Is evolution a fact or theory?

[sfs]

One that has never been found in the fossil records

I don't need my grandfather's body to know that my cousin and I are related -- DNA does the trick just fine.

 

[sfs]

Maybe some of you should read "The Language of God" written by Frances Collins, the Director of the Human Genome Project and a Christian if you haven't already.

Or any of the many other books available, like Denis Lamoureux's I Love Jesus and I Accept Evolution.

 

[The Barbarian]

One that has never been found in the fossil records,

According to your fellow YE Creationist...

Darwin’s third expectation - of higher-taxon stratomorphic intermediates - has been confirmed by such examples as the mammal-like reptile groups31 between the reptiles and the mammals, and the phenacdontids32 between the horses and their presumed ancestors. Darwin’s fourth expectation - of stratomorphic series - has been confirmed by such examples as the early bird series,33 the tetrapod series,34,35 the whale series,36 the various mammal series of the Cenozoic37 (for example, the horse series, the camel series, the elephant series, the pig series, the titanothere series, etc.), the Cantius and
Plesiadapus primate series,38 and the hominid series.39 Evidence for not just one but for all three of the species level and above types of stratomorphic intermediates expected by macroevolutionary theory is surely strong evidence for macroevolutionary theory.
https://creation.com/images/pdfs/tj/j09_2/j09_2_216-222.pdf

and Mankind is different than any other primate, as we were a direct creation of God!

How are we different? We were brought forth by the earth, as other animals were, but then...

Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Our bodies are formed naturally, but our souls are given directly by God.

 

[GenemZ]

Maybe some of you should read "The Language of God" written by Frances Collins, the Director of the Human Genome Project and a Christian if you haven't already.

Irrelevant... Maybe for an unbeliever as a challenge.

But, if someone claims to be a believer I Jesus Christ? His Word says God formed the body of Adam out of the elements of the earth. It also says that the Lord also formed the bodies of the land animals and birds out of the same elements of the earth. Not one from the other. If we came from a chimpanzee? God would have told us. He tells us how He disciplined Nebuchadnezzar and turned into a half animal and made him eat grass.

"You will be driven away from people and will live with the wild animals;
you will eat grass like the ox. Seven times will pass by for you until you
acknowledge that the Most High is sovereign over all kingdoms on earth
and gives them to anyone he wishes.”
Immediately what had been said about Nebuchadnezzar was fulfilled.
He was driven away from people and ate grass like the ox. His body was
drenched with the dew of heaven until his hair grew like the feathers of
an eagle and his nails like the claws of a bird." Dan 4:32-33​

So, why be shy then about telling us that man came from if we evolved from a chimp if it were so?

No way around it. To try to reason with someone who claims to be saved? Well.. that's easy to claim. Being a follower of Christ isn't always easy. Especially if the opinions of those heading for the Lake of Fire matter more to you than God's Word, because you want to avoid the shame of ridicule from the elitist intellectuals who desire to dominate over weak minds with oppressive data that has been twisted to counter God's Word.

"Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from
you Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands,
you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded." Jas 4:7-8​

That's what it boils down to.

 

[2tim_215]

Irrelevant... Maybe for an unbeliever.

But, if someone claims to be a believer I Jesus Christ? His Word says God formed the body of Adam out of the elements of the earth. It also says that the Lord also formed the bodies of the land animals and birds out of the same elements of the earth. Not one from the other. If we came from a chimpanzee? God would have told us. He tells us how He disciplined Nebuchadnezzar and turned into a half animal and made him eat grass.

"You will be driven away from people and will live with the wild animals;
you will eat grass like the ox. Seven times will pass by for you until you
acknowledge that the Most High is sovereign over all kingdoms on earth
and gives them to anyone he wishes.”
Immediately what had been said about Nebuchadnezzar was fulfilled.
He was driven away from people and ate grass like the ox. His body was
drenched with the dew of heaven until his hair grew like the feathers of
an eagle and his nails like the claws of a bird." Dan 4:32-33​

So, why be shy then about telling us that man came from if we evolved from a chimp if it were so?

No way around it. To try to reason with someone who claims to be saved? Well.. that's easy to claim. Being a follower of Christ isn't always easy. Especially if the opinions of those heading for the Lake of Fire matter more to you than God's Word, because you want to avoid the shame of ridicule from the elitists intellectuals who dominate over weak minds with oppressive data that has been twisted to counter God's Word.

That's what it boils down to.

