Should atheists believe in the God of christianity if...

[Ken-1122]

Not really. Many conspiracy theorists consider themselves honest but believe the craziest things.

I didn't say people who believe crazy things are dishonest, I'm saying if you ignore evidence that may cause you to question or even doubt what you want to believe, that is a form of lying IMO.

 

[Eudaimonist]

So your ultimate authority is your experience. Do you see a problem when someone else's experience completely contradicts your own?

I am the ultimate authority regarding my mental contents.

If you ask me: "what is the state capital of New York State?", I could mistakenly say "New York City", or could correct say "Albany", but whatever my answer is, the set of all statements of knowledge in my mind is for me to tell you, not for you to tell me. I have absolute knowledge regarding the contents of my knowledge because that is directly accessible to my introspection.

When you say that I really know that God exists, you are flat out mistaken. I can be mistaken about many things, such as state capitals, but not about the contents of my mind when it comes to this.

So if there are 2 contradicting experiences, they can both be wrong, one can be right, but both experiences cannot be right, as it would violate the law of non-contradiction. That is why experiences are not the absolute standard of truth.

Just to be clear, that isn't my position at all. If I believe that New York City is the capital of New York State and regard that as knowledge, I would be mistaken. However, I would not be mistaken that I believe that New York City is the capital of New York State. You would be mistaken to tell me that the truth of Albany's status as capital is something that I know "deep down". That wouldn't necessarily be the case.

God is the absolute standard of truth. Not because I say so, but because it is the truth that is not founded in me, the individual.

You are saying so. And you are mistaken. Reality is the absolute standard of truth, even a godless reality.

I do not play the game of trying to prove God exists to the rebel sinner. I call you to repent of your sins and trust in Jesus Christ.

In other words, you are not here to discuss anything and are wasting my time. You could have said so earlier when it looked like you were actually interested in having a philosophical discussion.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[DogmaHunter]

And for a lot of us, He did just that.

Or so you believe.

Also, if I were to assume that to be true, then your god-model becomes internally inconsistent.

 

[Moral Orel]

Not long ago I had an exchange with someone here where I asked him honestly what evidence he would deem sufficient for the existence of God. He stated something to the effect of watching an amputated limb regrow. I asked him if a three-day-dead corpse resurrecting back to life would work. Crickets.

No way that actually happened. No atheist ever has had nothing to say about anything!

 

[Phil 1:21]

No way that actually happened. No atheist ever has had nothing to say about anything!

 

[Ken-1122]

Not long ago I had an exchange with someone here where I asked him honestly what evidence he would deem sufficient for the existence of God. He stated something to the effect of watching an amputated limb regrow. I asked him if a three-day-dead corpse resurrecting back to life would work. Crickets.

A three-day-dead corpse resurrecting back to life would be far more convincing than an amputated limb regrowing; I wonder why he didn't say anything.

 

[jayem]

A three-day-dead corpse resurrecting back to life would be far more convincing than an amputated limb regrowing; I wonder why he didn't say anything.

Let's assume I witnessed such an extraordinary event. A person who was clinically and legally dead for 3 days--no cardiac activity, no respirations, absent brain stem reflexes, a totally flat EEG with all channels set to the highest gain, and a body temperature equilibrated to ambient conditions--had returned to life without any technological intervention. People are saying it's an act of God. I would have no alternative explanation. But l'd ask how anyone could be sure that this miraculous event was the act of their particular god apart from the thousands of gods that humans have worshipped? Could it have been the work of an unknown extraplanetary entity using advanced technology undetectable to us? Or maybe an evil, demonic agent, masquerading as a god just to be deceptive?

In the end, all god-beliefs come down to faith. Christianity is no different. Christians have to have faith that whatever leads them to believe is real, that the Bible is true and accurate, and that God and Jesus are as the Bible and their religious tradition says they are.

