Explain matthew 7:21-23

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Charles Stanley is one who teaches on tv but doesn't do the whole miracle thing.. I like him and periodically watch him.

But clearly I wasn't talking about all the tv teachers, but rather trying to make an example of something we all know about because its been a phenomenon in our day, fake preachers and their miracles.

Most who were outed back in the 80's and 90's dropped off into obscurity, but others came back like Peter Popoff - back fleecing poor black people this time, and making millions upon millions once again.

I was going to name Dr Stanley so I'm glad you did.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

That would be a good test since "Christians" are not supposed to sue Christians. It would expose any who go to law as frauds.

Quite so!

 

[redleghunter]

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

I sounds weird if people who cast out demons with the Holy Spirit might still not be saved. What does Jesus mean by all this?

The text does not indicate those who cast out demons did so with the Holy Spirit.

 

[redleghunter]

What is missing in this scenario is that trusting in Jesus dying on the cross for them for justification is paramount.

Amen and notice in bold what is going on here:

Matthew 7: NASB
15“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16“You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17“So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18“A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19“Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20“So then, you will know them by their fruits.

21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22“Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

As you mention the focus is on what 'they did' and not the Finished Work of Christ Jesus. I will also note the previous verses 15-20 involve false teachers. We should consider that context as well.

 

[Danthemailman]

I'll never forget, prior to my conversion several years ago, I read Matthew 7:22 and thought to myself, wow! These many people accomplished all of that, "prophesied in His name, cast out demons, and did many wonderful works" but that still was not "good enough?" Then I thought to myself at that time, how am I going to "top that" and be "good enough?"

Such is the mindset of someone who believes that salvation is by works.

Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

These many people (unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved. *Seeking salvation by works is not the will of the Father.

John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. These many people were not true converts.

Without faith it's impossible to please God no matter how many alleged wonderful works that these many people set out to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to receive salvation based on works. Jesus referred to them as WORKERS OF INIQUITY/LAWLESSNESS! They were still in their sins. There are false prophets who prophecy in the name of Jesus and even make false prophecies.

Also, Satan may grant the power to one of his agents to cast out demons from another of his agents in order to gain attention and loyalty from an audience for his own evil agenda. False teachers and false prophets have long demonstrated supernatural power granted by Satan, including the power to control the demonic realm. The enemy may use this deception to in order to win an audience for his claims.

In Matthew 10:1, we also see that Jesus gave His 12 disciples power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. This would include Judas Iscariot, yet Jesus referred to Judas Iscariot as an unbelieving, unclean devil who would betray Him! (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11).

Apparently, Judas believed that Jesus' name has the power to cast out demons but did not truly believe in His name (John 1:12) and become a child of God, but instead was the son of perdition (John 17:12).

 

[Eloy Craft]

God gives gifts for the benefit of other's not the benefit of the one who receives it. God has given less than holy men gifts so as to benefit those who will become more holy because of the gift. It's easy to think one is special if God gives a gift to them but it's not so. If one receives a gift they should know it wasn't for them but for the Church. Why would anyone be lifted up because of something they were given? Something they didn't merit. But many people think they got a gift from God because they desreve it somehow.

 

[Kaon]

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

I sounds weird if people who cast out demons with the Holy Spirit might still not be saved. What does Jesus mean by all this?

There were people in that very day that cast out demons, and many people did it based on the power of Solomon's name, as well as other names of renown.

Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth. And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so. Acts 19:13-14.
​

But, what happened to them? Some demons they had authority over - based on magical mechanics. But, a particular entity was a bit too much for their veneer of exorcism in the "right" name:

And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are you? And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded. Acts 19:15-16.
​

These exorcisms of a false authority still happen to this day.


Another aspect of these verses is Christ speaking about the strong delusion - in which deluded persons believe they actually worship the Most High God through the Redeemer, but never actually do the things He says (or, even worse, lack the faith to try to do what He says.) This is the meat of the meaning of the verses. There are many delusions and distractions that will separate people from the Most High God by consequence.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Amen and notice in bold what is going on here:

Matthew 7: NASB
15“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16“You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17“So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18“A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19“Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20“So then, you will know them by their fruits.

21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22“Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

As you mention the focus is on what 'they did' and not the Finished Work of Christ Jesus. I will also note the previous verses 15-20 involve false teachers. We should consider that context as well.

Because Jesus was speaking about false prophets in the Old Testament perspective, one needs to go back and see what the Bible describes as false prophets. From my reading of that description, false prophets are the ones who influence people away from being faithful to God, to go after other gods, and to indulge in the lusts of the flesh and still believe that they will be okay and not suffer the consequences of it. "False teachers" can be description of those who support the teaching of the false cults that are existent in our religious societies. These are the ones who don't believe in the divinity of Christ, who believe in a mythical lost tribe of Israel, golden plates, silly theories about the date of the second coming, compliance with a set of rules or laws mixed with lip service to Christ.

But anyone who preaches the simple gospel of Christ, that we are justified by the finished work of Christ on the cross, through our faith and trust in Him, is never a false teacher

Just because a guy gets up and preaches the gospel in a showmanship way, or offers to pray for sick people and cast out demons, speaks in tongues, doesn't mean that he is a false teacher, and it doesn't mean that the prophet who uses his gift to strengthen faith in Christ, even if he makes a few mistakes in the timing of a predictive prophecy, doesn't mean that he is a false prophet. Joel could have been accused of being a false prophet because it took 800 years for his prophecy to come to pass.

But false prophets and teachers are those who judge and condemn other members of the body of Christ who have different practices and theologies than them False teachers are ones who teach sin-consciousness and ignore that believers have been given the righteousness of Christ. They are false when they say that God does not heal today, and that the gifts have ceased, and they falsely label those who advocate the present use of the gifts as false.

