You think the Church should allow Priests and Nuns to get married?

[Chrystal-J]

Celibacy is supposed to be a calling, not forced and not a way to get a foot in the door (then corrupt) the Church.
There are other churches who do allow married preachers--and they've had their fair share of scandal. The Mormon church as an example with Warren Jeffs having multiple wives--and still going after minors.

 

[zippy2006]

Homosexuality is the problem, not celibacy.

I actually desire a little more precision with this claim. Pederasty is the disproportionate problem in the Catholic Church, and this crime is committed by homosexual clergy.

The problem with saying, "Homosexuality, not celibacy," is the fact that celibacy breeds homosexuality, as least in the presence of Catholic theology which definitively precludes the homosexual act. Yet homosexual clergy have only become a big problem in the recent century. This is because of external and internal challenges to Catholic sexual morality. I think that is the much bigger piece of the puzzle, and I think that is precisely why the Vatican has decided that men with deep-seated homosexual tendencies are unsuitable for Holy Orders. Francis has clearly upheld this decision.

The decision is prudential. It simply wasn't necessary in past ages and cultures where natural law was more perceptible.

 

[Cis.jd]

The Priest and Bishops who perpetrated these crimes were homosexual before their vows.

We have 0 proof of that, and even if you want to point fingers at homosexuality being the reason that still can also be rooted from celibacy. Now, don't get me wrong i'm not saying this is the only root for sexual deviations, but i'm just saying that it can possibly be one.

Homosexuality (regardless of pop culture) is based/rooted from a persons environment. It is influenced, either through other people or just because of their environment. Priests are normally surrounded by males during their careers and due to the ignored sex drive then whatever is in their area can potentially sexually attract them. It's like in prison. Most of the inmates where probably not homosexuals originally, but the longer they stayed and had 0 contact with the opposite sex they end up getting sexually attracted to whoever is in there.

Here is a fun fact (you probably won't believe), but I do have friends who became a priests.. now, according to him (we were still in college) that before the seminary begins, most of these studying priests are suggested to go to as much strip bars and have as much sex, beer, cigarettes they can because ones they begin the seminary, they will never be able to entertain chemical craves such as sexual desires again. In short, most lose their virginity before they enter their actual careers because it is naturally in us to experience it.

 

[AvilaSurfer]

We have 0 proof of that, and even if you want to point fingers at homosexuality being the reason that still can also be rooted from celibacy. Now, don't get me wrong i'm not saying this is the only root for sexual deviations, but i'm just saying that it can possibly be one.

Homosexuality (regardless of pop culture) is based/rooted from a persons environment. It is influenced, either through other people or just because of their environment. Priests are normally surrounded by males during their careers and due to the ignored sex drive then whatever is in their area can potentially sexually attract them. It's like in prison. Most of the inmates where probably not homosexuals originally, but the longer they stayed and had 0 contact with the opposite sex they end up getting sexually attracted to whoever is in there.

Here is a fun fact (you probably won't believe), but I do have friends who became a priests.. now, according to him (we were still in college) that before the seminary begins, most of these studying priests are suggested to go to as much strip bars and have as much sex, beer, cigarettes they can because ones they begin the seminary, they will never be able to entertain chemical craves such as sexual desires again. In short, most lose their virginity before they enter their actual careers because it is naturally in us to experience it.

That’s a lie.

 

[Gnarwhal]

celibacy breeds homosexuality

I'm not sure I buy that. If it were true, how come we don't also hear of accounts of homosexuality amongst religious orders?

Furthermore, something I've been thinking about recently is that many of the perpetrators were priests at times when homosexuality was still criminalized. Which has me wondering how many of them ended up as priests because they thought it was the only way to avoid suspicion from authorities or the mob.

That all assumes, however, that none of those priests joined the priesthood with the specific intention of subverting the Church by committing their unspeakable acts with men and boys.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

On a more practical note, how exactly would married nuns be living in convents?

Celibacy has nothing to do with any of this. I'm celibate out of my own free will and if anything celibacy only decreases ones sexual desires.

To claim either way that abstaining from intercourse will somehow increase ones sexual curiosity goes against all modern brain science.
Less exposure equals a weakened desire.