 

[Ken-1122]

Let's assume I witnessed such an extraordinary event. A person who was clinically and legally dead for 3 days--no cardiac activity, no respirations, absent brain stem reflexes, a totally flat EEG with all channels set to the highest gain, and a body temperature equilibrated to ambient conditions--had returned to life without any technological intervention. People are saying it's an act of God. I would have no alternative explanation. But l'd ask how anyone could be sure that this miraculous event was the act of their particular god apart from the thousands of gods that humans have worshipped? Could it have been the work of an unknown extraplanetary entity using advanced technology undetectable to us? Or maybe an evil, demonic agent, masquerading as a god just to be deceptive?

In the end, all god-beliefs come down to faith. Christianity is no different. Christians have to have faith that whatever leads them to believe is real, that the Bible is true and accurate, and that God and Jesus are as the Bible and their religious tradition says they are.

Yeah; I suspect if the person I replied to really asked a typical atheist such a question about a three-day-dead corpse to a typical atheist, he would have gotten a lot more than just "crickets".

 

[the iconoclast]

Why are you holding onto your disbelief in Krishna...?

Hey hey sir

Im curious, why do you hold onto a disbelief in salvation through Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ?

Cheers

 

[Allandavid]

Hey hey sir

Im curious, why do you hold onto a disbelief in salvation through Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ?

Cheers

For the same reason that you hold a disbelief in every other religion and god that has been invented by man...

 

[the iconoclast]

For the same reason that you hold a disbelief in every other religion and god that has been invented by man...

Hello sir

Interesting, i do not worship other gods because i have had a result with the Christian God. The experience effected me.

Seeing as you hold onto the same reason i do, what practical contact with and observation of facts or events, have you experienced with atheism?

Dont be shy, you have my full undivided attention.

Cheers sir

 

[Allandavid]

Hello sir

Interesting, i do not worship other gods because i have had a result with the Christian God. The experience effected me.

And you therefore reject all the other gods and religions that have been proposed by mankind.

So do I. And I add your god to that list. Because, as is the case with the others, NO evidence has ever been produced supporting their existence.

And no, “you’ll just have to believe me when I say I’ve had an experience” is not evidence...

 

[the iconoclast]

And you therefore reject all the other gods and religions that have been proposed by mankind.

So do I. And I add your god to that list. Because, as is the case with the others, NO evidence has ever been produced supporting their existence.

And no, “you’ll just have to believe me when I say I’ve had an experience” is not evidence...

Hey hey allan and thank you for your reply.

Seeing as you hold onto the same reason i do, what practical contact with and observation of facts or events, have you experienced with atheism?

Cheers

 

[Allandavid]

Hey hey allan and thank you for your reply.

Seeing as you hold onto the same reason i do, what practical contact with and observation of facts or events, have you experienced with atheism?

Cheers

None. Atheism isn’t a philosophy or a belief. It’s the answer to one specific question. Nor is it a ‘why’...

 

[the iconoclast]

’s the answer to one specific question

Hey hey sir

What is this specific question?

Cheers

 

[loveofourlord]

Hey hey sir

What is this specific question?

Cheers

does one believe if a god exists or not.

 

[the iconoclast]

does one believe if a god exists or not.

Hey saint

It is a pleasure to meet you. Thank you for your reply, lets be friends

 

[loveofourlord]

Hey saint

It is a pleasure to meet you. Thank you for your reply, lets be friends

maybe :> Hehe I just been listening to the debate on both sides so long that I'm kinda used to most of the answers.

From my understanding most atheist, don't see any evidence so don't believe, but don't claim there is no god.

 

[the iconoclast]

From my understanding most atheist, don't see any evidence so don't believe, but don't claim there is no god.

Hey hey

Well lets see where we go mr allan david, i think u are cool. Keep the faith saint

 

[quatona]

Hey hey allan and thank you for your reply.

Seeing as you hold onto the same reason i do, what practical contact with and observation of facts or events, have you experienced with atheism?

Cheers

Your question has it the wrong way round.
None of the observations of facts or events that I have made suggest the existence of a God - so I do not believe there is one.