Explain matthew 7:21-23

[zoidar]

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

I sounds weird if people who cast out demons with the Holy Spirit might still not be saved. What does Jesus mean by all this?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

I sounds weird if people who cast out demons with the Holy Spirit might still not be saved. What does Jesus mean by all this?

You will notice that it is they who say these things and they are using their great works for God to justify themselves at the judgment. Whether they did actually prophesy, or cast out demons, or did other miracles is open to question.

The principle is that doing good works is what we are required to do and once we do them, we still remain unprofitable servants.

What is missing in this scenario is that trusting in Jesus dying on the cross for them for justification is paramount. The first step in genuine acknowledgement of the Lordship of Christ is to lean on and trust in the finished work of Christ on the cross. Anyone can say that Jesus is Lord, without Him being truly their Lord. Anyone can use the Name of Jesus to promote their grand works so that people will look up to them and praise them.

The true worker of miracles, speaker of prophecy, and deliverance ministry will always acknowledge that their success is due to Jesus alone, and will glorify Him. When they stand before God in the judgment, they will leave their good works behind and stand only in the righteousness of Christ.

Notice that it is "we" not Jesus who is emphasised in this reference. Those who love Jesus and who are genuinely are His servants will have no fears about this reference.

 

[zoidar]

You will notice that it is they who say these things and they are using their great works for God to justify themselves at the judgment. Whether they did actually prophesy, or cast out demons, or did other miracles is open to question.

This is a good point. They are relying on their own effort to be saved and not on God's mercy. It's likely like you say, they believe they cast out demons and believe that they prophesied. Sometimes Christians believe they prophesize when I really doubt it's from God the Holy Spirit.

 

[JIMINZ]

I sounds weird if people who cast out demons with the Holy Spirit might still not be saved. What does Jesus mean by all this?

.
1) These verses are about the Jews.
2) Look at who Jesus was addressing.
3) Was Jesus speaking to Christians?

Mat. 7:22
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

This verse by itself is the most common reason people believe that these verses are about Christians, using the same statements (Who but a Christian could Jesus be speaking of).

Before you go any further, stop, now ask yourself, what would the purpose be, for Jesus to say such things to the Jewish people of that particular Generation?

Is there any good reason you can think of?

OK, now look at this, and take good notice of who Jesus is addressing.

Mat. 12:24
But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.

Mat 12:27
And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.

Luke 11:15
But some of them said, He casteth out devils through Beelzebub the chief of the devils.

Luke 11:19
And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges.

Like I said when I began.

1) These verses are about the Jews.
2) Look at who Jesus was addressing.
3) Was Jesus speaking to Christians?

The assumption which has always been made is, the Casting out of Demons in (Mt. 7:22) could only be referring to Christians, therefore it has to be about Christians that are being refused entrance into the Kingdom Of Heaven.

Which must mean, Christians can lose their Salvation.

Many will disagree with what I have just shown you, but ask yourself.

1) Why would Jesus say these things to the Jewish People including the Pharisees?

2) Why with everything Jesus taught the Disciples, would He never mention such an eventuality to them, about what could befall a Christian Believer?

Everything Christians believe about these verses is, Assumption, based solely
on what is said in Mt. 7:22

 

[John Bowen]

" Thy kingdom come thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven " To enter Heaven you have to follow the teachings of Jesus , you have to look at the beam in your eye ( ego) be as little children ( they have a beginners mind they also have innocence "inner sense " what is of God and not of ) You have to let your eye be single come apart from black and white thinking.Put on the wedding garment "let this mind be in you that was in Jesus Christ " , Paul and many more things that Jesus told us.the narrow way instead of what most people are following the broad way.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

This is a good point. They are relying on their own effort to be saved and not on God's mercy. It's likely like you say, they believe they cast out demons and believe that they prophesied. Sometimes Christians believe they prophesize when I really doubt it's from God the Holy Spirit.

This is where the Scripture points out that out of the heart the mouth speaks, so that those things spoken from a good heart will be genuine.

 

[Love &Forgiveness]

They are using Jesus to promote themselves. They are false teachers using Jesus for financial gain, power, fame, influence over others to get praise, money, sex, etc... They want people to bow down to them. They believe they are saving themselves through their actions, not through Faith which results in Good works.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

They are using Jesus to promote themselves. They are false teachers using Jesus for financial gain, power, fame, influence over others to get praise, money, sex, etc... They want people to bow down to them. They believe they are saving themselves through their actions, not through Faith which results in Good works.

If that is what they are doing, it shows that their hearts are not right. A person with a good heart demonstrates 1 Corinthians 13 and Galatians 5 (fruit of the Spirit) in his attitudes and conduct. He seeks to glorify Christ over himself. If he wants to lead others, he becomes their servant. He puts his own interests aside, and seeks to follow Jesus. This means that if he uses the gifts of the Spirit, he is using them from a good heart, wishing to bring glory to Jesus and souls to salvation in Christ. This means that he not only says that Jesus is Lord, but he demonstrates the Lordship of Christ in his conduct and his words.

 

[HTacianas]

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

I sounds weird if people who cast out demons with the Holy Spirit might still not be saved. What does Jesus mean by all this?

There is nothing in that to suggest they are not "saved". They are baptized Christians who didn't do the things they were commanded to do. Contrast those with Mattew 25:33-46.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

We need to remember that Jesus was speaking to unconverted Jews at the time and not born again Christians. And the context was His warning to look out for false prophets. He said that they came in sheep's clothing but inwardly they are vicious wolves. He then says that a bad tree will not produce good fruit, so by their fruit we shall know them.