 

[Markie Boy]

I believe we should ordain married med. Catholics don't seem to see it, but mandatory celibacy adds to the problems.

1. They ALREADY do allow married priests - it's a double standard - you just have to come from a different denomination and convert.

2. We watched Spotlight and the psychologist was clear that celibacy was part of the problem. He stated how approx. half of all clergy are not celibate anyway. They act out sexually in ways that they have access to, some more normal like affairs, others in twisted and abusive ways. Then they must hide it, and like and fake it to keep their job, causing more mental damage. Because of this the psychologist said that they don't understand what sex and sexuality really is.

3. Homosexuality is part of the problem, and a bunch of "guys only" is a great place to blend in. Eventually you collect enough of them and they all have a party - this is already happening, so it's not debatable. Again - they say 15 to 50% of clergy are homosexual.

Sinners are everywhere, but good married men are much less likely to be homosexual due to their life choices. I know of at least one priest that seemed to join the priesthood because he couldn't handle the emotions of relationships.

4. Celibacy and Priesthood are both callings - and you can be called to one and not the other.

5. Peter was married, as were most of the Apostles. 1 Timothy chapter 3 and 1 Corinthians chapter 9 are clear we should allow marriage for clergy - this is so clearly factual it's amazing.

6. In the early Church priests, bishops, and even popes were married -
Pope John XVII (1003) All of his children became priests. For well over the first 1,000 years of the Church priests could marry - and the reason for the change was financial and political - nepotism - not spiritual.

Celibacy is not the problem - it's Mandatory celibacy. The fact that the Church and Catholic population can't see straight from both Sacred Scripture and Church Tradition that it wasn't supposed to be this way is disturbing. Instead they prefer the later adopted tradition over the earlier.

This does not go away until they see this, and replace the disordered men with healthy ones.

Tell me please if you disagree - how do you disagree with both Scripture and Tradition of the first 1,000 years? Man is forbidding what God did not.

 

[AvilaSurfer]

I'm not sure I buy that..

Not sure you buy it? It shouldn’t even be on the shelf with a price tag! It’s absolutely insane.

 

[Davidnic]

Here is a fun fact (you probably won't believe), but I do have friends who became a priests.. now, according to him (we were still in college) that before the seminary begins, most of these studying priests are suggested to go to as much strip bars and have as much sex, beer, cigarettes they can because ones they begin the seminary, they will never be able to entertain chemical craves such as sexual desires again. In short, most lose their virginity before they enter their actual careers because it is naturally in us to experience it.

Speaking as someone who went to the seminary and has known 100+ seminarians...your friend is lying or his formation process was seriously atypical and was emblematic of a different problem. Also, the seminary begins in College for most people, 4 years collegiate, 1 spirituality, 4 theology with the last of that being transitional deacon. In the first four years, the formation process explores if a student is ready for their future lifestyle. But premarital sex and drinking and drugs is not recommended or encouraged. You are encouraged not to live the life of a hermit and to have social skills and experiences. But what you are describing is an excessive perversion of that.

 

[Davidnic]

Tell me please if you disagree - how do you disagree with both Scripture and Tradition of the first 1,000 years? Man is forbidding what God did not.

I have no problem with the concept of a married priesthood if the Magisterium decides that is something that should happen again.

What I find demonstrably incorrect is the idea that the abuse crisis is caused by mandatory celibacy and that is a reason to do away with it.

 

[AvilaSurfer]

I have no problem with the concept of a married priesthood if the Magisterium decides that is something that should happen again.

What I find demonstrably incorrect is the idea that the abuse crisis is caused by mandatory celibacy and that is a reason to do away with it.

Exactly

 

[zippy2006]

I'm not sure I buy that. If it were true, how come we don't also hear of accounts of homosexuality amongst religious orders?

It took me awhile to see it, and I think it's a blind spot of conservative Catholicism. There is the logical case and the empirical case. The logical case is easy: you have faithful Catholic men who struggle with homosexuality. They have no choice but celibacy. Why not be a priest?

