Please Help Me Understand

[Madsaac]

We all know there are many poor people in our world, in our local communities, our country and globally. And we know there are many wealthy Christians in the world as well.

How is it then, if Jesus said we need and must help the poor, that many Christians do not? Many Christians in the western world have two cars or an expensive car, have jewellery, have a big TV and so on.

Is this not wrong?

Even though Christians know there are many people worse off that they do not give up their materiel possessions to help the less fortunate?

If one is to live like Jesus and to be in heaven for all eternity after death then surely it would be an easy decision to give up ones possessions for the less fortunate? However most western Christians do not, fact.

Therefore is it fair to assume that God and Jesus will judge you more harshly than non Christians for pretending to live under the guise of Jesus whilst not living like he would want you too.

Thank you

 

[Basil the Great]

Jesus' warning in Matthew should be an alert for all of us. Yes, Christians who fail to help the poor will be in for a sad surprise when they stand before God. Thanks for this very important thread.

 

[Brother Billy]

We all know there are many poor people in our world, in our local communities, our country and globally. And we know there are many wealthy Christians in the world as well.

How is it then, if Jesus said we need and must help the poor, that many Christians do not? Many Christians in the western world have two cars or an expensive car, have jewellery, have a big TV and so on.

Is this not wrong?

Even though Christians know there are many people worse off that they do not give up their materiel possessions to help the less fortunate?

If one is to live like Jesus and to be in heaven for all eternity after death then surely it would be an easy decision to give up ones possessions for the less fortunate? However most western Christians do not, fact.

Therefore is it fair to assume that God and Jesus will judge you more harshly than non Christians for pretending to live under the guise of Jesus whilst not living like he would want you too.

Thank you

 

[Tolworth John]

if Jesus said we need and must help the poor, that many Christians do not?

Two questions.
1. These well off people, how do you know they are Christian?
2. How is it you have access to their financal records to know they are not helping the poor?

Jesus commended the widows mite as an act of faith. Today many rich Christians secretly give to causes.
Just because they don't blow a trumpet or have press conferences doesn't mean they don't give.

Could we all give more? Of course, so what are you giving up?

 

[~Anastasia~]

Welcome (back) to CF.

There may be a number of reasons, but Christians get a very mixed message. Some even teach that by doing specific things God will bless them with wealth, and that God wants us to be materially wealthy.

I like some quotes I've read.

St. Basil the Great - "When someone steals another's clothes, we call them a thief. Should we not give the same name to one who could clothe the naked and does not? The bread in your cupboard belongs to the hungry; the coat unused in your closet belongs to the one who needs it; the shoes rotting in your closet belong to the one who has no shoes; the money which you hoard up belongs to the poor."

St. John Chrysostom - "The rich exist for the sake of the poor. The poor exist for the salvation of the rich.”

And again by St. John Chrysostom ...

"If you cannot find Christ in the beggar at the Church door, you will not find Him in the Chalice."

 

[Madsaac]

Two questions.
1. These well off people, how do you know they are Christian?
2. How is it you have access to their financal records to know they are not helping the poor?

Jesus commended the widows mite as an act of faith. Today many rich Christians secretly give to causes.
Just because they don't blow a trumpet or have press conferences doesn't mean they don't give.

Could we all give more? Of course, so what are you giving up?

I don't know if they are Christian but I do know there are many, many wealthy Christians. So the mere fact that these Christians are wealthy suggests they are NOT giving enough to the needy.

Surely having two TV's or two cars or the many material comforts are not as important than helping people who are starving to death.

We all know there are people in dire need of assistance but Christians still covert these material goods.

So isn't it obvious that Christians along with non Christians are turning there back on the needy. But at least non Christians are not doing it under the guise of Jesus.

And finally if Christians cannot fulfil this simple request of Jesus to give to the poor, what gives them any credibility to comment on any other 'moral' social issues.

 

[Madsaac]

Jesus' warning in Matthew should be an alert for all of us. Yes, Christians who fail to help the poor will be in for a sad surprise when they stand before God. Thanks for this very important thread.

Yes, so if Christians cannot fulfil this simple request of Jesus to give to the poor, what gives them any credibility to comment on any other 'moral' social issues.

 

[Madsaac]

Welcome (back) to CF.

