A testimony about praying to Mary

BCsenior

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I thought this was interesting and worth sharing.
And I hope it does not offend anyone!


As children of God, we MUST LOVE TRUTH more than our paradigms! We must be willing to allow ourselves to see the TRUTH and release “sacred cows”. Or we run the very real risk of BEING DECEIVED and FALLING AWAY!
I will provide a personal example of this and I apologize in advance to anyone that this upsets, but we are in the times that we must be BOLD in declaring God’s truth.
I was raised Catholic and remained in the faith through the age of 21. One day, God showed me that praying to the Virgin Mary dishonored Him and was a violation of The Ten Commandments, specifically “You shall have no other Gods before me”. If I had refused to hear God, think about and reflect on this correction from God
and not be open to His revelation, I would never have realized how wrong was the practice of praying to The Virgin Mary and reciting the Holy Mary Mother of God prayer. I was initially shocked by this Revelation,
but my LOVE for the truth and desire to honor God was stronger than 21 years of participating in this practice!
I share this as ENCOURAGEMENT to ALL of us to LOVE the truth more than ANYTHING else so we do NOT become deceived!
--- Dave Hodges of “The Common Sense Show”
 

thecolorsblend

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I was initially shocked by this Revelation
I'm shocked that someone can be Catholic for 21 years without realizing that Our Lady isn't God.

Then again, that could just be me.
 
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danielmears

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I thought this was interesting and worth sharing.
And I hope it does not offend anyone!

Personally I love Mary, she was a strong woman of faith who clearly understood how the word operates. When confronted by the angel she did not shy away but listened and then said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord, be it unto me according to thy word. Luke 1:38
As children of God, we MUST LOVE TRUTH more than our paradigms! We must be willing to allow ourselves to see the TRUTH and release “sacred cows”. Or we run the very real risk of BEING DECEIVED and FALLING AWAY!
I will provide a personal example of this and I apologize in advance to anyone that this upsets, but we are in the times that we must be BOLD in declaring God’s truth.
I was raised Catholic and remained in the faith through the age of 21. One day, God showed me that praying to the Virgin Mary dishonored Him and was a violation of The Ten Commandments, specifically “You shall have no other Gods before me”. If I had refused to hear God, think about and reflect on this correction from God
and not be open to His revelation, I would never have realized how wrong was the practice of praying to The Virgin Mary and reciting the Holy Mary Mother of God prayer. I was initially shocked by this Revelation,
but my LOVE for the truth and desire to honor God was stronger than 21 years of participating in this practice!
I share this as ENCOURAGEMENT to ALL of us to LOVE the truth more than ANYTHING else so we do NOT become deceived!
--- Dave Hodges of “The Common Sense Show”
 
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NBB

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The dead cannot hear us, is wrong to pray to them, some people kneel before statues of them, this is not ok at all. Why kneel before a statue of someone if not to somehow worship there? the priests say nothing about people doing this... kneel only before God.
 
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danielmears

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Of course going to the source now that you know the truth is the way, but I am certain Mary played a role in establishing Jesus spiritual roots. God chose her for a reason but God is in you too and you in God. Jesus prayed we too would, be one, as He and the Father are one so you do not have to pray afar off, God is with you, the kingdom is within. He knows the desires of your heart so ask!
 
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BCsenior

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While evangelizing in Bulgaria, we came across an elderly lady (probably in her 70's) who took the 2 of us into her house to show us all of the icons on her bedroom wall that she had been praying to years! We explained every-thing to her, and she gladly and excitedly accepted Jesus as her Lord and Savior. I don't remember if she promised to throw out all of the icons, etc. She was of the Bulgarian Orthodox Christian faith, which is very similar (same?) as the Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, etc.
 
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thecolorsblend

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The dead cannot hear us, is wrong to pray to them, some people kneel before statues of them, this is not ok at all. Why kneel before a statue of someone if not to somehow worship there? the priests say nothing about people doing this... kneel only before God.
Posture isn't a profession of something. I hug my fiancee all the time. I hug my brothers as well. I have a different intent and motive even though I'm still hugging.

