How Free Will Destroys the Gospel

[Dave L]

And if I refuse? It is a free-will choice. I am grabbing a life raft that is offered to me. I am not saving myself in and of myself, the salvation was put in front of me, I did not create the salvation...

What happens if you do not seize the opportunity?

 

[Dave L]

No, they don't do that. Why is it a favorite to leave out the truth so often when it comes to this subject? It's very important people stop deceiving others by saying we condone a works bases salvation period. The point of that is to make what we do condone look bad buy not being truthful about it, or only telling a half truth, and when people have to push their opinion of their way to salvation with untruths, well, you all judge for yourselves what their way is worth.

Faith and works is all I've ever seen pushed by the non faith only crowd (me/others). I have very rarely if ever seen anyone push a works only salvation, which we all know is ridiculous, and I think some know that, the very reason they say we do that...get what I'm saying...it's about deceptively turning people against the faith and works crowd, so please don't do that. There is a huge difference between works only, and faith and works, works only is not biblical but faith and works is.

Try this little experiment if you don't believe me, do a bible search on "faith and works" and see what you come up with. It makes it so easy to understand that some will just ignore it, it's all they can do if they want to deny it, because what the bible actually says on the subject is undeniable.

Faith without works is dead.

Faith without works is dead, but faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, which God must provide before you can believe in any true sense.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Yes, and this we do as a result of salvation, not as the means.

Salvation is the result of a choice we make. It is there if we accept it or not.

 

[Strange Plane]

If we do the work of God, it's not our work. It is God working through us; we are choosing to obey. The flesh is at odds with the spirit and the world is at odds with what is of heaven. A man of the world can not understand a man who isn't of the world but is instead of God; the world will naturally hate what isn't part of it.

 

[bcbsr]

Good Day, Bcbsr

Paul is in the text referring to the Apostles at the council of Jerusalem (those who seemed).

Do you have an long standing issue with apostolic authority or is this new?

As do I affirm the historical norm of Sola- Scriptura.

I am quite confused as to why you affix a status of celebrities to these Christians , do consider Paul, Moses, and Abraham celebrities as well?

In Him,

Bill

What part of "I'll put my faith in the Word of God" did you not understand?

 

[Dave L]

Salvation is the result of a choice we make. It is there if we accept it or not.

But we become our own savior if it depends on us?

 

[YeshuaFan]

Faith without works is dead, but faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, which God must provide before you can believe in any true sense.

When we were spiritual dead in our sins and transgressions before God, non of us would have the means to just will ourselves to come alive again!

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

The New Covenant is between Christ and the Father. And we live under it.
““My lovingkindness I will keep for him forever, And My covenant shall be confirmed to him [Jesus]. “So I will establish his descendants forever And his throne as the days of heaven.” (Psalm 89:28–29) (NASB95)

No, it is between us and the Father, Yeshua being the mediator.

 

[bcbsr]

You make salvation conditional. This is not grace.

Jesus and his apostles make salvation conditioned upon faith. You reject that, you reject the gospel.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

But we become our own savior if it depends on us?

No the savior is Yeshua, He is the mediator. It is HE that provides the opportunity for salvation. It was His action that provided it and our action to accept it...that is what a covenant is.

 

[Dave L]

No the savior is Yeshua, He is the mediator. It is HE that provides the opportunity for salvation. It was His action that provided it and our action to accept it...that is what a covenant is.

But you make the final decision?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

But you make the final decision?

So? That is what being created with free-will is. God did not create robots. He does not FORCE us to love and obey Him.

 

[bling]

Why do you think God wants to save all? Could he not save all if he wanted to, being omnipotent?

The God, I know Loves everyone, just as we are to Love our enemies and do good toward them.

God is not going to force people to go to heaven, who have shown they would be unhappy in heaven by showing they would never like to be Loved unselfishly.

It would not be Loving on God’s part to force us to Love and the “love” that was forced on us would not be Godly type Love, this would be like a shotgun wedding with God holding the shotgun. Godly type Love cannot be made instinctive to us because that would be a robotic type Love.

Are you saying God only loves a few people and has no concern for the rest (they can all go to hell as far as He is concerned)? Why are you one of the lucky ones?

 

[Dave L]

The God, I know Loves everyone, just as we are to Love our enemies and do good toward them.

God is not going to force people to go to heaven, who have shown they would be unhappy in heaven by showing they would never like to be Loved unselfishly.

It would not be Loving on God’s part to force us to Love and the “love” that was forced on us would not be Godly type Love, this would be like a shotgun wedding with God holding the shotgun. Godly type Love cannot be made instinctive to us because that would be a robotic type Love.

Are you saying God only loves a few people and has no concern for the rest (they can all go to hell as far as He is concerned)? Why are you one of the lucky ones?

God hates the wicked.

 

[Dave L]

So? That is what being created with free-will is. God did not create robots. He does not FORCE us to love and obey Him.

You cannot choose to love anyone. It is a condition of the heart. In God's case, people naturally hate him and love sin. So he must give us a new nature before we can love him and believe in him.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

God hates the wicked.

He does not hate the wicked, He and their sin are mutually exclusive. He would rather they turn from their wickedness and return.

 

[Strange Plane]

But we become our own savior if it depends on us?

If your house is burning, do you take credit for saving your own life because you grabbed hold of the firefighter and he carried you out?

 

[Kenny'sID]

Yes, faith without the works of the Holy Spirit is dead. Faith without the fruit of the Holy Spirit is dead. These works referenced here are not our works but the works of God through us. This is what I believe.

For me, we do them by simply doing what God tells us to do, it's completely up to us whether we do or not.

Are you actually saying that if we do nothing, then God didn't do any works through us so in turn, we don't have to worry about it? That would be way to convenient for me.

Also, and very important, did you not notice how you changed the wording of the bible there? Can you please show me the following scripture, and prove me wrong:

Faith without the works of the Holy Spirit is dead. Faith without the fruit of the Holy Spirit is dead.

 

[Strange Plane]

He does not hate the wicked, He and their sin are mutually exclusive. He would rather they turn from their wickedness and return.

He hates their wickedness though...

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

You cannot choose to love anyone. It is a condition of the heart. In God's case, people naturally hate him and love sin. So he must give us a new nature before we can love him and believe in him.

And how does that new nature come about?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

He hates their wickedness though...

that is what I said