You think the Church should allow Priests and Nuns to get married?

[Cis.jd]

This is on the topic of the frequent sex scandals that the church is facing. Lets all be honest, these news reports are horrific and it is a very bad stain on the church, especially in this generation.

My view is that (and i am no scientist or psychologist) I think that the reason why child abuse and pedophilia has been happening is because priests and nuns have been suppressing a natural need. Sexual relationships. The intimacy between a man and a woman.

The fact is, whether you believe it or not, sex is a natural thing and it is part of how we are created. Sure, we use examples of Mary and Jesus, as how we can live our lives with out, but we are not her.. she is different.

I think that being unable to express someones sexuality can mess up a person brain because of all the hormones and natural chemicals are just running a muck which is probably why priests and nuns end up committing these things (which are not psychologically normal).

Do you agree? What is your view/opinion as to why there are so many priests and nun child abuse reports?

 

[TuxAme]

No, priests don't need to marry, and nuns and male religious especially don't need to marry. They can't. How would a consecrated religious live out the married life from a convent or abbey? Their vocation necessarily calls for celibacy.

Marriage isn't a bandaid that's going to solve the abuse crises. Secular leaders carry out the same abuse just as often as religious leaders, and marriage is at least an option for them, even if they aren't already married or in a relationship. Celibacy isn't the problem and marriage isn't the solution.

 

[Michie]

If the op has been keeping up with all that is reported, there is a big homosexuality issue as well. From what I have read, and I've read a lot, that seems to be the root of the problem. Not sure how marriage would help. Let's face it, celibacy is not forced. All religious volunteered for it. And there is a long period of discernment. Even after all that, the person can leave if it becomes unbearable. Let's not make excuses for sexual abuse. There is no excuse.

 

[Gnarwhal]

Homosexuality is the problem, not celibacy.

 

[Rhamiel]

Your reaction seems like one many people are having

Any time a minor is abused it is a horrible crime and a sin. You described this as not psychologically normal but most of the abuse is of teenagers.
If you read about sexual abuse in public schools, foster homes, and among teen actors and models in the entertainment industry you see as far as abusers go this is sadly normal and not an issue that is fixed by marriage

Remove the homosexual cabal, higher standards for entering the seminary, those are two ways to fix this

 

[AvilaSurfer]

No

 

[Paidiske]

OP, I found this interesting, and thought you might, too: https://www.smh.com.au/national/we-...ml?ref=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_source=rss_feed

Fwiw, I don't believe celibacy is the problem that caused the abuse crisis (I think we need to remember that abuse is as much a matter of power as it is of sex), but it's interesting to follow the discussion.

 

[The Grouch]

I think we need to be carefull when we offer and consider "solutions"

we need to discern and make sure that these apparent solutions to our problems are not at the price of apostacy from the truth


CCC 675
Before Christ's second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers.574 The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth575 will unveil the "mystery of iniquity" in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.576

 

[Cis.jd]

I do think celibacy is the problem. Lets be honest here, expressing sexuality is part of our nature. God created us that way; that is why hormones, reproductive organs, and sexual attraction exist. Is celibacy the only root for pedophilia and child abuse, no? But these religious heads are going crazy because of something and since these are all sexual related crimes then it's obvious that all their genes, hormones and biological chemicals are running a muck.

 

[AvilaSurfer]

If celibacy was the problem, there would be no married or sexually active child molesters. It’s not the problem.

 

[Davidnic]

I do think celibacy is the problem. Lets be honest here, expressing sexuality is part of our nature. God created us that way; that is why hormones, reproductive organs, and sexual attraction exist. Is celibacy the only root for pedophilia and child abuse, no? But these religious heads are going crazy because of something and since these are all sexual related crimes then it's obvious that all their genes, hormones and biological chemicals are running a muck.

If it was the problem most abusers nationwide would not be married, or in consenting sexual relationships and outside the Church (75% according to the Child advocacy center basing their data on multiple studies).

