2 Thess 2:12 teaches eternal security

[FreeGrace2]

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15

That would be the end of OSAS!
JLB

Only if John had left the word "abiding" out of the verse.

But he didn't.

So all you do is keep showing your lack of discernment about what "abiding" means.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"And we are commanded to believe all that Jesus says."

This phrase is used as a phrase of rebellion and deafness.

So, are you saying that what I said is "a phrase of rebellion and deafness" then??????

Whenever Jesus commands to love, to do, to obey it is interpreted that He meant to believe in Him, which is just logical rubbish.

So, again, it seems to me that commands to love, do and obey being interpreted as believing in Him is "logical rubbish"???????

It seems you have come off the rails.

You notice the difference because when someone says we are commanded to love each other as Jesus loved us, the reply is just to believe Jesus.

Who are you referring to here? I've never said that.

They say Jesus said these things to Jews so we can ignore it, because it was said to just make them feel condemned, so they would be driven more to rely on the cross and His death and resurrection.

Why do you insist on bringing up these "they" idiots. Let's just focus on what I am saying, relative to what you are saying, ok?

The idea we are given a new heart which is healed, cleansed and capable of loving brothers and sisters in Christ is so far from their thinking it is like a alien world.

Who cares about "their world"?

So when people say, I am a sheep of Christ, but I ignore His commands and what He tells me to do, they are lying, because Jesus said His sheep listen to Him and obey His commands, no excuses, no side steps, just obey.

Again, who cares "when people say..."????

btw, why do you fail to understand such a simple verse as John 10:28 and believe that all recipients of eternal life shall never perish?

So not wonder there is such spiritual emptiness from such as these who can only talk about security because that is literally all they have, or the delusion of security because Jesus will declare, I never knew you.

Please quit talking about the "they", who are idiots.

Why am I so confident of this truth, because Jesus said that is what will happen with those who are evil doers, who claim great spiritual works yet do not build their house upon the rock and obey His life saving commands.

OK, please delineate Jesus' "life saving commands", please. And with Scripture.

 

[JLB777]

I have. You have no discernment.


It's the word "abiding" that you seem to be totally incapable of discerning.

Like I just said in my previous post to you, if John had left that word OUT of the verse, you would have a point. But because he put that word IN, you don't. But you have no discernment to understand why the word is important and what it means.

In fact, it seems to me you don't want to know what it means.


I already did, and clearly. Why don't you address my response?


He doesn't. Pretty simple, really. But what John DIDN'T say was that those who hate their brother don't have internal life IN them. Now, that would support your theory.

But, if John had left out "abiding", then he would have been in direct opposition to what Jesus said in John 10:28.

None of which you have been able to discern spiritually.

More opinion and denying what the scripture so plainly says.

I know you are desperate to “redefine” the words of scripture, in a vain attempt to try and change its meaning.

The burden is on you to provide a scripture that says a Christian can hate his brother and still have eternal life abiding in them.


JLB

 

[LightLoveHope]

Please quit talking about the "they", who are idiots.

Hi Free,
Let me put what I am addressing into context. You are part of a group, whether you acknowledge it or not, who have become very influential in the christian world.

The fruit of the position is simple, not the fruits of the Spirit but of wanting a particular emphasis which is not pushed by Jesus, and is against the tenor of His sharing.

"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."
Matthew 19:17

If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love.
John 15:10

The what of knowing Jesus is obeying Him. I am amazed that some believe to rebel against Jesus commandments is following Him, because He only said these things to show how impossible they are. In this version Jesus is sarcastic and lying.

So my friend, are those who share similarly to yourself your friends in Jesus, or are they sheep of a different fold? And if they preach what you preach how can I tell the difference?

If I was to take this further, you Free have claimed I am calling Jesus a liar by not believing He spoke of absolute certainty of salvation of everyone who proclaims faith in Him. Even to say such a thing is so extreme and abrasive. And it suggests to me you have no recognition that I walk in the Spirit or have fear of judging a fellow brother in the Lord.

It is typified by describing believers as idiots. So that is where I leave it.
We share to the limit of our calling, and I praise the Lord for His revelation and love and hope you likewise will and do walk in His ways. God bless you.

