Ellen White's Sabbath in Eden is Not Biblical

[Dale]

I would not be using "spirit filled pastors say nothing about it" as a way of gauging what is true or not.

Try studying the passage properly. Then also go back to 300AD and study how Sunday worship came to be.

The tale that the SDA tell about the Sabbath being "changed" by the Pope around 350 AD is simply not true. For one thing, it was never changed. Christians did not transfer the rules about the Sabbath to Sunday. They discarded them.

In a book called To the Nations, Justin Martyr described Christian worship. He described Christians worshiping on Sunday, and he knows nothing about the day being changed since the beginning of Christianity. The scholars say that Justin Martyr wrote To the Nations around 150 AD. That is 200 years before the SDA mistakenly think that the Pope "changed" the Sabbath.

 

[Dale]

SDA founder Ellen White said that the Patriarchs observed the Sabbath. This is quoted in my third post. If this is so, then Abraham must have kept a Sabbath.

There is no mention in Genesis of Abraham keeping a Sabbath day. Genesis devotes a surprising amount of space to Abraham, starting in Chapter 12 all the way through Chapter 23. After that the action shifts to Isaac, and from there to Jacob. That is twelve chapters of Genesis with Abraham as the protagonist, yet no mention of a Sabbath observance. In Chapter 17, God makes an "everlasting covenant" with Abraham, yet God makes no mention of Sabbath. Instead, the everlasting covenant is about circumcision.

The SDA would no doubt be delighted if the near sacrifice of Isaac in Chapter 22 had happened on a Sabbath, but there is no mention of this.

The word "Sabbath" does not appear in the Bible until Exodus Sixteen.

Obviously the SDA "prophetess" Ellen White is wrong.

 

[fromtheearth]

Seventh Day Adventists do not keep the Sabbath. They make no attempt to follow the Old Testament laws on the Sabbath. They carry loads into the church when they hold a church dinner on Saturday, for instance. They will travel any distance to church.

The Old Testament Sabbath is labor law, designed to make sure every employee and every servant gets a day off.

The SDA are inconsistent. They demand that everyone else keep the Sabbath and yet they don't keep it themselves.

You are blatantly wrong in that statement. They certainly do not expect different of others than themselves.
SDA beliefs are of the Sabbath being a day of rest, but not the same as the Jewish beliefs. You are the one equating then

 

[fromtheearth]

The tale that the SDA tell about the Sabbath being "changed" by the Pope around 350 AD is simply not true. For one thing, it was never changed. Christians did not transfer the rules about the Sabbath to Sunday. They discarded them.

In a book called To the Nations, Justin Martyr described Christian worship. He described Christians worshiping on Sunday, and he knows nothing about the day being changed since the beginning of Christianity. The scholars say that Justin Martyr wrote To the Nations around 150 AD. That is 200 years before the SDA mistakenly think that the Pope "changed" the Sabbath.

No one said anything about "transferring rules" I said the day of worship was changed. And there certainly is evidence of that, including from the Catholic church itself. I can't help if you choose to ignore it.

I also can't have a decent debate if you are going to continue misrepresenting the truth.

Good luck with your research,

 

[NBB]

I would not be using "spirit filled pastors say nothing about it" as a way of gauging what is true or not.

Try studying the passage properly. Then also go back to 300AD and study how Sunday worship came to be.

On touchy subjects, to whom to turn if not the Holy spirit to get guidance?

 

[fromtheearth]

On touchy subjects, to whom to turn if not the Holy spirit to get guidance?

I agree with that idea, I just mean the part where you said the pastor's have said nothing.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

 

[Tolworth John]

What argument do you think I made?

Arguing about the sabeth using ellen whites arguments.

 

[Brotherly Spirit]

I believe what the Bible has said about it in Genesis 2:3 but also Mark 2:27. Clearly God blessed and sanctified the seventh day, yet it wasn't a commandment to some or law to all. Jesus addresses the strictness of enforcing what's supposed to be a day of rest, and more importantly a day to be with God as Adam and Eve were as Genesis 2 continues.