I realize some Protestants think they can read the minds of others when they see them prostrate but (A) you don't have ESP and (B) there's no reason to doubt Catholics when we say we only worship God.

To dwell on (B) for a moment, I realize this next comment could be annoying to some. But hear me out. The names I see on this forum are just names to me. I don't really care what others think of me on any personal level. I have zero investment in creating some kind of inane "reputation" here. To me, all of you are just names that pop up on my screen.

On that basis, considering my abject disregard for the opinions of others, you need to understand that it's not worth my time to lie to you.

So when I say we Catholics don't worship anything or anybody but God, you should realize (A) we would know far better than you would and (B) it's absurd to think I would bother creating a lie to tell to somebody who, with all due respect, I don't care about.

But just to show you how seriously the Catholic Church takes these matters, the faithful are to genuflect before meeting, say, the Pope. When they do so, they're supposed to bend the left knee. This is a show of respect to men.

Meanwhile, the faithful are to genuflect before the tabernacle as they sit down in a pew at Mass. When they do so, they're supposed to bend the right knee. This is an act of worship of God. The right knee bends only for God.

It may all look the same to you. And if it does, that's not my problem. The intent here is visible. There are certain things a Catholic gives to men. But there are other things (such as worship) which are given only to God.

The Protestants' collective inability to distinguish one from the other is infamous, of course, but the distinction nevertheless exists.

We only worship God. And, again, I don't care enough about anybody on this forum to bother lying to them about that.
 
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Posture isn't a profession of something. I hug my fiancee all the time. I hug my brothers as well. I have a different intent and motive even though I'm still hugging.

I realize some Protestants think they can read the minds of others when they see them prostrate but (A) you don't have ESP and (B) there's no reason to doubt Catholics when we say we only worship God.

To dwell on (B) for a moment, I realize this next comment could be annoying to some. But hear me out. The names I see on this forum are just names to me. I don't really care what others think of me on any personal level. I have zero investment in creating some kind of inane "reputation" here. To me, all of you are just names that pop up on my screen.

On that basis, considering my abject disregard for the opinions of others, you need to understand that it's not worth my time to lie to you.

So when I say we Catholics don't worship anything or anybody but God, you should realize (A) we would know far better than you would and (B) it's absurd to think I would bother creating a lie to tell to somebody who, with all due respect, I don't care about.

But just to show you how seriously the Catholic Church takes these matters, the faithful are to genuflect before meeting, say, the Pope. When they do so, they're supposed to bend the left knee. This is a show of respect to men.

Meanwhile, the faithful are to genuflect before the tabernacle as they sit down in a pew at Mass. When they do so, they're supposed to bend the right knee. This is an act of worship of God. The right knee bends only for God.

It may all look the same to you. And if it does, that's not my problem. The intent here is visible. There are certain things a Catholic gives to men. But there are other things (such as worship) which are given only to God.

The Protestants' collective inability to distinguish one from the other is infamous, of course, but the distinction nevertheless exists.

We only worship God. And, again, I don't care enough about anybody on this forum to bother lying to them about that.

But why kneel before them? and make long parades carrying the statues of saints in the middle? people pray to them, venerate them, 'kiss the saint' thing...
 
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thecolorsblend

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Statues? That's veneration.

Again, veneration.

Indeed they do. I kiss my fiancee. Is that wrong too?

Anything you want, but the line between veneration and worship i think can get blurry there, the saints in the bible were all the believers faithful to God, not some appointed by some authority, so should i start praying to my mother? she is a good christian you know. And in the bible the only i think time someone tried to talk with the dead, was Saul with Samuel, and that got ugly really fast.
 
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thecolorsblend

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Anything you want, but the line there between veneration and worship i think can get blurry there,
I always found them crystal clear, myself.

should i start praying to my mother?
When saints are prayed to, their prayers and petitions requested. Sacred Scripture instructs us to pray for one another. There's substantially no difference between asking a saint to pray for you and asking someone in your ecclesial community to pray for you.