Abuse in the American Public School system is on par and in many metrics higher than the Catholic Church (see the 2004 department of education report and follow-ups). None of this excuses abuse in the Church but it points clearly to the fact that it is not about Celibacy. Abuse is not greater in the Catholic Church...you just hear about it more. Studies show the same rough percentages in all groups with access to children when you adjust it to account for the size of institutions with access.

Most of the abuse in the Church is older male to upper teenage male. The largest factor that has been exposed, but not commented on much publicly, is that homosexuality has been the largest quantifiable factor. So much depends on how you are grouping the abuse. You need to look at the ages and the access and the sexuality of offenders. The stark difference in abuse in the Catholic Church is that the rate of homosexual abuse is higher than the average rate of homosexual abuse outside the Church. This has been born out by the recent grand jury reports. The only issue that it seems celibacy is related to is shown in the age of most complaints. In the recent GJ reports when you break them down, you see that abuse in the Church has dropped since 1990. And prior to that celibacy served as a beard for many offenders who would otherwise have been questioned about their marital status and had access to children vastly restricted. The Church has two issues..abuse and coverup. Both are serious and need to be dealt with through relentless vigor to root out the problems. But we can not misidentify the root causes.

People like to make celibacy an issue because it fits with how our society promotes one of the core parts of the contraceptive mindset...that people can not control sexual urges or master them so we need to indulge them as our driver.

75% of child sex abusers are married or have regular legal sex. But they still abuse children. It is not a matter of they are restricting their urges. It is a matter of deviancy. It is not some pressure keg of pent-up urges that turn a person into a molester. It is that a person is a molester and indulges urges.

 

[Rhamiel]

I do think celibacy is the problem. Lets be honest here, expressing sexuality is part of our nature. God created us that way; that is why hormones, reproductive organs, and sexual attraction exist. Is celibacy the only root for pedophilia and child abuse, no? But these religious heads are going crazy because of something and since these are all sexual related crimes then it's obvious that all their genes, hormones and biological chemicals are running a muck.

Then how do you explain the number of abused children in Protestant denominations where the clergy can get married? The numbers of abusive clergy is about the same percentage across the denominations

I mean we live in an age of Tinder and Grinder apps are available for smartphones, also in most cities of any size there are multiple “escort” agencies and disreputable massage parlors. There are also low tech ways, the priest could just dress in normal clothes and go to a bar in the next town over and try to hook up with someone, this is not just “no sex makes people weird”

I do agree with you that many people would not do well without sex, most people are not called to become priests, monks, or nuns. Most people would not do well being shot at on a regular basis either, not everyone should be army infinity, and those who want to be should be screened for psychological fitness, trained well, and removed from the program if their superiors see evidence that the candidate can not fulfill their duties, same with priests

 

[Gnarwhal]

If celibacy was the problem, there would be no married or sexually active child molesters. It’s not the problem.

Not to mention if celibacy was the problem, the number of priests who would have committed the offense would be far higher. All [Latin-Rite] Catholic priests are celibate, not all are homosexual.

The problem is with those who are homosexual.

And like @Rhamiel pointed out, the reverse also defeats the logic of the OP: there are plenty of married sexual abuse offenders, religious or not.

 

[The Grouch]

We know what the problem is and indeed what the solution to the problem is. There is no need of head scratching

We can say that the problem is unmarried clergy or that the world is so sexualized that its bound to have an effect on human beings from all walks of life but neither of these gets to the root of the actual problem. In fact one is part of the problem and the other one result of the problem.

The problem is a spiritual problem we have been traveling down a road that is leading us away from God and God is allowing these crisis' to wake us up and call us back to him

We have been thinking all wrong trying to evangalise to the world by chasing after the world. These spiritual chastisments are occuring precisely because of the thinking that we need to update the church to be more appealing to the people of today which is in effect causing us to be influenced by the world more and more while the world is being less and less influenced by us

Our thinking has been entirely wrong the direction of the church has been entirely wrong

As GK Chrsterton says people will say you can not put the clock back.. but if the clock is wrong that is exactly what you need to do.