 

[LightLoveHope]

btw, why do you fail to understand such a simple verse as John 10:28 and believe that all recipients of eternal life shall never perish?

My position on this is simple, His sheep shall never perish or fall away.
But who are His sheep, only He truly knows. And what if I am conversing with someone who is not His sheep, but convinced it is his mission to drum into me some idea that they cannot let go.

It reminds me of a cult, which centers around one idea, among the vast set of issues of life and faith, because they cannot let it go.

How do I know? Because love is our heart, our mission, our spoken word, our intent, our vision and the Kingdom of God, spoken in righteousness and purity, from a pure heart, founded on truth and Gods word. That is how you can tell a lot of things.

The how often shows the what of our truth and how deep it is in our souls. And to those who regard this as empty sharing, enough said, and God bless you in whatever way you walk, I wish you well.

 

[FreeGrace2]

More opinion and denying what the scripture so plainly says.

This describes your posts perfectly.

Jesus was clear that recipients of eternal life shall never perish. That means once saved, always saved.

But you're just a denier.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Hi Free,
Let me put what I am addressing into context. You are part of a group, whether you acknowledge it or not, who have become very influential in the christian world.

You are wrong by trying to pin some outlandish claims from a group of idiots that I do NOT support.

I defend what Scripture says.

The fruit of the position is simple, not the fruits of the Spirit but of wanting a particular emphasis which is not pushed by Jesus, and is against the tenor of His sharing.

Does John 10:28 tell us that recipients of eternal life shall never perish, or not?

"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."
Matthew 19:17

Do you have any idea why Jesus asked that question? Do you really think the Bible teaches that obeying the Law (commandments) will get anyone into heaven?

Jesus opened with that statement to prove to the man that no one can "enter life by obeying the commandments". It was an "icebreaker" comment. Not instructions on how to enter life.

Or do you not believe what Paul wrote:
Rom 3:20 - Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
Rom 3:28 - For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.
Gal 2:16 - know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love.
John 15:10

This isn't about how to get saved or how to stay saved. It's about fellowship, obviously.

So my friend, are those who share similarly to yourself your friends in Jesus, or are they sheep of a different fold?

Are you still talking aout the idiots that you have been talking about?

And if they preach what you preach how can I tell the difference?

By listening to everything and seeing the difference?

If I was to take this further, you Free have claimed I am calling Jesus a liar by not believing He spoke of absolute certainty of salvation of everyone who proclaims faith in Him.

Why don't you see the absolute certainty of eternal security in John 10:28??

When Jesus said "and they SHALL NEVER PERISH", how is that not absolute certainty?

Please answer this. By NOT accepting eternal security, you ARE NOT believing what Jesus said.

Even to say such a thing is so extreme and abrasive.

To even disbelieve what Jesus said so clearly is extreme.

And it suggests to me you have no recognition that I walk in the Spirit or have fear of judging a fellow brother in the Lord.

Those who don't believe in eternal security AFTER being shown the clear words of Jesus CANNOT be walking in the Spirit.

Most likely, you're walking in your emotions.

It is typified by describing believers as idiots.

The ones you have described who also believe in OSAS are just that. I condemn their claims that you have ascribed to them.

 

[FreeGrace2]

My position on this is simple, His sheep shall never perish or fall away.
But who are His sheep, only He truly knows.

But Jesus tells us who His sheep are.
John 10:9 - I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.They will come in and go out, and find pasture.

Does this seem unclear to you? Or too vague?

What about John 3:16 - For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

or John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

or John 6:47 - Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

These verses very clearly state that believers possess the gift of eternal life.

So, from that fact, John 10:28 guarantees that those who have believed shall never perish.

It's not up to us to determine who is saved or not. Of course that is God's prerogative. But we DO KNOW the principle; all who have believed possess eternal life and therefore shall never perish.

Either you believe that principle or you do not. There can be no fence sitting. Jesus was too clear for that excuse.

And what if I am conversing with someone who is not His sheep, but convinced it is his mission to drum into me some idea that they cannot let go.

All we're supposed to do is give others the gospel. If they have received and believed it, they will no doubt tell you. But if they haven't, then whatever they say should make clear that they need to hear it.