A genuinely born again believer will show the fruit of the Spirit in his conduct and words, he will also demonstrate the principles of 1 Corinthians 13 (as I said previously). As we fellowship with the Lord in prayer and in His word, we learn to recognise the spirit of people. We can recognise a good spirit that shows the love of Christ, and a bad spirit that the love of Christ does not seem to shine through.

The Holy Spirit in us gives us a red, amber or green light in ourselves when encountering someone calling themselves a Christian believer. Jesus called the Pharisees hypocrites because they demanded obedience to the Law, but they did not demonstrate the same obedience themselves. But a true believer will always match his words with his conduct. The best ones to know will be his wife and children.

There is a difference between a person having the indwelling Holy Spirit and someone having a religious spirit. A fellow elder once gave me a list of criticisms of me after a service. He sounded very plausible in what he said, but I felt depressed and put down. I lost my peace. That gave me the amber light of caution. On my way home, I stopped and asked the Lord whether the criticism was from Him. He said, "Nope!" The depression lifted and I went on my way rejoicing. This elder was a very respected elder in the church, but I discovered that there was more of a religious spirit in him than the Holy Spirit.

But I am sure that every humble believer who loves Jesus and wants just to be a servant, faithfully doing His will, maybe not perfectly, but with a good heart, will never be confronted with Jesus saying He never knew him.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

There is nothing in that to suggest they are not "saved". They are baptized Christians who didn't do the things they were commanded to do. Contrast those with Mattew 25:33-46.

It will be pretty difficult to judge between someone with a genuine heart for the Lord and someone else with just a religious spirit. Actually, John Bunyan's "Pilgrims Progress" is a very good book on the different types of religious people - those who came through the narrow gate, and those who came over the wall. There were some very plausible types who got all the way to the gates of the Celestial City but were turned away. It is a good book of wisdom for any Christian believer.

 

[Hazelelponi]

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

I sounds weird if people who cast out demons with the Holy Spirit might still not be saved. What does Jesus mean by all this?

Have you ever seen these television preachers where they do this or that purported miracle (faked) to scam people out of their money?

This verse is for those people, although it can fit many different types.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Have you ever seen these television preachers where they do this or that purported miracle (faked) to scam people out of their money?

This verse is for those people.

Maybe. But unless you have xray vision, you may not be able to see into their hearts to see if they are genuine and sincere or not. I don't think you can generalise, because when you point the finger at someone, there are three fingers pointing back at you. Jesus said that by the measure you judge others, He will use the same measure to judge you. How will you stand up to the searchlight of God? That's why I always give people the benefit of the doubt, because I wouldn't like the search light of God to light up my life too much. Because if He did, He would see nothing good in me!

 

[Hazelelponi]

Maybe. But unless you have xray vision, you may not be able to see into their hearts to see if they are genuine and sincere or not. I don't think you can generalise, because when you point the finger at someone, there are three fingers pointing back at you. Jesus said that by the measure you judge others, He will use the same measure to judge you. How will you stand up to the searchlight of God? That's why I always give people the benefit of the doubt, because I wouldn't like the search light of God to light up my life too much. Because if He did, He would see nothing good in me!

There have been many who it's been found out were fake, in our lifetimes.

If I did the same things, faking miracles to scam people out of their cash, then I would expect God to turn His back on me if I tried to point out all those I "saved", and all the things I did.

So yeah, when I mention those people on tv who fake miracles, I don't see that as a generalization OR a judgment I might get caught up in.

We are supposed to use discernment...

 

[Dave L]

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

I sounds weird if people who cast out demons with the Holy Spirit might still not be saved. What does Jesus mean by all this?

The name of Jesus alone casts out demons. Any exorcist using it can become successful. All prophecy today is false since the office of the prophet expired with the Apostle John and his Revelation. So this is a good indicator of whom Jesus speaks of. Lots of the "miracle" healings are psychosomatic cures based on confessing the sin that caused the illness. Take a look around, it's all happening now.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

There have been many who it's been found out were fake, in our lifetimes.

If I did the same things, faking miracles to scam people out of their cash, then I would expect God to turn His back on me if I tried to point out all those I "saved", and all the things I did.

So yeah, when I mention those people on tv who fake miracles, I don't see that as a generalization OR a judgment I might get caught up in.

You'd better not name anyone, without substantive evidence that they are in fact false, just in case you end up facing a judge being sued for slander.

 

[Hazelelponi]

You'd better not name anyone, without substantive evidence that they are in fact false, just in case you end up facing a judge being sued for slander.

Lol..

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Lol..

Just winding you up.
I agree that there are some TV preachers who are bringing the TV ministry into disrepute with their antics. But there are others who are faithfully preaching the gospel and not making claims to power they may not have.

 

[Dave L]

You'd better not name anyone, without substantive evidence that they are in fact false, just in case you end up facing a judge being sued for slander.

That would be a good test since "Christians" are not supposed to sue Christians. It would expose any who go to law as frauds.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Just winding you up.
I agree that there are some TV preachers who are bringing the TV ministry into disrepute with their antics. But there are others who are faithfully preaching the gospel and not making claims to power they may not have.

Charles Stanley is one who teaches on tv but doesn't do the whole miracle thing.. I like him and periodically watch him.

But clearly I wasn't talking about all the tv teachers, but rather trying to make an example of something we all know about because its been a phenomenon in our day, fake preachers and their miracles.

Most who were outed back in the 80's and 90's dropped off into obscurity, but others came back like Peter Popoff - back fleecing poor black people this time, and making millions upon millions once again.