So, when it comes to pointing the finger, just be aware that three fingers are pointing back at you. If you are trying to take the speck of false teaching out of your Christian brother's eye, just make sure that there is not a bigger bit of wood in your own.

By the way, when you end up standing before God in the judgment, and He asks you, "Why should I let you into My heaven?" What reply are you going to give Him?

 

[dreadnought]

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

I sounds weird if people who cast out demons with the Holy Spirit might still not be saved. What does Jesus mean by all this?

The gate to heaven is wide open. Only our sin prevents our entrance.

 

[redleghunter]

Because Jesus was speaking about false prophets in the Old Testament perspective, one needs to go back and see what the Bible describes as false prophets. From my reading of that description, false prophets are the ones who influence people away from being faithful to God, to go after other gods, and to indulge in the lusts of the flesh and still believe that they will be okay and not suffer the consequences of it. "False teachers" can be description of those who support the teaching of the false cults that are existent in our religious societies. These are the ones who don't believe in the divinity of Christ, who believe in a mythical lost tribe of Israel, golden plates, silly theories about the date of the second coming, compliance with a set of rules or laws mixed with lip service to Christ.

But anyone who preaches the simple gospel of Christ, that we are justified by the finished work of Christ on the cross, through our faith and trust in Him, is never a false teacher

Just because a guy gets up and preaches the gospel in a showmanship way, or offers to pray for sick people and cast out demons, speaks in tongues, doesn't mean that he is a false teacher, and it doesn't mean that the prophet who uses his gift to strengthen faith in Christ, even if he makes a few mistakes in the timing of a predictive prophecy, doesn't mean that he is a false prophet. Joel could have been accused of being a false prophet because it took 800 years for his prophecy to come to pass.

But false prophets and teachers are those who judge and condemn other members of the body of Christ who have different practices and theologies than them False teachers are ones who teach sin-consciousness and ignore that believers have been given the righteousness of Christ. They are false when they say that God does not heal today, and that the gifts have ceased, and they falsely label those who advocate the present use of the gifts as false.

So, when it comes to pointing the finger, just be aware that three fingers are pointing back at you. If you are trying to take the speck of false teaching out of your Christian brother's eye, just make sure that there is not a bigger bit of wood in your own.

By the way, when you end up standing before God in the judgment, and He asks you, "Why should I let you into My heaven?" What reply are you going to give Him?

I have no idea what elicited that response.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I have no idea what elicited that response.

I just wanted to ensure that the correct Biblical description of a false prophet and teacher instead of the usual tripe accusing healing ministries and TV evangelists which actually don't fit the Biblical definition.

 

[redleghunter]

I just wanted to ensure that the correct Biblical description of a false prophet and teacher instead of the usual tripe accusing healing ministries and TV evangelists which actually don't fit the Biblical definition.

Thanks for the explanation but what did I write which elicited your response directed at me?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Thanks for the explanation but what did I write which elicited your response directed at me?

Just to clear things up, who do you define as false teachers?

 

[redleghunter]

Just to clear things up, who do you define as false teachers?

Just to clear things up Brother all I did was quote Scriptures and indicate the context include false teachers. I then bolded the portions of the OP quoted Scriptures showing those Christ never knew appealed to Him based on their actions.

I was agreeing with your post and added more context. That is why I am baffled with your response to me. I did not accuse any denomination, faith healer etc.

 

[Eishiba]

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

I sounds weird if people who cast out demons with the Holy Spirit might still not be saved. What does Jesus mean by all this?

I think people are missing a bigger picture than just false prophets and such. It says, "he who does the will of My Father." Part of his will is living a holy life style. What is lawlessness? 1John 3:4 "Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness."

So if we rephrase the last part, I never knew you: depart from me, you who practice sin.

 

[redleghunter]

I think people are missing a bigger picture than just false prophets and such. It says, "he who does the will of My Father." Part of his will is living a holy life style. What is lawlessness? 1John 3:4 "Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness."

So if we rephrase the last part, I never knew you: depart from me, you who practice sin.

Where else in Scriptures do we see “the will of My Father?”

"For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." (John 6:40)

 

[Eishiba]

Where else in Scriptures do we see “the will of My Father?”

"For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." (John 6:40)

Yes but this doesn't mean go live however we want.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Just to clear things up Brother all I did was quote Scriptures and indicate the context include false teachers. I then bolded the portions of the OP quoted Scriptures showing those Christ never knew appealed to Him based on their actions.

I was agreeing with your post and added more context. That is why I am baffled with your response to me. I did not accuse any denomination, faith healer etc.

Great. I accept that. It is just that I have been having some very lively debates on another thread with a guy who was harping on about modern Christians being steeped in unrepentant sin and this was limiting the power of the Holy Spirit. I felt that he was being too judgmental and generalistic without any substantive evidence.

I apologise for adding one plus one equals three in your case.

 

[Eloy Craft]

Those are people that have faith like Paul taught about. " If I have faith to move mountains but without love I am worthless" They could prophecy but they didn't give Jesus food when He was hungry or welcome Him when He was a stranger......They didn't care about the suffering of others. They didn't see Jesus in the poor and suffering. The righteous didn't have to.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Those are people that have faith like Paul taught about. " If I have faith to move mountains but without love I am worthless" They could prophecy but they didn't give Jesus food when He was hungry or welcome Him when He was a stranger......They didn't care about the suffering of others. They didn't see Jesus in the poor and suffering. The righteous didn't have to.

You are reading something into the statement that Paul never said. He says "if", describing a possibility not a certainty. He refers to himself and no one else. He is certainly not describing genuine born again believers. This is just comprehension 101 that I taught 10 year olds.