So personally I do believe the Sabbath is Saturday, except it's a day kept from the heart and good works can be done. The type of work to avoid is for works sake, not basic care for yourself and others (cooking a meal) or even some work needed around the house and for others (lawn care or house maintenance etc.) It's a judgment call what's considered work, my opinion it's for us not to be enslaved to careers/jobs. But I believe there's mercy for that too, some don't have a choice if they want to provide for their families. Which is probably why it became a law for masters/employees to give people rest and also for them to be cared for providing what they needed (feed the hungry, clothe the naked, shelter the homeless etc.)

Reason to further consider what Jesus said about the Sabbath and the sermon on the mount, also later the Last Supper when similarly He tells the disciples to gather in remembrance of Him but doesn't specify a day in 1 Corinthians 11:24-26. Regardless I believe it's more important to remember God and Jesus on either day or any day of the week, also do good works needed at home for your family or elsewhere for others. Not yet found a Church or gone regularly, but if a Sunday worshiping Church was all that was available, I rather have fellowship at one then be a lone believer.

 

[Richard Ruhling]

The 4th Commandment makes it clear that the Sabbath is a memorial of Creation, "for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth and rested the 7th day...wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it." Ex 20:8-11.
To say that there was no command till the Jews came overlooks Gen 26:5 where Abraham obeyed God's statutes and commandments. God didn't leave them without a knowledge of right or wrong, and they had better minds than we do to pass it on to their children.
To say that the commend is not found in the New Testament overlooks the fact that it didn't need focus because the Jews were sticklers for it and had lost the spirit that "the Sabbth was made for man and not man for the Sabbath."
The word "Sabbath" is found nine times in the book of Acts (after the cross) and THREE times it says every Sabbath or from Sabbath to Sabbath as in Acts 15:21 where the Jerusalem Council didn't want Gentiles to face so many laws before joining the church so they were expected to pick it up "for Moses has them that preach him from Sabbath to sabbath in synagogue.
Christ said, "Till heaven and earth pass, no one jot or tittle shall pass from the law till all be fulfilled." Matt 5:18. We are not saved by our works in keeping the law, but as a standard of life, the 10 Commandments have no parallel.

 

[Dale]

It is difficult to exaggerate Ellen White's obsession with the Sabbath.




"Had the Sabbath always been sacredly observed, there could never have been an atheist or an idolater."


Ellen White, Conflict of the Ages, Introduction: Chapter 29: Satan's Enmity Against the Law

(Kindle Location 5383-85)




Does anyone believe this?

 

[Richard Ruhling]

If everyone observed the Sabbath because "in six days the Lord made heaven and earth" (Exod 20) there would be no atheists,

 

[Richard Ruhling]

SDA founder Ellen White said that the Patriarchs observed the Sabbath. This is quoted in my third post. If this is so, then Abraham must have kept a Sabbath.

There is no mention in Genesis of Abraham keeping a Sabbath day. Genesis devotes a surprising amount of space to Abraham, starting in Chapter 12 all the way through Chapter 23. After that the action shifts to Isaac, and from there to Jacob. That is twelve chapters of Genesis with Abraham as the protagonist, yet no mention of a Sabbath observance. In Chapter 17, God makes an "everlasting covenant" with Abraham, yet God makes no mention of Sabbath. Instead, the everlasting covenant is about circumcision.

The SDA would no doubt be delighted if the near sacrifice of Isaac in Chapter 22 had happened on a Sabbath, but there is no mention of this.

The word "Sabbath" does not appear in the Bible until Exodus Sixteen.

Obviously the SDA "prophetess" Ellen White is wrong.

 

[Richard Ruhling]

Oops--Probably Ellen White was right in saying the patriarchs kept the Sabbath because Gen 26:5 says Abraham obeyed my statutes and kept my commandments and laws."
And since Moses wrote both Genesis and Exodus, he knew they were the same.
Why such a rant against the Sabbath when it is found nine times in the book of Acts where the "first day" is only found once when Paul preached till midnight because he was leaving the next day. No indication in Scripture that it was changed. God says, "I change not" Mal 3:6.
And if you don't think the Mother of Harlots and Abominations is behind Sunday, why Pope John Paul's encyclical, Dies Domini, and Pope Francis encyclical, Laudato Si' (disguised as a benefit for ecology to close business on Sunday for family values and the Eucharist, but why should he talk to congress about it. "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion..."
Early Americans understood the 1st (sea) beast of Rev 13 was the papacy that they had fled for freedom in the New World, but now the pope is telling us how to help our economy when every Catholic in S America wants to come here for better opportunity.

