SDA

[stephen pollard]

We also believe that praying to the dead and bowing down before images is wrong. But the fact that over a billion Christians engage in it - does not "make it right" it just means they have not been enlightened on that Bible truth.



The idea that it only matters when you choose to ignore something in the Bible is not a compelling argument. A Bible principle is true or it is not -- and has nothing to do with "but what if it is just Stephen Pollard ignoring it or unaware of it".

I point to a rather large group of Christians (much large than "just Stephen Pollard" ) and show that their not being aware of something does not make it right but it also does not mean they are lost due to that fact alone until it is pointed out to them under conviction.

I am giving you bible truth and showing how this works out in real life.

For example James 4:17 as it applies to the obvious example above "17 Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin."



I am giving you bible truth and showing how this works out in real life.

For example James 4:17 as it applies to the obvious example above "17 Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin."



They may argue anything they wish.

This is about - a bible truth and showing how this works out in real life.

For example James 4:17 as it applies to the obvious example above "17 Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin."

The biblical facts remain:
Sin is the transgression of the law
Through the law we become conscious of sin

And yet 17 Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin."

I want to thank you, and two other sda members who, in the last few days have all stressed sins of ignorance, not being convicted of sin at times. It joins up all the dots as it were in my views on your denomination. I have been to an sda church, they seemed real nice and friendly, but all I could think was: Where is the Holy Spirit?
And now, you and others are telling me, we c an break the Ten Commandments and will still be securely saved if we are sinning without the convictor of sin showing us we are sinning, for the Holy Spirit is the convictor of sin. It always comes down to the same thing. Where is the Holy Spirit in the lives of people who can steal, bear false witness, murder, commit adultery etc, unaware they are sinning by doing so

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Stephen pollard said: ↑ Have you not met any sda members who believe heaven hinges on obeying the Ten Commandments/your justificati0on hinges on that? I have

I have as well. Here is a statement below made from a SDA who I was once in a discussion with.

The counterfeit Gospel is out there. What is the other Gospel? It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation. God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ.

EPHESIANS 2:8
[8], For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [9], Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Many do not know why God has given us his grace..

ROMANS 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

ROMANS 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith.

Many say only BELIEVE and have faith thinking that faith does away with OBEDIENCE yet true FAITH is demonstrated with the very fruit of OBEDIENCE that works by LOVE.

ROMANS 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yes, we establish the law.

ROMANS 13:8-10
[8], Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law.
[9], For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly summed up in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

What is sad about those who profess Christianity in disaobedience and lawlessness is that they not only twist scripture but seek to twist what others say abd try to give their words meaning they are not saying. The above post is another good example of spreading misinformation.

God's LAW is the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:8-11; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172.

How can you have a gospel if you do not know what the gospel is? The counterfiet gospel is the same one promoted in the Garden of Eden to EVE. It is the false gospel taught in many mainstream Churches of today that teaches you can eat of the tree of the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL [SIN] and you will not surely die, when God has commanded you not to eat of it lest you die. *GENESIS 3:1-5.

THE COUNTERFIET GOSPEL TRIES TO SEPARATE GOD'S LAW FROM THE CROSS

NO LAW >>> NO KNOWLEDGE OF SIN>>>NO NEED OF A SAVIOUR>>>NO SALVATION>>>LOST AND WILL PERISH WITHOUT THE LAW BECAUSE STILL IN SIN

* If you have no LAW then you have no KNOWLEDGE of what sin is *ROMANS 3:20.
* If you do not know what sin is then you do not know that you are a sinner in need of a Savior *MATTHEW 9:12-13
*If you do not know that you are a sinner in need of a Savior then you have no salvation *ROMANS 2:12-13
*If you have no salvation then you are lost because you are still in your sins *MATTHEW 7:22-23; HEBREWS 10:26-27; 2 TIMOTHY 3:1-5.

The wages of sin is death in all those who reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23.

If you do not know God's WORD then how can you know what the GOSPEL is when it is the WORD of GOD that is the GOSPEL?

Only GOD'S WORD is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. Jesus says all those who follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God are not following God *MATTHEW 15:3-9.

Hope this helps.

 

[BobRyan]

. It always comes down to the same thing. Where is the Holy Spirit in the lives of people who can steal, bear false witness, murder, commit adultery etc, unaware they are sinning by doing so

it always comes down to the same thing - where is the Holy Spirit in the lives of those who unwittingly break the Ten Commandments, who pray to the dead who bow down before images and promise to serve those who they represent... we say God the Holy Spirit "exists" anyway and is working on their heart, even if they break the Sabbath where God has said that for all eternity after the cross in the NEW Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23

James 4 :17 "Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin."

 

[stephen pollard]

it always comes down to the same thing - where is the Holy Spirit in the lives of those who unwittingly break the Ten Commandments, who pray to the dead who bow down before images and promise to serve those who they represent... we say God the Holy Spirit "exists" anyway and is working on their heart, even if they break the Sabbath where God has said that for all eternity after the cross in the NEW Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23

I wouldn't be so keep to look at other denominations if I was you, as seventh day adventists themselves break the ten commandments with no conviction they are doing so

 

[BobRyan]

I have as well. Here is a statement below made from a SDA who I was once in a discussion with.