How cares about "some idea that they cannot let go"? That is just a distraction. Focus on the gospel; that Jesus Christ died for their sins and gives eternal life to all who trust HIM to save them.

It reminds me of a cult, which centers around one idea, among the vast set of issues of life and faith, because they cannot let it go.

It seems you are way to distractible. For ANY cult, they need to hear the gospel, not get into a discussion about any other doctrine, much less eternal security.

How do I know? Because love is our heart, our mission, our spoken word, our intent, our vision and the Kingdom of God, spoken in righteousness and purity, from a pure heart, founded on truth and Gods word. That is how you can tell a lot of things.

No, our "mission, spoken word, intent and vision" is to preach the gospel, which is in love. And the only way one can "tell a lot of things" is to study the Bible and gain knowledge of God's Word.

One thing I keep noticing in your posts; not much Scripture, but a lot of emotional talk.

The how often shows the what of our truth and how deep it is in our souls. And to those who regard this as empty sharing, enough said, and God bless you in whatever way you walk, I wish you well.

So, just what is the "what of your truth" regarding one's security?

 

[JLB777]

This describes your posts perfectly.

Jesus was clear that recipients of eternal life shall never perish. That means once saved, always saved.

But you're just a denier.

No scripture here, just mans opinion.


Here is my scripture that I quote each time and you ignore.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15


Born again Christians who hate, no longer have eternal life.



JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

No scripture here, just mans opinion.

Please quit lying. I've quoted John 10:28 many times, which you just ignore.

Here is my scripture that I quote each time and you ignore.

Again, please quit lying. I have explained that verse many times, but which you just continue to ignore.

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15

Are you really ignorant of the fact that the word "abiding" cannot mean "in", since John used that word as well?

Here are 2 statements:

1. no murderer has eternal life IN him
2. no murderer has eternal life abiding in him

Those who read both statements as being EQUAL are in sad shape, because they are NOT equal.

If John meant that those who murder do NOT have eternal life IN them, he wouldn't have needed to add the word "abiding".

He would have just used #1 above to communicate that. But since he included the word "abiding", obviously he meant something else.

So, if #1 was his meaning, why would he include "abiding"? It just becomes an unnecessary word.

Born again Christians who hate, no longer have eternal life.

But John NEVER said this. That is your man-made opinion only.

And if Christians lose eternal life by hating their brothers, then Jesus couldn't have said what John recorded Him to have said in John 10:28, about recipients of eternal life never perishing.

If your man-made opinions were correct, Jesus would have had to say, instead:

"I give them eternal life, and AS LONG AS THEY DON'T HATE THEIR BROTHERS, they shall never perish"

or this:

"I give them eternal life and IF THEY DON'T HATE THEIR BROTHERS they shall never perish"

But we know what He said, and said very plainly, so that even grade school children can understand what He meant.

Because of John 10:28, we know that Christians shall never perish because of what He did ad promises.

He gives eternal life to whoever believes in Him.
John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
John 6:47 - Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.
1 John 5:13 - I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

And, just in case you want to abuse the Greek present tense,
1 John 5:11 - And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

That's as PAST TENSE as it gets.

So, on the basis of having believed in Christ, Jesus GIVES the believer eternal life.

So, John 10:28 seals the deal. Those given eternal life shall never perish.

And you simply don't believe what Jesus says.

Once again I provide verses that actually SAY what I believe and claim, unlike you and your man-made opinions.

If any of the verses I quote don't mean what I believe they mean, how come you've even attempted to explain what my verses do mean?

I sure don't have a problem explaining what the verses you quote mean.

 

[LightLoveHope]

This isn't about how to get saved or how to stay saved. It's about fellowship, obviously.

This sentence defines the problem between our perspectives.
Every negative sentiment Jesus displays is interpreted not as a rejection or
a fundamental failure, but as merely a time of not getting on, but everything
is ok.

Now I agree there is an aspect of this. Why did King David stay Gods chosen
even after Bathsheba, because he repented when confronted.
When Peter was told he would deny Jesus 3 times, he was given the hope that
faith held him, and he would be forgiven if he came back knowing Jesus's heart.

But sinful behaviour destroys our trust that God is love, that He will accept us,
that forgiveness has value or will be applied.