 

[mmksparbud]

SDA founder Ellen White said that the Patriarchs observed the Sabbath. This is quoted in my third post. If this is so, then Abraham must have kept a Sabbath.

There is no mention in Genesis of Abraham keeping a Sabbath day. Genesis devotes a surprising amount of space to Abraham, starting in Chapter 12 all the way through Chapter 23. After that the action shifts to Isaac, and from there to Jacob. That is twelve chapters of Genesis with Abraham as the protagonist, yet no mention of a Sabbath observance. In Chapter 17, God makes an "everlasting covenant" with Abraham, yet God makes no mention of Sabbath. Instead, the everlasting covenant is about circumcision.

The SDA would no doubt be delighted if the near sacrifice of Isaac in Chapter 22 had happened on a Sabbath, but there is no mention of this.

The word "Sabbath" does not appear in the Bible until Exodus Sixteen.

Obviously the SDA "prophetess" Ellen White is wrong.

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.


3 and~he~will~much~KNEEL(Verb) (וַיְבָרֶךְ / wai'va'rekh) Elohiym (אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him) AT (אֶת / et) DAY (יוֹם / yom) the~SEVENTH (הַשְּׁבִיעִי / hash'vi'i) and~he~will~much~SET.APART(Verb) (וַיְקַדֵּשׁ / wai'qa'deysh) AT~him (אֹתוֹ / o'to) GIVEN.THAT (כִּי / ki) in~~him (בוֹ / vo) he~did~CEASE(Verb) (שָׁבַת / sha'vat) from~ALL (מִכָּל / mi'kol) BUSINESS~him (מְלַאכְתּוֹ / mê'lakh'to) WHICH (אֲשֶׁר / a'sher) he~did~SHAPE(Verb) (בָּרָא / ba'ra) Elohiym (אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him) to~>~DO(Verb) (לַעֲשׂוֹת / la'a'sot)

and Elohiym exalted the seventh day and he set him apart given that in him he ceased from all of his business which Elohiym shaped to make.

CEASE(Verb) (שבת / sh.b.t) To come to an end; to die out; to stop an activity for the purpose of rest or celebration. | Strong's: #7673

CEASING (fem. שבת / sha'bat) A stopping of work or activity; An activity curtailed before completion. The seventh day of the week (often transliterated as Sabbath) when all business ceases for rest and celebration. | Strong's: #7674, #7676​

The Sabbath has nothing to do with Jews when God set it up at creation week. There were no Jews yet. This is the first time that "shavat" is used. sabbath means "cease". Jesus is the one that created the Sabbath--and He is the Lord of it. He is the Creator, and He created it for man---which means He created it for Adam and eve and yes--they did have a work to do in the garden.
Gen 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

The Sabbath in the Garden was set aside for Adam and Eve to come to God the Creator and learn of Him. To set aside all else they were doing -- "shavat",cease---and to learn of Him who created them.


Ellen White did not create the Sabbath God did. She did not set it up. God did, she didn't even know about it until another woman from another church mentioned it to her and she and the elders got together to read about it from the bible and decided the woman was right.
SDA are not the only 7th day observers--there are several other churches that keep it also. 7th day Baptists, Church of God--the Pitcairn survivors from the Mutiny on the Bounty only had the bible and they were found to be keeping the 7th Sabbath. Some indigenous tribes in Alaska had a prophet who told them to keep the 7th day before any white man showed up also some in South America and Africa. Even if you got rid of EGW the Sabbath would still be kept as it is totally and completely biblical.

 

[Dale]

Oops--Probably Ellen White was right in saying the patriarchs kept the Sabbath because Gen 26:5 says Abraham obeyed my statutes and kept my commandments and laws."
And since Moses wrote both Genesis and Exodus, he knew they were the same.
Why such a rant against the Sabbath when it is found nine times in the book of Acts where the "first day" is only found once when Paul preached till midnight because he was leaving the next day. No indication in Scripture that it was changed. God says, "I change not" Mal 3:6.
And if you don't think the Mother of Harlots and Abominations is behind Sunday, why Pope John Paul's encyclical, Dies Domini, and Pope Francis encyclical, Laudato Si' (disguised as a benefit for ecology to close business on Sunday for family values and the Eucharist, but why should he talk to congress about it. "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion..."
Early Americans understood the 1st (sea) beast of Rev 13 was the papacy that they had fled for freedom in the New World, but now the pope is telling us how to help our economy when every Catholic in S America wants to come here for better opportunity.