Or if there is a difference, it's that the departed is truly alive in ways we're not.

And in the bible the only i think time someone tried to talk with the dead, was Saul with Samuel, and that got ugly really fast.
Things that are different are not the same.
 
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BCsenior

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But why kneel before them? and make long parades carrying the statues of saints in the middle?
Yes, I witnessed a large parade in southern Spain with a huge float carrying Mary (on "Mary Day", if I remember correctly). I'll never forget how enthrawled the crowd was ... so full of admiration, etc. for her!
 
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I always found them crystal clear, myself.

When saints are prayed to, their prayers and petitions requested. Sacred Scripture instructs us to pray for one another. There's substantially no difference between asking a saint to pray for you and asking someone in your ecclesial community to pray for you.

Or if there is a difference, it's that the departed is truly alive in ways we're not.

Things that are different are not the same.

Ok, lets just say we don't agree much on this topic, God bless.
 
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thecolorsblend

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Ok, lets just say we don't agree much on this topic, God bless.
We can neither agree nor disagree because I'm not trying to persuade you, bro. Believe what you like.

Just don't imply that Catholics are necromancers again.
 
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We can neither agree nor disagree because I'm not trying to persuade you, bro. Believe what you like.

Just don't imply that Catholics are necromancers again.

Its just kneeling to statues seems a 'shady' thing to do as christian to me, and i believe we should pray to God/Jesus/Holy spirit only, not angels not dead people.
 
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thecolorsblend

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Its just kneeling to statues seems a 'shady' thing to do as christian to me, and i believe we should pray to God/Jesus/Holy spirit only, not angels not dead people.
You seem to be defining pray as an act of worship.

On that basis, I can understand your reluctance.

You're still wrong but I understand your reluctance.
 
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I thought this was interesting and worth sharing.
And I hope it does not offend anyone!


As children of God, we MUST LOVE TRUTH more than our paradigms! We must be willing to allow ourselves to see the TRUTH and release “sacred cows”. Or we run the very real risk of BEING DECEIVED and FALLING AWAY!
I will provide a personal example of this and I apologize in advance to anyone that this upsets, but we are in the times that we must be BOLD in declaring God’s truth.
I was raised Catholic and remained in the faith through the age of 21. One day, God showed me that praying to the Virgin Mary dishonored Him and was a violation of The Ten Commandments, specifically “You shall have no other Gods before me”. If I had refused to hear God, think about and reflect on this correction from God
and not be open to His revelation, I would never have realized how wrong was the practice of praying to The Virgin Mary and reciting the Holy Mary Mother of God prayer. I was initially shocked by this Revelation,
but my LOVE for the truth and desire to honor God was stronger than 21 years of participating in this practice!
I share this as ENCOURAGEMENT to ALL of us to LOVE the truth more than ANYTHING else so we do NOT become deceived!
--- Dave Hodges of “The Common Sense Show”
Maryology
When I was saved in college I read through the New Testament. It seemed completely different than Catholicism. One thing that struck me was where's all the stuff about Mary? Nowhere from Romans to Revelations is Mary every mentioned. And from the few times she is mentioned in the gospels and in Acts there's no doctrine teaching nor implying the Catholic Maryology dogma. The Catholic church makes a big deal about Mary. They practically made her into a goddess. The Bible doesn't make a big deal about her.

Mary's Sinlessness?

For example one Catholic doctrine of Mary was that she herself was born without original sin - nor did she even sin in her lifetime. This contrary to many verses like "No one is good but One, that is, God." Mark 10:18; "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Rom 3:22; "There is not a righteous man on earth who does what is right and never sins." Ecc 7:20 They based their doctrine not on the Bible but the reasoning that Jesus could not have been born sinless if his mother was a sinner. But in fact the Bible indicates that God has no problem inhabiting sinful vessels. For He lives in us, sinners justified by faith. Our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit - 1Cor 6:19But let's follow this Catholic line of thinking. Now if Mary was sinless, then her mother "logically" must also have been sinless, if we make the Catholic assumption that a sinner cannot bear a sinful person. But wait a minute - that means that Mary's grandmother, greatgrandmother and all the way back to Eve must have been sinless. And what about the fathers? Now granted that Jesus' father was God, but not so with Mary's father, grandfather, and so forth. So using catholic logic since the embryo is compose of sperm and egg, for it to be sinless both parents must be sinless - again all the way back to Adam. So the catholic line of thought would lead us to believe that sin in the line of Adam and Eve was never a problem to begin with as sin never entered the world.