And Jesus is warning about self deception of never starting with Him, while
claiming one has got to know everything.

To summarise our language is about our hearts, our repentance, our walk
and our approach. We alone know what that is, and its difficulties. Depending
on how far we have let Jesus change us, we will be aware of the rules and how
we operate.

Jesus makes it simple. You know what the heart is full of by what comes out
of the mouth. So listen to yourself, and you will discover much about who you
actually are, good or bad. So we stand on how well we know Jesus, listen to
Him and how much we have let Him change us.

God bless you

 

[LightLoveHope]

Please quit lying. I've quoted John 10:28 many times, which you just ignore.


Again, please quit lying. I have explained that verse many times, but which you just continue to ignore.


Are you really ignorant of the fact that the word "abiding" cannot mean "in", since John used that word as well?

Here are 2 statements:

1. no murderer has eternal life IN him
2. no murderer has eternal life abiding in him

Those who read both statements as being EQUAL are in sad shape, because they are NOT equal.

If John meant that those who murder do NOT have eternal life IN them, he wouldn't have needed to add the word "abiding".

He would have just used #1 above to communicate that. But since he included the word "abiding", obviously he meant something else.

So, if #1 was his meaning, why would he include "abiding"? It just becomes an unnecessary word.


But John NEVER said this. That is your man-made opinion only.

And if Christians lose eternal life by hating their brothers, then Jesus couldn't have said what John recorded Him to have said in John 10:28, about recipients of eternal life never perishing.

If your man-made opinions were correct, Jesus would have had to say, instead:

"I give them eternal life, and AS LONG AS THEY DON'T HATE THEIR BROTHERS, they shall never perish"

or this:

"I give them eternal life and IF THEY DON'T HATE THEIR BROTHERS they shall never perish"

But we know what He said, and said very plainly, so that even grade school children can understand what He meant.

Because of John 10:28, we know that Christians shall never perish because of what He did ad promises.

He gives eternal life to whoever believes in Him.
John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
John 6:47 - Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.
1 John 5:13 - I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

And, just in case you want to abuse the Greek present tense,
1 John 5:11 - And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

That's as PAST TENSE as it gets.

So, on the basis of having believed in Christ, Jesus GIVES the believer eternal life.

So, John 10:28 seals the deal. Those given eternal life shall never perish.

And you simply don't believe what Jesus says.

Once again I provide verses that actually SAY what I believe and claim, unlike you and your man-made opinions.

If any of the verses I quote don't mean what I believe they mean, how come you've even attempted to explain what my verses do mean?

I sure don't have a problem explaining what the verses you quote mean.

Your interpretation of eternal life abiding in someone is very biased.
If I abide somewhere, there is a time period about when I start, when I am present and when it ends.
In 1 John 3:15
Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

John appears to be talking in the present tense. Hatred and Gods love in the heart are incompatible. So whatever people might think of others, if they hate, they do not know God or eternal life.

It is warning the sheep to reject disciples or teachers who live like this.
People who live with hate, are not living with God.

Why is John so strong on this? Because Jesus gave His life for us so we need to lay down our lives also for the brothers.

Once you get into was x saved, or how can a believer be lost while converted etc.
The focus is on repentance and getting right with God or being rejected.

It is also why you can end up saying sin and hatred are just part of our experiences in faith, rather than these are deadly states which we need to bring to the cross and walk in His ways. Amen.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Does love change us irrevocably in Christ?

We are dead to the world and alive to Jesus.
Nothing in this world holds us, and all experiences are focused on Him and His nature.

When I was teenager I left my home, my safety and worked with a christian missionary society. I left all I had. I risked all, and trusted in Jesus and His supply.

Someone claimed I was lying. It was as if the monks, nuns and other people who dedicate their lives to Jesus are all lying about what they are doing. All he was actually saying was he could never do such a thing.

The apostles had given up the hold the world had on them for the glory of Jesus.

Hatred is based on unforgiveness, a belief in the loss of something and the desire for revenge and bitterness against another individual. All these things are the enemy of Christ and the cross. The presence of hatred is part of the definition of something that needs to be placed on the altar and committed to Jesus.

So John is saying nothing new, but a reflection of our walk in love, purity, holiness and openness to the eternal.