Again if two men have been traveling down the wrong road its no good saying we have come too far to turn back. The quicker we turn back the sooner we will be closer to our destination and that is exactly what we need to do

So thats the problem, we have left jerusalem and been on the road a good while and suddenly we have become confused and are starting to ask were our lord is? The sooner we realise we have left Jesus behind the sooner we can start to head back.

When we get back and we ask why our lord why didnt u come with us we will get the response "didnt you know i must be about my fathers business" because we have NOT been about our fathers business.

So this is the problem and while we ourselves can do a little bit by going back to the old ways recieving kneeling and on the tongue going to the latin mass instead of the novus ordo praying the rosary learning the faith reintroducing catechisis doing penance and sacrafice, boldly sharing the truth of the gospel with others and following the instructions of fatima. doing these things will reduce the magnitude of the spiritual chastisments but it wont stop them. They wont stop until the church herself turns back and humbles herself before God and in obedience to heaven consecrates russia to the immaculate heart, that part we can not do but we can pray for it, we can request it. All the other smaller but yet still extremely powerfull things we can do

So thats the solution and our small part we can play in that solution... there is NO OTHER WAY and the quicker we realise it the sooner we can get on with what we can do to play our small yet significant part in the restoration of the church and the salvation of the world

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

I do think celibacy is the problem. Lets be honest here, expressing sexuality is part of our nature. God created us that way; that is why hormones, reproductive organs, and sexual attraction exist. Is celibacy the only root for pedophilia and child abuse, no? But these religious heads are going crazy because of something and since these are all sexual related crimes then it's obvious that all their genes, hormones and biological chemicals are running a muck.

Celibacy is NOT the root to pedophilia. Your being dishonest in stating that. The Priest and Bishops who perpetrated these crimes were homosexual before their vows.

It was they alone who decided it was ok to take their vows then try to disrupt and change the priesthood from within.

 

[Paidiske]

I'm puzzled by the repeated claim that this is all about homosexuality when a significant proportion of the victims were girls?

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

I can give an example. Gay activist Dan Savage coined the term monogamish, which means being married but playing on the side. He speaks of opening the relationship to others sexually.

The thing ils that he married his partner and after a bit he decided he wanted to hook up with other men, so he and his husband decided on an open relationship with the occasional threeway.

He then went on a crusade in the media on how monogamy is unrealistic and that humans especially gay males are not designed to remain monogamous.

It seems to assuage his guilt he decided to preach the idea that monogamy is unnatural .


To say celibacy leads to pedophilia is very similar to what Dan Savage is doing. Making excuses for his/their behavior .

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

I'm puzzled by the repeated claim that this is all about homosexuality when a significant proportion of the victims were girls?

The vast majority were teen males.

 

[Michie]

Or seminarians.

The vast majority were teen males.

 

[zippy2006]

I'm puzzled by the repeated claim that this is all about homosexuality when a significant proportion of the victims were girls?

The question is complicated but females account for only 20% of victims.

I do think celibacy is the problem. Lets be honest here, expressing sexuality is part of our nature. God created us that way; that is why hormones, reproductive organs, and sexual attraction exist. Is celibacy the only root for pedophilia and child abuse, no? But these religious heads are going crazy because of something and since these are all sexual related crimes then it's obvious that all their genes, hormones and biological chemicals are running a muck.

Lots of really good objections have already been made. Here's another: celibacy isn't uniquely male, Roman, or even Catholic. All Catholic and Orthodox monks and nuns are celibate. All bishops with valid Orders are celibate. Many monks and nuns from religious traditions all over the world are celibate. There are even entire religions which are celibate (and thus short-lived, such as the Shakers). The celibacy argument ends up being cultural (and religious) narcissism.