Mary's Perpetual Virginity?

Most Catholics are ignorant of the fact that the Bible seems to indicate that Mary lost her virginity to Joseph after Jesus was born. Matthew 1:24,25"When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son." Joseph was commanded to take Mary as his wife. But Mary would not have been his wife if they had not consummated the marriage. For though it is true that the Jews had a betrothal period prior to consummation in which they were called husband and wife, it was presumed the two would become one flesh - that is, they would engage in sex. Notice that prior to Jesus being born Luke speaks of Joseph as being pledged to be married, "He went there to register with Mary, who was pledged to be married to him and was expecting a child." Luke 2:5 For they had yet to consummate the marriage. Notice how Jesus defines marriage in Mt 19:5 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'? But if they never had become one flesh - that is they never had sex - they were never legitimately married. Indeed why need Joseph even marry her at all? The prophecy the angel alludes to of a virgin giving birth could just as well fulfilled if she were unmarried altogether. But the command to get married incorporates in it a command to have sex. Therefore the “until” is to be interpreted in its normal sense, indicating at what point they started having sex. When do Catholics teach that Mary and Joseph become one flesh? They teach that they never became one flesh. And thus they were never actually married in a Biblical sense as Jesus taught.

In contrast to this here's what a Catholic theologian wrote to me:

It was because in Jewish culture this would have meant that Joseph acknowledged biological fatherhood over Jesus. Because he refused to do this he was saying in essence that he did not accept Jesus as his biological son though he would accept him as his legal son. By refusing to consummate his marriage with Mary he was in conformity with the Jewish Law. By not having intercourse with Mary before the birth of Jesus he is acknowledging in principle that he was also forbidden to have intercourse with her thereafter. A woman found to be with child that is not her husband’s is forbidden forever more to him and to the man who impregnated her. (In fact, a woman caught in adultery is likewise penalized.) Under Jewish law, because Mary was found to be with child before she had consummated her marriage to Joseph she was forever forbidden to him. He could keep her as his wife but he was not allowed intimate relations with her. Had Mary born any children after Jesus she would have been stoned to death under the Law. Had Joseph claimed those children to be biologically his, he would have been stoned to death also.That’s completely bogus! What Jewish Law was he in conformity with? There is no such law. At the least the Law indicates divorce in such circumstances (which is what Joseph had considered before the angel showed up), and at most the penalty was death. But under Jewish law the penalty CERTAINLY WAS NOT being forced to be married to the woman without ever being able to have sex. It’s a complete Catholic fabrication. And what is this foolishness about being stoned to death if she had other children!!! And not only that but Joseph being stone to death as well!! The Law of Moses says nothing of the kind.
And so also it was spoken of Jesus, "Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t his mother’s name Mary, and aren’t his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas? ? And His sisters, are they not all with us?" Matt 13:55,56

And so also the Catholic Church never teaches how at one time Mary though Jesus was crazy. "Then Jesus entered a house, and again a crowd gathered, so that he and his disciples were not even able to eat. When his familyheard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, 'He is out of his mind.'" Mark 3:20,21 Then if we continue on to verse 31 when they actually arrived it says: Then Jesus’ mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him. A crowd was sitting around him, and they told him, "Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you." "Who are my mother and my brothers?" he asked. Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, "Here are my mother and my brothers! Whoever does God’s will is my brother and sister and mother." Mark 3:31-35 Now we understand the sense of what Jesus meant. For at this point his mother and brothers were not doing the will of God in attempting to take him away from his ministry. And we see further evidence in John 7 that his brothers held him in contempt. This was kind of a rebuke, an insult to Mary who came to interfere with his mission. Who did Jesus say was his "mother" here? He looked away from Mary and look at those seated around him and viewed them as his mother instead. We can at least deduce from this that Jesus didn't make a big deal about his mother Mary. And certainly didn't make her into a goddess as the Catholic Church has done. And when it comes to incidents like this where she is not doing God's will she is less than no big deal. In view of her behavior here Christ wouldn't even acknowledge her as his mother until she repents.