 

[LightLoveHope]

I had a thought. I am a manager of a software company.
I tell my staff to believe in the software we are going to develop.
I tell them that they need to code the software according the specifications.
I tell them that believing in the software is all they have to do.

After I week I come back to them and ask them how they are doing.
They say, I said believing in the software is all they had to do, so that is all they have done, they believe the software will be fantastic.

So I fire them all.

It is really that simple. Jesus told us how to live, in detail, what is sin what is good works, what is love, what is sacrifice, what is the Kingdom. Yet some teachers think it is all about belief in Jesus, rather than because Jesus is the Son, we know what we need to do.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"This isn't about how to get saved or how to stay saved. It's about fellowship, obviously."

This sentence defines the problem between our perspectives.
Every negative sentiment Jesus displays is interpreted not as a rejection or
a fundamental failure, but as merely a time of not getting on, but everything
is ok.

Didn't you note (or follow) the context of what i said?

Now I agree there is an aspect of this. Why did King David stay Gods chosen even after Bathsheba, because he repented when confronted.
When Peter was told he would deny Jesus 3 times, he was given the hope that
faith held him, and he would be forgiven if he came back knowing Jesus's heart.

But sinful behaviour destroys our trust that God is love, that He will accept us,
that forgiveness has value or will be applied.

Are you ignoring, or even denying the reality that fellowship with the Lord requires certain things?

To summarise our language is about our hearts, our repentance, our walk
and our approach. We alone know what that is, and its difficulties.

No, we don't, unless we study the Bible and gain knowledge.

It seems all you want to talk about is "love". Do you understand how the Bible defines love? I doubt it, from your posts.

Love is not an emotion in the biblical definition. It's not about FEELINGS, but is about ACTION.

Biblical love is patience and kindness. Those are actions, not emotions.

Do you agree?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Your interpretation of eternal life abiding in someone is very biased.

You got that right!! I am totally biased by what the Bible says. Absolutely. Thanks for noticing where my biases are.

If I abide somewhere, there is a time period about when I start, when I am present and when it ends.
In 1 John 3:15
Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

John appears to be talking in the present tense. Hatred and Gods love in the heart are incompatible. So whatever people might think of others, if they hate, they do not know God or eternal life.

It seems that you didn't read anything about what I posted to JLB.

If John only meant that a Christian who hates his brother doesn't have eternal life IN him, why did he add "abide"? Adding that word changes the sentence meaning.

The meaning would be very clear without the "abiding". But the addition of "abiding" means something else.

What it doesn't mean is that a Christian who hates his brother loses eternal life.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I had a thought. I am a manager of a software company.
I tell my staff to believe in the software we are going to develop.

Would the staff (who participates in development) NOT believe in what they develop?

I tell them that they need to code the software according the specifications.

Oh, you mean knowledge.

I tell them that believing in the software is all they have to do.

Why would you tell them that? And Jesus told people what they "have to do" to have salvation/eternal life. Believe in Him.

After I week I come back to them and ask them how they are doing.
They say, I said believing in the software is all they had to do, so that is all they have done, they believe the software will be fantastic.

So I fire them all.

With such guidance, I would recommend that you fire yourself as well.

It is really that simple.

Your comparison isn't even close to the Bible. Not in any way.

Jesus told us how to live, in detail, what is sin what is good works, what is love, what is sacrifice, what is the Kingdom.

I wonder why you left out how to be saved? Is that not on your list of what Jesus taught?

Yet some teachers think it is all about belief in Jesus, rather than because Jesus is the Son, we know what we need to do.

For salvation, it IS all about belief in Jesus. And nothing else.

Now, beyond that, believers are invited and commanded to bear fruit, be filled with the Spirit, walk by the Spirit, stop grieving and stop quenching the Spirit, keep our minds set on things above and not on things below.

Do you understand any of this?

 

[Loren T.]

2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

This verse states in very clear and plain words that condemnation is for everyone who has not believed the gospel.

The words "have not believed" is in the aorist tense; meaning believed in a point of time. Past time.

The Arminian claim that one must continue to believe in order to avoid hell (losing salvation) is refuted by this verse. If that claim were true, Paul would have written it this way:

"so that all will be condemned who do not continue to believe the truth".

