were personally taught and trained by the apostles. Why do you think you know something more about her than they do?

And why the bible mention that Jesus had brothers? this is Mary sons and daughters with her husband.

 

[prodromos]

While evangelizing in Bulgaria, we came across an elderly lady (probably in her 70's) who took the 2 of us into her house to show us all of the icons on her bedroom wall that she had been praying to years! We explained every-thing to her, and she gladly and excitedly accepted Jesus as her Lord and Savior. I don't remember if she promised to throw out all of the icons, etc. She was of the Bulgarian Orthodox Christian faith, which is very similar (same?) as the Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, etc.

Why do Protestant Missionaries always seem to target other Christians, particularly those who have suffered under Communist persecution, instead of trying to win the atheists over?

 

[NBB]

It does prove your claim in post #4 to be false though

No, because if you believe that, you are saying that a witch can consult and make appear believers in christ which is unimaginable. Those practices are forbiden in the bible. Probably because mediums and such make contact with demons rather than actual people.

 

[GingerBeer]

The dead cannot hear us, is wrong to pray to them

Somebody ought to have told Jesus that. He seemed to think that Abraham could both hear and see in heaven. He told a story about a rich man and a poor man named Lazarus. In it "father Abraham" hears and sees he even speaks!

 

[Swan7]

I thought this was interesting and worth sharing.
And I hope it does not offend anyone!

As children of God, we MUST LOVE TRUTH more than our paradigms! We must be willing to allow ourselves to see the TRUTH and release “sacred cows”. Or we run the very real risk of BEING DECEIVED and FALLING AWAY!
I will provide a personal example of this and I apologize in advance to anyone that this upsets, but we are in the times that we must be BOLD in declaring God’s truth.
I was raised Catholic and remained in the faith through the age of 21. One day, God showed me that praying to the Virgin Mary dishonored Him and was a violation of The Ten Commandments, specifically “You shall have no other Gods before me”. If I had refused to hear God, think about and reflect on this correction from God
and not be open to His revelation, I would never have realized how wrong was the practice of praying to The Virgin Mary and reciting the Holy Mary Mother of God prayer. I was initially shocked by this Revelation,
but my LOVE for the truth and desire to honor God was stronger than 21 years of participating in this practice!
I share this as ENCOURAGEMENT to ALL of us to LOVE the truth more than ANYTHING else so we do NOT become deceived!
--- Dave Hodges of “The Common Sense Show”

Amen!! Truth in Love and Love in Truth!

 

[GingerBeer]

Why do Protestant Missionaries always seem to target other Christians, particularly those who have suffered under Communist persecution, instead of trying to win the atheists over?

Maybe because it is easier to target people who already know Jesus and believe in him. All they need to do is get the targets to accept Protestant ideas and reject their own "tradition".

 

[GingerBeer]

Great testimony, but as a die-hard Protestant, I'm a little biased against the whole "Mary" thing...

I reckon it works like an allergy. You become sensitised against Mary and then the mere mention of her almost creates Anaphylaxis! Quick get the epipen!!

 

[NBB]

Somebody ought to have told Jesus that. He seemed to think that Abraham could both hear and see in heaven. He told a story about a rich man and a poor man named Lazarus. In it "father Abraham" hears and saw he even spoke.

The bible forbids to consult the dead. If you ask to a dead person, to give you something or show you something are you not actually consulting the dead?

 

[NBB]

Maybe because it is easier to target people who already know Jesus and believe in him. All they need to do is get the targets to accept Protestant ideas and reject their own "tradition".

My mother and grandmother were both raised catholics, they became evangelicals my mother first and she then convinced my grandmother.

 

[NBB]

Somebody ought to have told Jesus that. He seemed to think that Abraham could both hear and see in heaven. He told a story about a rich man and a poor man named Lazarus. In it "father Abraham" hears and sees he even speaks!

The 3 people were on the other side, don't give abraham or dead believers God like features like listening of thousands of prayer at the same time, and say that he actually responds please. God bless.

 

[prodromos]

No, because if you believe that, you are saying that a witch can consult and make appear believers in christ which is unimaginable. Those practices are forbiden in the bible. Probably because mediums and such make contact with demons rather than actual people.

God's Word says it was Samuel.

 

[prodromos]

The bible forbids to consult the dead. If you ask to a dead person, to give you something or show you something are you not actually consulting the dead?

Orthodox and Catholics ask of the living to pray for us, joining their prayers to God with our own, since the prayers of a righteous man availeth much.

 

[TuxAme]

The dead cannot hear us, is wrong to pray to them, some people kneel before statues of them, this is not ok at all. Why kneel before a statue of someone if not to somehow worship there? the priests say nothing about people doing this... kneel only before God.

Hmm. You must be of the opinion that a demon spoke to king Saul rather than the prophet Samuel, despite Scripture suggesting that it was indeed Samuel. Or perhaps you believe that Jesus was speaking to demons rather than Moses and Elijah at His Transfiguration? Perhaps even that they were both schizophrenics and saw nothing at all?

Maybe you're also of the opinion that God was in error when He instructed the Israelites to craft everything related to (and including) the Ark of the Covenant?

 

[prodromos]

The 3 people were on the other side, don't give abraham or dead believers God like features like listening of thousands of prayer at the same time, and say that he actually responds please. God bless.

Whatever the Saints can do is only by the grace of God.

 

[TuxAme]

The bible forbids to consult the dead. If you ask to a dead person, to give you something or show you something are you not actually consulting the dead?

Asking the living dead (didn't Jesus say that He is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, implying that they are very much alive?) to pray for us is not the same as consulting them.

 

[TuxAme]

And why the bible mention that Jesus had brothers? this is Mary sons and daughters with her husband.

Because the Jewish word for brother was also used to describe those who were in the same tribe as oneself (and the apostles refer to themselves as our fathers, us as their sons, and each other as brothers despite not being related by blood).

Then there's the fact that Jesus wouldn't have had to entrust Mary to John's care if He had blood siblings. It would have been their duty to care for her.

 

[thecolorsblend]

And why the bible mention that Jesus had brothers? this is Mary sons and daughters with her husband.

There's a plenty of room for reasonable doubt... as this (a non-Catholic source) affirms.

In brief, there's not specifically an Aramaic word for "cousin". The word "brother" has a far wider meaning in ancient Aramaic than the modern English word "brother". Using that as a proof text that Our Lady had other children is kind of flimsy. The word could just as easily refer to step-brothers, cousins or brothers in the sense that you're thinking.

Not exactly what I'd call a slam dunk case... especially when the Early Church believed Our Lady remained a virgin her entire life. Again, why do you think you know better than they do?

 

[NBB]

Hmm. You must be of the opinion that a demon spoke to king Saul rather than the prophet Samuel, despite Scripture suggesting that it was indeed Samuel. Or perhaps you believe that Jesus was speaking to demons rather than Moses and Elijah at His Transfiguration? Perhaps even that they were both schizophrenics and saw nothing at all?

Maybe you're also of the opinion that God was in error when He instructed the Israelites to craft everything related to (and including) the Ark of the Covenant?

Something appeared for sure but we can't ask things to the dead... its not their Job to listen to our prayers. What harm is that the Pope to say to christians to ask to God or Jesus or the Holy spirit our prayers, but not people that passed away? Nowhere in the bible says we should do it, actually there is more things saying that we shouldn't do it.

 

[ripple the car]

There is actually archeological evidence of Marian veneration (in the forms of hymns and prayers for help to her) dating from the late 200's, if not earlier.

Sub tuum praesidium - Wikipedia