Secondly when Jesus said, "Whoever does God’s will is my brother and sister and mother" this brings up the idea of members of a common household - an immediate family. This issue was intimacy with Jesus. I don't read this as saying "Whoever does God’s will is my second cousin twice removed on my father's side". I read this as one's immediate family, the members of whom grow up in a common household.

Blessed Among Women

One justification Catholics may give for their idolatrous veneration of Mary is the fact that she was "blessed" in bearing the Messiah.

Luke 1:41 "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!"
Luke 1:48 "From now on all generations will call me blessed."But Jesus said that lots of people are blessed, yet Catholics don't likewise worship them.Luke 6:20 Blessed are you poor
Luke 6:21 Blessed are you who hunger now,
Luke 6:21 Blessed are you who weep now
Luke 6:22 Blessed are you when men hate you
1Peter 1:14 If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you.But in contrast notice Jesus response to this idea of Mary's blessedness.While Jesus was saying these things, one of the women in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, "Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed." But He said, "On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it." Luke 11:27,28Thus in contrast to hearing and doing the Word of God, Jesus thought little of the blessedness of his mother bearing him - and so also his followers. For the New Testament authors speak very little of Mary.
Praying to Mary and consulting the dead

As I will mention further on, the occultic practice of the Catholic church to pray to dead people is contrary to the Bible. Praying to Mary - a dead woman - through their Rosary prayer is the primary example of this occultic practice. But also is the practice of consulting the dead. Deut 18:11 "Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead." Yet Catholic mediums claim to have had visions of Mary who spoke to them and instructed them to do such things as pray the Rosary and to build her a temple and also in accordance with their practice of necromancy they claim this dead woman foretells the future that the God will consecrate Russia to her. She is as the Catholic's goddess. And if they need guidance to find something they lost they will pray to Saint Anthony - the saint of lost things. Indeed the list of Catholic saints reads like a list of Chinese kitchen gods. Indeed the saints would have to be omnipresent gods if they were to hear all the catholics praying to them.

Catholics try to justify speaking to the dead saying that they are not dead, whereas they are actually physically dead. But since they are alive in spirit in the afterlife, therefore Catholics feel justified in praying to them. But besides violating the principle of Deut 18:11, there is no instruction or example in the New Testament of praying to dead saints. Some bring up the transfiguration incident. But Jesus is Lord of the dead and the living and thus it doesn't apply to him. Secondly consider the state they are spoken of being in. For dead saints are spoken as being asleep. If they are asleep, they are not listening to you. They don't have contact with what goes on here. Consider Luke 16 concerning how Jesus portrayed the afterlife in the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus. Did Lazarus have contact with the world? Could he hear people praying for him? No. He would have to be raised from the dead.

The Queen of Heaven?

Many Catholics refer to Mary as "the Queen of Heaven".

"She has been appointed by God to be the Queen of heaven and earth", Pius IX, 1854
Oh yes, the Bible does refer to the "Queen of Heaven". Mary worshippers are like the people Jeremiah spoke of saying, "The children gather wood, the fathers light the fire, and the women knead the dough and make cakes of bread for the Queen of Heaven. They pour out drink offerings to other gods to provoke me to anger." Jeremiah 7:18

Co-Redeemer?

Pope Benedict XV, in 1918 - "Mary suffered with Christ and nearly died with Him when He died, thus she may rightly be said to have redeemed the human race with Christ."

Pope Pius XI, in 1923 - "The virgin of sorrows shared the work of redemption with Jesus Christ."

Pope Leo XIII, in 1891 "No one can approach Christ except through His mother."