So the aorist tense once again refutes the claim of Arminians.

In fact, 2 Thess 2:12 parallels both of these verses:

John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Here's how: Jn 5:24 says those who believe "will not be judged/condemned".

John 10:28 says recipients "of eternal life (believers) shall never perish".

It will be interesting and instructive to see how Arminians, if any do, will respond to this thread.

Johnny's mommy told him about Jesus when he was 4 years old.. and he genuinely believed. But for the rest of his life he lived like a child of hell... And only used the name of God as a curse word. He hated God and the gospel and taught others to do the same. According to your theology, Johnny gets a free ticket into heaven...an idea that is refuted by pretty much the whole Bible, which supposes that if a person truly believes, he will act like it to some degree or another. Your theology is silly.

 

[LightLoveHope]

I said:
"This isn't about how to get saved or how to stay saved. It's about fellowship, obviously."

Didn't you note (or follow) the context of what i said?

Are you ignoring, or even denying the reality that fellowship with the Lord requires certain things?

No, we don't, unless we study the Bible and gain knowledge.

It seems all you want to talk about is "love". Do you understand how the Bible defines love? I doubt it, from your posts.

Love is not an emotion in the biblical definition. It's not about FEELINGS, but is about ACTION.

Biblical love is patience and kindness. Those are actions, not emotions.

Do you agree?

Biblical love is Jesus and the cross. We agree, so Amen Brother.
By the way, love is the theme of scripture.
Every relationship is based on this, it is what dwells in our hearts,
unless we have denied and blocked our love out with hurt.

There is no deeper thing that to know we are loved, by the King
of Kings, purchased by His blood, an offering to the Father, a
demonstration to eternity of His eternal love and sacrifice, to go
to the lost and purchase His people from the lost, What a King
What a Lord, What a praise offering we should give to Him.

Through Jesus, therefore, let us continually offer to God a sacrifice of praise--the fruit of lips that confess his name.
And do not forget to do good and to share with others, for with such sacrifices God is pleased.
Heb 13:15-16

 

[JLB777]

Please quit lying. I've quoted John 10:28 many times, which you just ignore.


Again, please quit lying. I have explained that verse many times, but which you just continue to ignore.


Are you really ignorant of the fact that the word "abiding" cannot mean "in", since John used that word as well?

Here are 2 statements:

1. no murderer has eternal life IN him
2. no murderer has eternal life abiding in him

Those who read both statements as being EQUAL are in sad shape, because they are NOT equal.

If John meant that those who murder do NOT have eternal life IN them, he wouldn't have needed to add the word "abiding".

He would have just used #1 above to communicate that. But since he included the word "abiding", obviously he meant something else.

So, if #1 was his meaning, why would he include "abiding"? It just becomes an unnecessary word.


But John NEVER said this. That is your man-made opinion only.

And if Christians lose eternal life by hating their brothers, then Jesus couldn't have said what John recorded Him to have said in John 10:28, about recipients of eternal life never perishing.

If your man-made opinions were correct, Jesus would have had to say, instead:

"I give them eternal life, and AS LONG AS THEY DON'T HATE THEIR BROTHERS, they shall never perish"

or this:

"I give them eternal life and IF THEY DON'T HATE THEIR BROTHERS they shall never perish"

But we know what He said, and said very plainly, so that even grade school children can understand what He meant.

Because of John 10:28, we know that Christians shall never perish because of what He did ad promises.

He gives eternal life to whoever believes in Him.
John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
John 6:47 - Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.
1 John 5:13 - I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

And, just in case you want to abuse the Greek present tense,
1 John 5:11 - And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

That's as PAST TENSE as it gets.

So, on the basis of having believed in Christ, Jesus GIVES the believer eternal life.

So, John 10:28 seals the deal. Those given eternal life shall never perish.

And you simply don't believe what Jesus says.

Once again I provide verses that actually SAY what I believe and claim, unlike you and your man-made opinions.

If any of the verses I quote don't mean what I believe they mean, how come you've even attempted to explain what my verses do mean?

I sure don't have a problem explaining what the verses you quote mean.

None of the scriptures you quoted say anything about a Christian who hates his brother still having eternal life.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15



JLB