Wow "a SDA who you were once in discussion with" ...

and now we have people here on this thread who are in real life "in discussion with an SDA"...

Level playing field in that regard.

But the documented Fundamental Beliefs of Seventh-day Adventists do not "change" each time you find "an SDA to discuss with" as we all know...

 

[BobRyan]

I wouldn't be so keep to look at other denominations if I was you, as seventh day adventists themselves break the ten commandments with no conviction they are doing so

A. you give no proof.
B. you seem to be making my point about James 4:17 without showing how it applies in that case.

 

[stephen pollard]

A. you give no proof.
B. you seem to be making my point about James 4:17 without showing how it applies in that case.

No proof? How many times must I tell you, I saw many people taking the Lords name in vain at AN sda church with no conviction whatsoever they were breaking the Ten Commandments. And you have now stated, if you break the Ten Commandments but are not convicted you sin by breaking them you remain saved, no risk to you at all. This backs up what two other sda members have stated here in the last few days

 

[BobRyan]

No proof? How many times must I tell you, I saw many people taking the Lords name in vain at AN sda church

Sounds a bit odd...

At this point I am willing to think I have been to more SDA churches than you but I do not find such things to be true when I go there.

 

[stephen pollard]

You could make a case for not immediately being conscious you sin by a derivative of love your neighbour for example. An unkind thought slips your mind. But to say you can be ignorant to the fact you commit sin if you lie, steal, murder, commit adultery etc ,is in my view ludicrous

 

[BobRyan]

You could make a case for not immediately being conscious you sin by a derivative of love your neighbour for example. An unkind thought slips your mind. But to say you can be ignorant to the fact you commit sin if you lie, steal, murder, commit adultery etc ,is in my view ludicrous

The examples I gave were
praying to the dead
bowing down before images and promising to serve those they represent
Sabbath breaking..

IE. breaking the Ten Commandments "he who breaks one breaks them all" James 2.

Bible details matter in that sola-scriptura testing model.

 

[stephen pollard]

Sounds a bit odd...

At this point I am willing to think I have been to more SDA churches than you but I do not find such things to be true when I go there.

Why are you surprised? If you can sin by breaking the Ten Commandments without knowing you are sinning, it is quite natural what the result will be

 

[stephen pollard]

The examples I gave were
praying to the dead
bowing down before images and promising to serve those they represent
Sabbath breaking..

IE. breaking the Ten Commandments "he who breaks one breaks them all" James 2.

Bible details matter in that sola-scriptura testing model.

I see, so the fourth commandment is not as important as some of the others?

 

[BobRyan]

I see, so the fourth commandment is not as important as some of the others?

I find your logic "illusive" just then.

 

[stephen pollard]

I find your logic "illusive" just then.

Why? You seem to be saying there is no excuse for ignorance concerning breaking some of the Ten Commandments but there is others

 

[stephen pollard]

The obvious conclusion is, those who rely on understanding what is written in ink to know which law they think they should follow, brings nowhere near the conviction of sin those have who rely on the inner witness

 

[1stcenturylady]

Actually, Mormons believe Jesus is One of His sons--not the only one.

Yes, Satan too. Jesus and Satan are brothers to them.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Although Wendell was a Millerite (And all Millerites were called "Adventists) it does not appear that he ever became a Seventh-day Adventist. (Millerites were at about 50,000 in 1844 from which 50 went on to start the Seventh-day Adventist church).

Charles Taze Russell heard a sermon in 1870 by Jonas Wendell.

Elder Jonas Wendell (December 25, 1815 – August 14, 1873) of Edinboro, Pennsylvania, was a zealous Adventist preacher following in the spirit of William Miller. Following the "Great Disappointment" Wendell experienced periods of weak faith, as did many Adventists. He eventually recovered his faith after renewing his study of Bible chronology (historic and prophetic) and began to preach extensively throughout Ohio, Pennsylvania, the Virginias, and New England By the late 1860s he had been studying the chronology of the Bible, and was encouraged by conclusions showing Christ's return would occur in either 1868 or 1873/4. In 1870 Wendell published his views in the booklet entitled The Present Truth, or Meat in Due Season concluding that the Second Advent was sure to occur in 1873.

Russell was born in 1859 long after the Millerites had disbanded and fragmented either returning to their former churches or starting new ones. Wendell was one of those who did not join Seventh-day Adventists.

So the only "connection" is William Miller.

 

[BobRyan]

So the only "connection" is William Miller.

As far as I know but Russel was never a Millerite or an SDA. So even claiming Miller is a bit of a stretch.

 

[BobRyan]

Why? You seem to be saying there is no excuse for ignorance concerning breaking some of the Ten Commandments but there is others

Rather I point to over a billion that seem to be having some excuse - as I said we do not consider that they are lost simply because they are uninformed on that point.

 

[BobRyan]

Why? You seem to be saying there is no excuse for ignorance concerning breaking some of the Ten Commandments but there is others

There are Christians who do not oppose abortion -- I never said that all of them are lost

You are straining and still not finding anything of substance to condemn