Bishop of Asti: 'the dogma of the singular privilege granted by the Divine Redeemer to His pure mother, the Co-redemptress of the world.'

Bishop of Gallipoli wrote, 'the human race, whom the Son of God, from her, redeemed; whom, together with Him, she herself co-redeemed.'

Pope John Paul II "Membership in the Militia means complete dedication to the Kingdom of God and to the salvation of souls through Mary Immaculate."

Pope Benedict XV: "One can justly say that with Christ, she herself redeemed mankind."

St. Germanus: "No one is saved but through Mary."

Pope Pius IX: "Our salvation is based upon the holy Virgin..."
 
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You seem to be defining pray as an act of worship.

On that basis, I can understand your reluctance.

You're still wrong but I understand your reluctance.

I say because i believe catholic church appointed saints or any dead believer, cannot hear us, or they don't are the 'secretaries' of God, to pass our prays to him, or either that they can grant us anything by their own power, people, humans can't listen to more than one person at a time, so i don't know how they hear all those prayers... sorry but seems like superstition.
 
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Maryology
When I was saved in college I read through the New Testament. It seemed completely different than Catholicism. One thing that struck me was where's all the stuff about Mary? Nowhere from Romans to Revelations is Mary every mentioned. And from the few times she is mentioned in the gospels and in Acts there's no doctrine teaching nor implying the Catholic Maryology dogma. The Catholic church makes a big deal about Mary. They practically made her into a goddess. The Bible doesn't make a big deal about her.

Mary's Sinlessness?

For example one Catholic doctrine of Mary was that she herself was born without original sin - nor did she even sin in her lifetime. This contrary to many verses like "No one is good but One, that is, God." Mark 10:18; "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Rom 3:22; "There is not a righteous man on earth who does what is right and never sins." Ecc 7:20 They based their doctrine not on the Bible but the reasoning that Jesus could not have been born sinless if his mother was a sinner. But in fact the Bible indicates that God has no problem inhabiting sinful vessels. For He lives in us, sinners justified by faith. Our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit - 1Cor 6:19But let's follow this Catholic line of thinking. Now if Mary was sinless, then her mother "logically" must also have been sinless, if we make the Catholic assumption that a sinner cannot bear a sinful person. But wait a minute - that means that Mary's grandmother, greatgrandmother and all the way back to Eve must have been sinless. And what about the fathers? Now granted that Jesus' father was God, but not so with Mary's father, grandfather, and so forth. So using catholic logic since the embryo is compose of sperm and egg, for it to be sinless both parents must be sinless - again all the way back to Adam. So the catholic line of thought would lead us to believe that sin in the line of Adam and Eve was never a problem to begin with as sin never entered the world.

Mary's Perpetual Virginity?

Most Catholics are ignorant of the fact that the Bible seems to indicate that Mary lost her virginity to Joseph after Jesus was born. Matthew 1:24,25"When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son." Joseph was commanded to take Mary as his wife. But Mary would not have been his wife if they had not consummated the marriage. For though it is true that the Jews had a betrothal period prior to consummation in which they were called husband and wife, it was presumed the two would become one flesh - that is, they would engage in sex. Notice that prior to Jesus being born Luke speaks of Joseph as being pledged to be married, "He went there to register with Mary, who was pledged to be married to him and was expecting a child." Luke 2:5 For they had yet to consummate the marriage. Notice how Jesus defines marriage in Mt 19:5 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'? But if they never had become one flesh - that is they never had sex - they were never legitimately married. Indeed why need Joseph even marry her at all? The prophecy the angel alludes to of a virgin giving birth could just as well fulfilled if she were unmarried altogether. But the command to get married incorporates in it a command to have sex. Therefore the “until” is to be interpreted in its normal sense, indicating at what point they started having sex. When do Catholics teach that Mary and Joseph become one flesh? They teach that they never became one flesh. And thus they were never actually married in a Biblical sense as Jesus taught.