There may be a number of reasons, but Christians get a very mixed message. Some even teach that by doing specific things God will bless them with wealth, and that God wants us to be materially wealthy.

I like some quotes I've read.

St. Basil the Great - "When someone steals another's clothes, we call them a thief. Should we not give the same name to one who could clothe the naked and does not? The bread in your cupboard belongs to the hungry; the coat unused in your closet belongs to the one who needs it; the shoes rotting in your closet belong to the one who has no shoes; the money which you hoard up belongs to the poor."

St. John Chrysostom - "The rich exist for the sake of the poor. The poor exist for the salvation of the rich.”

And again by St. John Chrysostom ...

View attachment 242879

"If you cannot find Christ in the beggar at the Church door, you will not find Him in the Chalice."

Yeah I think its fair to say, those Christians who think God wants us to materially wealthy instaed of helping others will probably have a hard time getting into heaven.

And anyone can say I'm sorry, please forgive me....I hope so.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Yeah I think its fair to say, those Christians who think God wants us to materially wealthy instaed of helping others will probably have a hard time getting into heaven.

And anyone can say I'm sorry, please forgive me....I hope so.

Their ultimate salvation is between themselves and God. I know He is merciful and wants to save people. I only hope they are of a mind to desire Him in the end.

By the way, having two cars is not necessarily a betrayal of Christianity. Our family has two vehicles, but we both work and at different times and locations every day, so we wouldn't be able to work if we didn't have a way to get there. I'm not much interested in wasting money on a car though - mine is 16 years old and I just hope it keeps running for some more years. I only say that because we can't always judge what we see. Though I don't hold myself up as any kind of example. I've missed almost two years of work for health issues, so I don't give much either. I volunteer to help as much as I can through Church instead, and that's not much either.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I would also say this ... it is certainly our duty to care for others. But we ought not think we should have abolished poverty. Jesus said we would always have the poor with us. But certainly it is the true nature of Christianity to help others in whatever ways we can.

 

[Not me]

Ever since I’ve been alive, I’m 61, we, Americans, Christians, and all those that have wanted to have been giving to the poor. And still there are more poor in the world than when I born. I am starting to feel giving to the poor is not the issue. It’s teaching them Christian morals and behavior so they can learn to raise them selfs out of their poverty. If for whatever reason they don’t want to learn Christian morals and behavior because of their culture or religion you leave them to their own choices to reap the consequences of their decisions. As scripture says “they are without God in this world” leave them to their own misery and poverty till they cry out to God (realize that only Christian righteousness/morals will make for prosperity that lasts) and not man to save them.

(my thoughts, because want we’re doing isn’t working)

Much love in Christ, Not me

 

[Tolworth John]

I don't know if they are Christian but I do know there are many, many wealthy Christians. So the mere fact that these Christians are wealthy suggests they are NOT giving enough to the needy.

Surely having two TV's or two cars or the many material comforts are not as important than helping people who are starving to death.

We all know there are people in dire need of assistance but Christians still covert these material goods.

So isn't it obvious that Christians along with non Christians are turning there back on the needy. But at least non Christians are not doing it under the guise of Jesus.

And finally if Christians cannot fulfil this simple request of Jesus to give to the poor, what gives them any credibility to comment on any other 'moral' social issues.

I repeat how do you know they are not giving to the poor.
Then there is the question of how much do you think other people should give to the poor?

What is of first importance, is it giving to the poor?
or
Is it to preach the gospel?

What of the states responcibility. In many places Christian charity is welcomed, so long as they don't preach the gospel.
Yes I undersatand that a starving person needs to be fed before they hear the gospel and that there is a real problem with 'rice christians'.

 

[Madsaac]

Ever since I’ve been alive, I’m 61, we, Americans, Christians, and all those that have wanted to have been giving to the poor. And still there are more poor in the world than when I born. I am starting to feel giving to the poor is not the issue. It’s teaching them Christian morals and behavior so they can learn to raise them selfs out of the poverty. If for whatever reason they don’t want to learn Christian morals and behavior because of their culture or religion you leave them to their own choices to reap the consequences of their decisions. As scripture says “they are without God in this world” leave them to their own misery and poverty till they cry out to God (realize that only Christian righteousness/morals will make for prosperity that lasts) and not man to save them.