The empirical case just grows stronger and stronger. Historically I think the percentage is higher in religious, and that may be true of young priests today too since religious are more autonomous and less bound to Vatican seminary directives. Honestly I personally know many more religious who struggle with homosexuality than diocesan priests, and I also know more religious in simple vows who struggle with it than diocesan seminarians. The abuse cases among religious exist too, but it's easier to spot in stable rather than mendicant Orders, such as the infamous case of the Benedictines of Collegeville. The "mendicant" cases are usually lumped with diocesan cases, as the bishop is the most geographically proximate superior in that case.

Again, the key factor is sexual morality.

 

[Markie Boy]

Immorality is key - and something is obviously broken. However laity don't have much say in things, and the hierarchy IS the problem, so how do we expect them to fix anything?

And I do think celibacy is only part of the issue, clericalism is a biggie too. Sin of immorality I can grasp - the massive, massive cover ups I really can't.

 

[Cis.jd]

That’s a lie.

What exactly is a lie?

The fact of the matter is, it is scientific fact that we humans are naturally made this way. This God's intended design for us, and to suppress it is going against his design which is why their is this mental break going on with the majority of priests and nuns.

Even in our real world, whenever a certain tool, program or anything that is designed has something interfering with anything that allows it to operate, it breaks or malfunctions. There is nothing impure or sinful to engage in sexual relationships with the opposite gender with in marriage, because it is God's design. In terms of science, sexual intercourses releases chemicals helpful to the brain itself that helps relieve the person from various forms of negative stress emotionally, mentally and physically.

You can make the argument about celibacy not being the only root; i agree, there are other factors that can lead someone to homosexuality and pedophilia.. nevertheless it is all environmentally and life style caused.

 

[zippy2006]

The fact of the matter is, it is scientific fact that we humans are naturally made this way. This God's intended design for us, and to suppress it is going against his design which is why their is this mental break going on with the majority of priests and nuns.

You identify as Catholic. Have you ever heard of Jesus? You know... God incarnate? ...A celibate man?

 

[Davidnic]

You identify as Catholic. Have you ever heard of Jesus? You know... God incarnate? ...A celibate man?

And Mary.

 

[AvilaSurfer]

What exactly is a lie?

The fact of the matter is, it is scientific fact that we humans are naturally made this way. This God's intended design for us, and to suppress it is going against his design which is why their is this mental break going on with the majority of priests and nuns.

Even in our real world, whenever a certain tool, program or anything that is designed has something interfering with anything that allows it to operate, it breaks or malfunctions. There is nothing impure or sinful to engage in sexual relationships with the opposite gender with in marriage, because it is God's design. In terms of science, sexual intercourses releases chemicals helpful to the brain itself that helps relieve the person from various forms of negative stress emotionally, mentally and physically.

You can make the argument about celibacy not being the only root; i agree, there are other factors that can lead someone to homosexuality and pedophilia.. nevertheless it is all environmentally and life style caused.

I’m sorry but I just can’t take these posts seriously. Years ago I would make a comment about meds or upbringing or intelligence, but I kept getting warned and banned. So I’ll just leave it at can’t take you seriously. Have a day.

 

[Markie Boy]

You identify as Catholic. Have you ever heard of Jesus? You know... God incarnate? ...A celibate man?

Wow - I'd say not called for. The Catholic Church already ordains married men. And scripture is clear as a bell that we should allow it too - 1 Timothy ch. 3 & 1 Corinthians ch 9?

To challenge someone's identifying as Catholic on this basis is wrong. Does anyone believe the Church got it all wrong for the first 1,000 years and finally fixed it when the implemented mandatory celibacy in the 12th century?

 

[Davidnic]

He wasn't responding to the concept of ordination but that celibacy was unnatural.

 

[Cis.jd]

I’m sorry but I just can’t take these posts seriously. Years ago I would make a comment about meds or upbringing or intelligence, but I kept getting warned and banned. So I’ll just leave it at can’t take you seriously. Have a day.

You can say/express whatever opinion you want, the way you want. I don't flag or report. I don't view things on just a religious level but i also take in practicality and science in concern. I just can't base views on religious reasons with out a rational behind it.