In contrast to this here's what a Catholic theologian wrote to me:

It was because in Jewish culture this would have meant that Joseph acknowledged biological fatherhood over Jesus. Because he refused to do this he was saying in essence that he did not accept Jesus as his biological son though he would accept him as his legal son. By refusing to consummate his marriage with Mary he was in conformity with the Jewish Law. By not having intercourse with Mary before the birth of Jesus he is acknowledging in principle that he was also forbidden to have intercourse with her thereafter. A woman found to be with child that is not her husband’s is forbidden forever more to him and to the man who impregnated her. (In fact, a woman caught in adultery is likewise penalized.) Under Jewish law, because Mary was found to be with child before she had consummated her marriage to Joseph she was forever forbidden to him. He could keep her as his wife but he was not allowed intimate relations with her. Had Mary born any children after Jesus she would have been stoned to death under the Law. Had Joseph claimed those children to be biologically his, he would have been stoned to death also.That’s completely bogus! What Jewish Law was he in conformity with? There is no such law. At the least the Law indicates divorce in such circumstances (which is what Joseph had considered before the angel showed up), and at most the penalty was death. But under Jewish law the penalty CERTAINLY WAS NOT being forced to be married to the woman without ever being able to have sex. It’s a complete Catholic fabrication. And what is this foolishness about being stoned to death if she had other children!!! And not only that but Joseph being stone to death as well!! The Law of Moses says nothing of the kind.
And so also it was spoken of Jesus, "Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t his mother’s name Mary, and aren’t his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas? ? And His sisters, are they not all with us?" Matt 13:55,56

And so also the Catholic Church never teaches how at one time Mary though Jesus was crazy. "Then Jesus entered a house, and again a crowd gathered, so that he and his disciples were not even able to eat. When his familyheard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, 'He is out of his mind.'" Mark 3:20,21 Then if we continue on to verse 31 when they actually arrived it says: Then Jesus’ mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him. A crowd was sitting around him, and they told him, "Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you." "Who are my mother and my brothers?" he asked. Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, "Here are my mother and my brothers! Whoever does God’s will is my brother and sister and mother." Mark 3:31-35 Now we understand the sense of what Jesus meant. For at this point his mother and brothers were not doing the will of God in attempting to take him away from his ministry. And we see further evidence in John 7 that his brothers held him in contempt. This was kind of a rebuke, an insult to Mary who came to interfere with his mission. Who did Jesus say was his "mother" here? He looked away from Mary and look at those seated around him and viewed them as his mother instead. We can at least deduce from this that Jesus didn't make a big deal about his mother Mary. And certainly didn't make her into a goddess as the Catholic Church has done. And when it comes to incidents like this where she is not doing God's will she is less than no big deal. In view of her behavior here Christ wouldn't even acknowledge her as his mother until she repents.

Secondly when Jesus said, "Whoever does God’s will is my brother and sister and mother" this brings up the idea of members of a common household - an immediate family. This issue was intimacy with Jesus. I don't read this as saying "Whoever does God’s will is my second cousin twice removed on my father's side". I read this as one's immediate family, the members of whom grow up in a common household.

Blessed Among Women

One justification Catholics may give for their idolatrous veneration of Mary is the fact that she was "blessed" in bearing the Messiah.

Luke 1:41 "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!"
Luke 1:48 "From now on all generations will call me blessed."But Jesus said that lots of people are blessed, yet Catholics don't likewise worship them.Luke 6:20 Blessed are you poor
Luke 6:21 Blessed are you who hunger now,
Luke 6:21 Blessed are you who weep now
Luke 6:22 Blessed are you when men hate you
1Peter 1:14 If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you.But in contrast notice Jesus response to this idea of Mary's blessedness.While Jesus was saying these things, one of the women in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, "Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed." But He said, "On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it." Luke 11:27,28Thus in contrast to hearing and doing the Word of God, Jesus thought little of the blessedness of his mother bearing him - and so also his followers. For the New Testament authors speak very little of Mary.
Praying to Mary and consulting the dead