Abraham kept God's statutes but the Sabbath as a day of rest had not been given as a statute.

As I pointed out in the post you replied to, in Genesis 17, God makes an Everlasting Covenant with Abraham--and makes no mention of any Sabbath. That's it, Abraham was never supposed to keep a Sabbath.

 

[EJ M]

Ellen White's Sabbath and Eden: More Lengthy Quotes

The last quote deals with Cain's day of rest.



In the circumstances connected with the giving of the manna,we have conclusive evidence that the Sabbath was not instituted, as many claim, when the law was given at Sinai. Before the Israelites came to Sinai they understood the Sabbath to be obligatory upon them.


Ellen White, Conflict of the Ages, Introduction: Chapter 26: From the Red Sea to Sinai
(Kindle Location 4724-25)



After resting upon the seventh day, God sanctified it, or set it apart, as a day of rest for man. Following the example of the Creator, man was to rest upon this sacred day, that as he should look upon the heavens and the earth, he might reflect upon God's great work of creation; and that as he should behold the evidences of God's wisdom and goodness, his heart might be filled with love and reverence for his Maker. In Eden, God set up the memorial of His work of creation, in placing His blessing upon the seventh day. The Sabbath was committed to Adam, the father and representative of the whole human family. Its observance was to be an act of grateful acknowledgment, on the part of all who should dwell upon the earth, that God was their Creator and their rightful Sovereign; that they were the work of His hands and the subjects of His authority. Thus the institution was wholly commemorative, and given to all mankind. There was nothing in it shadowy or of restricted application to any people.


Ellen White, Conflict of the Ages, Introduction: Chapter 2:The Creation
(Kindle Location 867-72)


Before the Fall our first parents had kept the Sabbath, which was instituted in Eden; and after their expulsion from Paradise they continued its observance. They had tasted the bitter fruits of disobedience, and had learned what every one that tramples upon God's commandments will sooner or later learn--that the divine precepts are sacred and immutable, and that the penalty of transgression will surely be inflicted. The Sabbath was honored by all the children of Adam that remained loyal to God. But Cain and his descendants did not respect the day upon which God had rested. They chose their own time for labor and for rest, regardless of Jehovah's express command.


Ellen White, Conflict of the Ages, Introduction: Chapter 6: Seth and Enoch
(Kindle Location 1392-97)

A few points to ponder,
If keeping the sabbath were for all God's people, Jew and Christian,
it would be difficult to live very far above the 30th parallel.
Remember, God commanded to stone a man for gathering firewood and kindling a fire.
If the Sabbath is a commandment to be brought into the New Testament, why was that not clear in Acts 15?
SDA's condemn Sunday worshipers as changing God's law, then they do that themselves by not keeping the Sabbath as it is commanded.
Orthodox Jews come the closest to keeping the Sabbath as it is commanded, but retain the services of a "Sabbath goy" to kindle their fires, turn on the lights, drive them around, etc.
Most SDAs don't even address those thorny issues and if you question them, say those details aren't important for today. (changing God's Law???) Or don't respond at all.
Let's remember, buying and selling are also included in the list of forbidden Sabbath activities, so all utilities must be shut off on Friday evening and you must live in a cold bleak house, and eat cold food until Saturday evening, no TV, no computer, no phone, nothing.
Even starting a car is kindling a fire.
My take on the subject:
If one wants to live that way??...........
But to claim righteousness if one does, and condemning those who don't???.............
SDAs also claim there will be a universal law forbidding buying and selling on Sunday, and that is the mark of the beast. My opinion? More delusion and deception.
They believe the Pope when he says he changed the day of rest to Sunday, but don't believe much else of what he says.
The most concerning SDA doctrine isn't the Sabbath, (which isn't lacking in very much SDA sermons and literature) it's their attempt to down size the Lord Jesus Christ to the level of an angel.
They claim Michael the Archangel somehow morphed into the only begotten Son, Jesus.
Totally contrary to scripture, especially Heb 1.
So, in light of this heresy, SDAs could be more correctly called Michaelians, not Christians.
I'm worried for my SDA friends.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