It should have some relevance for someone who claims to be a believer of science. I wonder how many of those who've developed those scientific theories supporting evolution were either atheists or agnostics as was Darwin who once was a believer who apparently lost his faith when his daughter Annie got sick and died. It was after this that he published his book, "The Origin of Species".

Death Of Child May Have Influenced Darwin's Work

DARWIN’S DAUGHTER: Did Darwin turn away from God because of the death of his daughter Anne?

 

[YeshuaFan]

I don't need my grandfather's body to know that my cousin and I are related -- DNA does the trick just fine.

ALL life forms are earth are 90+ in common, and primate higher than that, as God used a common template for life forms!

 

[GenemZ]

It should have some relevance for someone who claims to be a believer of science. I wonder how many of those who've developed those scientific theories supporting evolution were either atheists or agnostics as was Darwin who once was a believer who apparently lost his faith when his daughter Annie got sick and died. It was after this that he published his book, "The Origin of Species".

I have known scientists.... They have no problem with what the Bible teaches... because? They KNOW Jesus Christ is real and right now controlling history from His Throne in Heaven.

Jesus tests and lets people expose themselves, or to discover who they really are in Christ and want to be.

Its ridiculous. From my church one graduate from MIT wrote his thesis based upon what he was taught from the pulpit. Taught by a man who had one of the finest educations one could ask for. There is no excuse.

The Holy Spirit is everywhere and quick to guide each one of us to where we will find the Truth..... That is, if we do not grieve or quench the Spirit. Pride and the fear of ridicule of men is sin when it bends us to do the will of another who opposes God's Truth.. That is not to say, that some of the stands on creation by young earth creationists are not an embarrassment in how they deduct. You must seek and you will find. Genesis can be understood if one has the grace to exegete the Hebrew in depth and with great detail. Not everyone who professes to be an expert is.

Here is one scientist I can show you.. A scholar. ACOL - ABOUT THE AUTHOR

He wrote this work (among many) ... Without Form and Void - Chapter 1

 

[YeshuaFan]

I have known scientists.... They have no problem with what the Bible teaches... because? They KNOW Jesus Christ is real and right now controlling history from His Throne in Heaven.

Jesus tests and lets people expose themselves, or to discover who they really are in Christ and want to be.

Its ridiculous. From my church one graduate from MIT wrote his thesis based upon what he was taught from the pulpit. Taught by a man who had one of the finest educations one could ask for. There is no excuse.

The Holy Spirit is everywhere and quick to guide each one of us to where we will find the Truth..... That is, if we do not grieve or quench the Spirit. Pride and the fear of ridicule of men is sin when it bends us to do the will of another who opposes God's Truth.. That is not to say, that some of the stands on creation by young earth creationists are not an embarrassment in how they deduct. You must seek and you will find. Genesis can be understood if one has the grace to exegete the Hebrew in depth and with great detail. Not everyone who professes to be an expert is.

Here is one scientist I can show you.. A scholar. ACOL - ABOUT THE AUTHOR

He wrote this work (among many) ... Without Form and Void - Chapter 1

Genesis is an accurate viewpoint on the origin and the universe, and of life forms, as it asserts God created all!

 

[GenemZ]

Genesis is an accurate viewpoint on the origin and the universe, and of life forms, as it asserts God created all!

Even though you accept that because you know Jesus Christ lives? How much of what is contained in the Hebrew text do we really know? Very few are able to teach it in depth, though many feel deeply about what they can know...or think they know. English translations are misleading at times and weak. Its why secularism has gained so much ground over the years.

 

[sfs]

ALL life forms are earth are 90+ in common, and primate higher than that, as God used a common template for life forms!

So? I can still tell that you're related to your cousins, and I can tell that humans are related to chimpanzees.

 

[2tim_215]

So? I can still tell that you're related to your cousins, and I can tell that humans are related to chimpanzees.

Related to the same creator.

 

[The Barbarian]

His Word says God formed the body of Adam out of the elements of the earth. It also says that the Lord also formed the bodies of the land animals and birds out of the same elements of the earth.

Nope. He says that the earth and water and air brought forth living things as He commanded. He doesn't say how that happened. And He isn't required to tell us how; if it mattered to our salvation, He would have told us. But it doesn't.

Even if you're not satisfied with that, it doesn't change things.

 

[GenemZ]

So? I can still tell that you're related to your cousins, and I can tell that humans are related to chimpanzees.

Are chimpanzees related to apes? Are chimpanzees related to orangutans? Some try to say man acts more like bonobos. How can you tell? And why did we escape the bananas and tree hanging?