As I will mention further on, the occultic practice of the Catholic church to pray to dead people is contrary to the Bible. Praying to Mary - a dead woman - through their Rosary prayer is the primary example of this occultic practice. But also is the practice of consulting the dead. Deut 18:11 "Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead." Yet Catholic mediums claim to have had visions of Mary who spoke to them and instructed them to do such things as pray the Rosary and to build her a temple and also in accordance with their practice of necromancy they claim this dead woman foretells the future that the God will consecrate Russia to her. She is as the Catholic's goddess. And if they need guidance to find something they lost they will pray to Saint Anthony - the saint of lost things. Indeed the list of Catholic saints reads like a list of Chinese kitchen gods. Indeed the saints would have to be omnipresent gods if they were to hear all the catholics praying to them.

Catholics try to justify speaking to the dead saying that they are not dead, whereas they are actually physically dead. But since they are alive in spirit in the afterlife, therefore Catholics feel justified in praying to them. But besides violating the principle of Deut 18:11, there is no instruction or example in the New Testament of praying to dead saints. Some bring up the transfiguration incident. But Jesus is Lord of the dead and the living and thus it doesn't apply to him. Secondly consider the state they are spoken of being in. For dead saints are spoken as being asleep. If they are asleep, they are not listening to you. They don't have contact with what goes on here. Consider Luke 16 concerning how Jesus portrayed the afterlife in the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus. Did Lazarus have contact with the world? Could he hear people praying for him? No. He would have to be raised from the dead.

The Queen of Heaven?

Many Catholics refer to Mary as "the Queen of Heaven".

"She has been appointed by God to be the Queen of heaven and earth", Pius IX, 1854
Oh yes, the Bible does refer to the "Queen of Heaven". Mary worshippers are like the people Jeremiah spoke of saying, "The children gather wood, the fathers light the fire, and the women knead the dough and make cakes of bread for the Queen of Heaven. They pour out drink offerings to other gods to provoke me to anger." Jeremiah 7:18

Co-Redeemer?

Pope Benedict XV, in 1918 - "Mary suffered with Christ and nearly died with Him when He died, thus she may rightly be said to have redeemed the human race with Christ."

Pope Pius XI, in 1923 - "The virgin of sorrows shared the work of redemption with Jesus Christ."

Pope Leo XIII, in 1891 "No one can approach Christ except through His mother."

Bishop of Asti: 'the dogma of the singular privilege granted by the Divine Redeemer to His pure mother, the Co-redemptress of the world.'

Bishop of Gallipoli wrote, 'the human race, whom the Son of God, from her, redeemed; whom, together with Him, she herself co-redeemed.'

Pope John Paul II "Membership in the Militia means complete dedication to the Kingdom of God and to the salvation of souls through Mary Immaculate."

Pope Benedict XV: "One can justly say that with Christ, she herself redeemed mankind."

St. Germanus: "No one is saved but through Mary."

Pope Pius IX: "Our salvation is based upon the holy Virgin..."
Your wall text is rather impenetrable.

But to focus on a few salient points, and to reiterate the above, we do not worship Our Lady. Somebody's inability (or unwillingness) to recognize that fact doesn't change the fact.

The Co-Redemptrix thing is technically true but it's a lot easier to misunderstand than it is to understand. The title refers to her role in the Incarnation. Without her assent, Our Lord would not have been born. She was not a womb with feet. She was an active participant in His Incarnation. She had a key, though minor, role in bringing redemption to the world.

As it turns out though, the Co-Redemptrix thing is not dogma. Pope John Paul II was probably the most Marian Pope in the last few centuries, possibly the most Marian ever. And if he wasn't quite willing to say that Our Lady as Co-Redemptrix is Church dogma, the odds of it ever becoming dogma seem pretty slim to me. This is speculative stuff and so Catholics are not bound to believe in it. They can if they want to though.

"Until"? Really, you're using that?

Our Lady's Immaculate Conception is bothersome to a lot of people. But it proceeds from a pretty sound chain of logic. The more I consider it, the more it makes perfect sense.

As to her Perpetual Virginity, the Early Church believed it. This includes people who were personally taught and trained by the apostles. Why do you think you know something more about her than they do?
 
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