(my thoughts, because want we’re doing isn’t working)

Much love in Christ, Not me

Jesus would want you to continue to give to the poor and by not doing so you have turned your back on Jesus and what is right and just.

Your misunderstanding of what real Christian behaviour is your choice. Not to act in this Christian way and love your neighbour will be judged and forever be damned.

 

[Madsaac]

I repeat how do you know they are not giving to the poor.
Then there is the question of how much do you think other people should give to the poor?

What is of first importance, is it giving to the poor?
or
Is it to preach the gospel?

What of the states responcibility. In many places Christian charity is welcomed, so long as they don't preach the gospel.
Yes I undersatand that a starving person needs to be fed before they hear the gospel and that there is a real problem with 'rice christians'.

I know they are not giving enough to the poor because they are still one hunderd times richer, a thousand times richer than these suffering, hungry souls.

It is a cop out to think that its more important to preach the word of God then to act it out. You know why...because its harder it give up your material possessions.

 

[Tolworth John]

It is a cop out to think that its more important to preach the word of God then to act it out.

No where did I say that.

May I sugest you spend time working with the poor and find out how hard it is to help the poor when the poor have habits that counter any help they are given.

Simple giving cash is not enough.

 

[Not me]

Jesus would want you to continue to give to the poor and by not doing so you have turned your back on Jesus and what is right and just.

Your misunderstanding of what real Christian behaviour is your choice. Not to act in this Christian way and love your neighbour will be judged and forever be damned.

If what you say is the correct understanding of what Christian behavior is according to scripture. Why did Jesus not continue to feed the people the second time they came to be fed. He sent them away hungry with the words “ you seek me not for me but for the loafs”?

I feel it it’s man doing his own opinion of what righteousness is and not what God says is righteous that is the problem. Which is, if someone doesn’t want Christ you leave them to their own devices so they might find and feel the need in them for Christ whereby they can cry out and become saved.

Much love in Christ, Not me

 

[Not me]

Double post, ooops

 

[Ken-1122]

We all know there are many poor people in our world, in our local communities, our country and globally. And we know there are many wealthy Christians in the world as well.

How is it then, if Jesus said we need and must help the poor, that many Christians do not? Many Christians in the western world have two cars or an expensive car, have jewellery, have a big TV and so on.

Is this not wrong?

Even though Christians know there are many people worse off that they do not give up their materiel possessions to help the less fortunate?

If one is to live like Jesus and to be in heaven for all eternity after death then surely it would be an easy decision to give up ones possessions for the less fortunate? However most western Christians do not, fact.

Therefore is it fair to assume that God and Jesus will judge you more harshly than non Christians for pretending to live under the guise of Jesus whilst not living like he would want you too.

Thank you

Helping the poor does not equate to giving all that you have to the poor, especially if it includes that which allows you to make more money thus allowing you to continue to help those in need. Some of the richest people in the world do the most to help the poor.

 

[Basil the Great]

Their ultimate salvation is between themselves and God. I know He is merciful and wants to save people. I only hope they are of a mind to desire Him in the end.

By the way, having two cars is not necessarily a betrayal of Christianity. Our family has two vehicles, but we both work and at different times and locations every day, so we wouldn't be able to work if we didn't have a way to get there. I'm not much interested in wasting money on a car though - mine is 16 years old and I just hope it keeps running for some more years. I only say that because we can't always judge what we see. Though I don't hold myself up as any kind of example. I've missed almost two years of work for health issues, so I don't give much either. I volunteer to help as much as I can through Church instead, and that's not much either.

Congrats, Anastasia. My car is 15 and 1/2 years old and still going strong.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Congrats, Anastasia. My car is 15 and 1/2 years old and still going strong.

That's great. Mine is a reliable model of Toyota - some report 300k miles and I'm hoping mine will last that long. I'm getting close to 200k miles. The engine does make a noise off and on but I'm thinking and hoping it's a minor part and it's been going on for 3 years. I have an ugly dent from being rear-ended at a stoplight a couple of months ago, but I just put the insurance payment toward bills. I dread the thought of having to replace it someday. Besides, I don't have to get upset when people are careless and ding it in the parking lot - which I've had them do when I'm sitting in it, lol. Good practice for being patient.

The only thing I don't like is it's not really safe IMO to travel long distances alone so I'm not able to visit family or monasteries, etc.