Someone can claim a Harley Davidson is related to a car. That is. If you simply looked at the isolated parts, one could begin to make that hypothesis.

 

[The Barbarian]

Are chimpanzees related to apes?

Humans and chimps are more closely related to each other than they are to other apes, but they are still apes.

Are chimpanzees related to orangutans?

Yep. Just not as closely as they are related to us.

Some try to say man acts more like bonobos.

Humans are more violent than bonobos. But in some way we are like them as well. They are chimpanzees too, just a slightly different species of chimpanzee.

How can you tell? And why did we escape the bananas and tree hanging?

We evolved back in the pliocene when the world was slightly cooler and drier than the previous period. Forests were reduced, and some animals, like early horses and hominids ventured out into the spreading grasslands.

Someone can claim a Harley Davidson is related to a car.

No sign of common descent.

That is. If you simply looked at the isolated parts, one could begin to make that hypothesis.

You could say that about birds and humans, too. So it fails the first test.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Even though you accept that because you know Jesus Christ lives? How much of what is contained in the Hebrew text do we really know? Very few are able to teach it in depth, though many feel deeply about what they can know...or think they know. English translations are misleading at times and weak. Its why secularism has gained so much ground over the years.

Jesus and paul both treated the accounts in Genesis as being real historical accounts...

 

[YeshuaFan]

So? I can still tell that you're related to your cousins, and I can tell that humans are related to chimpanzees.

Not by common ancestory, as Man came about by direct creation of God!

 

[The Barbarian]

Jesus and paul both treated the accounts in Genesis as being real historical accounts...

Nope. But if you think so, show us where they said Genesis was a literal history.

 

[2tim_215]

What makes you say that "God created the heavens and the earth" and "God made Adam from the dust of the ground and breathed into him the breath of life" is not literal? I know you're a believer Barbarian. What's your alternative explanation? Who created the heavens and the earth?

Nature? Nature is just another alternative for God that man has come up with. And where did the first man come from? You think that Adam evolved billions of years ago starting with an amoeba or some sea creature? Or was he created just the way Genesis says he was, a direct act of God?

Take God out of the picture and evolution as an explanation for man and it becomes more plausible. However with God in the picture, He becomes our best answer for our creation and how it took place and surprisingly the simplest one to comprehend.

 

[The Barbarian]

What makes you say that "God created the heavens and the earth"

Because He did? Our major difference is that you don't approve of the way He did it.

and "God made Adam from the dust of the ground and breathed into him the breath of life" is not literal?

Because, as the early Christians noted, the text of Genesis itself tells us that it's not a literal history. This verse says that man's body was created like the other animals from the world itself, but that his soul is given directly by God.

I know you're a believer Barbarian. What's your alternative explanation? Who created the heavens and the earth?

Why is it hard for you to accept that God did it?

Nature? Nature is just another alternative for God that man has come up with.

No. That way lies pantheism. God is not nature. Nature is a creation of His, by which He does most things in this world.

And where did the first man come from?

Evolved from other hominids.

You think that Adam evolved billions of years ago starting with an amoeba or some sea creature?

A few million years ago from other hominids.

Or was he created just the way Genesis says he was

That's what I just told you.

Take God out of the picture and evolution as an explanation for man and it becomes more plausible.

Nope. A universe that just popped up at random could hardly be expected to produce us. Darwin mentioned this in the last sentence of his book. God made it all. There are some people just not willing to accept a God powerful enough to do it as He did it.

 

[GenemZ]

Jesus and paul both treated the accounts in Genesis as being real historical accounts...

Was I saying anything other than that?

And, both Jesus and Paul knew the specific Hebrew meaning of words that often times ends up with a generic ring to it in our English translations.

Man was created [bara] in God's image ( Gen 1:27 )

It was human souls that were created in God's image. Just like God's essence, man's soul is invisible and immaterial. Its the soul (not the body) that was created in God's image.

What the Lord molded and formed [not created] from the elements of the earth in Genesis 2:7? It was a body for the created soul to inhabit, to function with while being placed in God's created material world.

"Then the Lord God formed [jatsar] a man from the dust (elements) of the earth
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living soul."​

Keep in mind, please. That "man" was not alive until after the Lord breathed a soul into that body! The soul is what we are. Its our soul that lives and gives life to our body.

Point of interest:

Science has since discovered that the elements of the earth is what a human body consists of.
Moses had no way of knowing this.