Ayn Rand and the "kindergarten of communism"

[Earatha]

I don’t know if calling it “vile” is fair. It’s wrong. She’s just wrong about some things. That doesn’t make her vile or evil, it just makes her wrong. As she said, “in a disagreement it is reality that is the arbiter.”

I will say I think she’s widely misunderstood.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I don’t know if calling it “vile” is fair. It’s wrong. She’s just wrong about some things. That doesn’t make her vile or evil, it just makes her wrong. As she said, “in a disagreement it is reality that is the arbiter.”

I will say I think she’s widely misunderstood.

I think people think she approved of the creation of power through illegitimate means. I don't think that's true though.

I think she believed that people were entitled to power, created legitimately through their own talents and abilities, and owed no one else anything.

I disagree with this....but I don't really see anything "vile" about it.

 

[RDKirk]

I think people think she approved of the creation of power through illegitimate means. I don't think that's true though.

I think she believed that people were entitled to power, created legitimately through their own talents and abilities, and owed no one else anything.

I disagree with this....but I don't really see anything "vile" about it.

Why do you disagree with that?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Why do you disagree with that?

Because unless you were raised in the wild apart from civilization....the opportunities, choices, education, means that are available to you are the result of the choices, labor, and values of your society.

I believe you have at least a minimal obligation back to that society.

Good question tho.

 

[RDKirk]

Because unless you were raised in the wild apart from civilization....the opportunities, choices, education, means that are available to you are the result of the choices, labor, and values of your society.

I believe you have at least a minimal obligation back to that society.

Good question tho.

So you agree that nobody is totally a "self-made man."

 

[Ana the Ist]

So you agree that nobody is totally a "self-made man."

Yes...for the most part.

I suppose there could be some circumstances where a person, for example, born into slavery and denied everything from society....ends up in a far greater position through his own will/abilities....and would owe society nothing.

Generally speaking though....this isn't applicable to the overwhelming majority of everyone who ever lived.

 

[durangodawood]

I don’t know if calling it “vile” is fair. It’s wrong. She’s just wrong about some things. That doesn’t make her vile or evil, it just makes her wrong. As she said, “in a disagreement it is reality that is the arbiter.”

I will say I think she’s widely misunderstood.

There were other things that made her vile, mainly in her personal life, and not all her fault. I find cults-of-personality kind of vile.

 

[FireDragon76]

It's hard to take Rand seriously as a philosopher once you realize how eclectic and selective her readings of philosophy were.

 

[Strathos]

It doesn't?

I don't agree with Rand....and I can easily come up with some rather easy arguments against her position...

But I don't see anything particularly vile about it. After all, we are not equals.

I'll bite though, what's so vile about it?

Quite a few things. Such as the view that nature is something to be subdued and destroyed, rather than respected and preserved. The view that there is no such thing as luck of circumstance or birth, and anyone who is poor, disabled, or starving only has themselves to blame, and everyone who is rich and successful only has themselves to thank for it. She claimed she would never vote for a female president under any circumstances. She was against any kind of regulation of public health hazards like smoking (ironically she died from complications from lung cancer). She supported the genocide of Native Americans because they were 'primitive' and didn't claim land ownership rights. That's just for starters.

 

[durangodawood]

Hmmm. I have thought there were more Randites here.

If only she'd made a few pious noises once in a while, like Trump.

 

[Holoman]

Religion is very much about self interest anyway. Why follow whatever religion? For the health and happiness of ones own soul.

Same could be said of atheism.