1. If the Seventh day Sabbath is not important then why does God establish it as an holy day/an everlasting Covenant at Creation?(Genesis 2:2;Hebrews 4:3)
2. Why are we told to fear if the promise of Rest were to have left us?(Hebrews 4:1)
3. Why are we told that the Sabbath day still remains to us?(Hebrews 4:9) And that we are to Labor to enter into this rest?(Hebrews 4:11)
4. Why does God only let those who keep his Sabbath day holy into his Holy mountain(Isaiah 56:1-12) during the time of the mark of the beast. This is the camp of the Saints (Joel 2:1-32, 11) that Satan gathers his armies against.(Revelation 20:9)
5. Why in the New heavens and the New earth is the Seventh day Sabbath still being Kept by the righteous?(Isaiah 66:23)

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

A few points to ponder,
If keeping the sabbath were for all God's people, Jew and Christian,
it would be difficult to live very far above the 30th parallel.
Remember, God commanded to stone a man for gathering firewood and kindling a fire.
If the Sabbath is a commandment to be brought into the New Testament, why was that not clear in Acts 15?
SDA's condemn Sunday worshipers as changing God's law, then they do that themselves by not keeping the Sabbath as it is commanded.
Orthodox Jews come the closest to keeping the Sabbath as it is commanded, but retain the services of a "Sabbath goy" to kindle their fires, turn on the lights, drive them around, etc.
Most SDAs don't even address those thorny issues and if you question them, say those details aren't important for today. (changing God's Law???) Or don't respond at all.
Let's remember, buying and selling are also included in the list of forbidden Sabbath activities, so all utilities must be shut off on Friday evening and you must live in a cold bleak house, and eat cold food until Saturday evening, no TV, no computer, no phone, nothing.
Even starting a car is kindling a fire.
My take on the subject:
If one wants to live that way??...........
But to claim righteousness if one does, and condemning those who don't???.............
SDAs also claim there will be a universal law forbidding buying and selling on Sunday, and that is the mark of the beast. My opinion? More delusion and deception.
They believe the Pope when he says he changed the day of rest to Sunday, but don't believe much else of what he says.
The most concerning SDA doctrine isn't the Sabbath, (which isn't lacking in very much SDA sermons and literature) it's their attempt to down size the Lord Jesus Christ to the level of an angel.
They claim Michael the Archangel somehow morphed into the only begotten Son, Jesus.
Totally contrary to scripture, especially Heb 1.
So, in light of this heresy, SDAs could be more correctly called Michaelians, not Christians.
I'm worried for my SDA friends.

The Pope tried to change the Sabbath day, thinking to change laws and times(Daniel 7:25), but no man has the power to change the Sabbath day. Only the Lord has this power but no other day was spoken of by him besides the seventh day(Hebrews 4:8-9)

Where did you get Michael becoming Christ from? Could you show me this belief of theirs from their website? Or from one of their official publications?

 

[EJ M]

The Pope tried to change the Sabbath day, thinking to change laws and times(Daniel 7:25), but no man has the power to change the Sabbath day. Only the Lord has this power but no other day was spoken of by him besides the seventh day(Hebrews 4:8-9)

Where did you get Michael becoming Christ from? Could you show me this belief of theirs from their website? Or from one of their official publications?

From Wikipedia;
Seventh-day Adventists have traditionally identified Michael the archangel of Jude 9 and Revelation 12:7 as Jesus Christ.
Seventh-day Adventists believe that Michael is another name for the Heavenly Christ, and another name for the Word-of-God (as in John 1) before he became incarnate as Jesus. "Archangel" (meaning "Chief of the Angels") was the leadership position held by the Word-of-God as Michael while among the angels. According to Adventist theology, Michael was considered the "eternal

Word", and not a created being or created angel, and the one by whom all things were created.
The Word was then born incarnate as Jesus.[77] End quote.

You can also find this heresy in their literature if you look.

 

[ewq1938]

Where did you get Michael becoming Christ from? Could you show me this belief of theirs from their website? Or from one of their official publications?

Who Is Michael The Archangel? | Free Book Library | Amazing Facts

"So Michael, the captain of the Lord's host, or army, is another title for Jesus."