Five Different Kinds of Tongues

[corinth77777]

Is it legalism or is it God's WORD that judges?

JOHN 12:47-48 [47] And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. [48], He that rejects me, and receives not my words, has one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God (MATTHEW 15:3-9).

Legalism...when you judge people by what they do not keep, rather than the heart of mercy.....They do not do what you do...therefore they are bad and you are good...thats how SDA's spirit[attitudes] come across to me....but in Christ there is no boasting....why? Because He is the justifier of man...that is why we don't start off in the spirit...as mentioned in Gal-to go back under the law....the law does not exhibit life.

 

[Dan the deacon]

Now can we please get back on topic? This has nothing to.do.with the law of Moses.

 

[corinth77777]

Or is it referring to the 10 Commandment being kept two ways? One by the letter that leads to sin (1 John 3:4) and the other by the Spirit leading to LOVE that fulfills God's LAW in those who believe and follow God's WORD (Galatians 5:16; Romans 13:8-10; John 3:15-20) and brings us into the NEW COVENANT (Hebrews 8:10-12)?

I believe once the law has brought one to Christ....it has served it's purpose.[establish the law]..we are not to use our freedom as a licence to sin....because we will not only cause others to stumble but God's light will not be lit in us nor will we grow.....we cannot bear fruit......our life is about becoming the type of people that naturally will do good...
Lot's wife looked back and she turned into a pillar of salt....as also there is nothing left under the law but judgement as stated in Hebrews...why because the law of God makes you recall sin..when you are to leave it behind...and there are no other sacrifices that remain to cover you.
So if you ask me...is the purpose to live by the Spirit is to obey the law of Moses?[LOM]....my answer would be No.....because of what it says in Galatians...
Anything we do for others now...would be out of love for God ..not because we are under the LOM but because we have been joined to Him through the faith of Jesus.
We are to move forward not laying again the foundation or elements....that led us to Christ.....those are my thoughts....every man must study and trust Christ for themselves.

 

[corinth77777]

Now can we please get back on topic? This has nothing to.do.with the law of Moses.

Sure thing

 

[gideon123]

Saint Stephen

Can I invite you to give some Bible verses that show the examples you were referring to ... speaking in tongues?

Blessings!!

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Legalism...when you judge people by what they do not keep, rather than the heart of mercy.....They do not do what you do...therefore they are bad and you are good...thats how SDA's spirit[attitudes] come across to me....but in Christ there is no boasting....why? Because He is the justifier of man...that is why we don't start off in the spirit...as mentioned in Gal-to go back under the law....the law does not exhibit life.

Now Corinth, only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it. If you are "UNDER THE LAW" you are guilty before God of breaking it *ROMANS 3:19-20. We are to judge RIGHTEOUS judgment according to God's WORD *JOHN 7:24. If you feel convicted by the scriptures then you should listen to them. They are God's WORD sent to help you not mine. Your argument is with God not me. Sharing God's WORD with you is not judging you.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I believe once the law has brought one to Christ....it has served it's purpose.[establish the law]..we are not to use our freedom as a licence to sin....because we will not only cause others to stumble but God's light will not be lit in us nor will we grow.....we cannot bear fruit......our life is about becoming the type of people that naturally will do good...
Lot's wife looked back and she turned into a pillar of salt....as also there is nothing left under the law but judgement as stated in Hebrews...why because the law of God makes you recall sin..when you are to leave it behind...and there are no other sacrifices that remain to cover you.
So if you ask me...is the purpose to live by the Spirit is to obey the law of Moses?[LOM]....my answer would be No.....because of what it says in Galatians...
Anything we do for others now...would be out of love for God ..not because we are under the LOM but because we have been joined to Him through the faith of Jesus.
We are to move forward not laying again the foundation or elements....that led us to Christ.....those are my thoughts....every man must study and trust Christ for themselves.

Do you understand the purpose of God's LAW (10 Commandments) corinth? It is the schoolmaster that brings us unto Christ that we might be justified by faith (Galatians 3:22-25; Romans 3:20). If you lose your mirror how do you know what you look like *JAMES 1:23; MATTHEW 9:12-13? If your lamp goes out how can you find your way when the road is dark and narrow *PROVERBS 13:9 ?

 

[Mountainmanbob]

When my wife mumbles something that sounds like tonges I know I'm in trouble.

Don't even need an interpreter.

M-Bob

 

[Francis Drake]

I'm sold on the idea.
If you would write a heading in the style of the other five, I will add it as an EDIT to the end of the OP. You will get credit for your excellent work, of course. Thanks.

Thanks Steven, how's this sound?
6) Warrior language, tongues of angels used as a weapon directly against "against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms." (Eph6v12b)

Before anyone challenges me, I am not saying such high level warfare is limited to tongues, just that it is a wonderful weapon in such situations.
I suspect it will generate even more debate as most Christians seem to believe that prayer is trying to convince God to do something he'd rather not do. The idea of directly confronting indwelling demons, or the Satanic hierarchy seems to be outside their ken.

My next post is a real life testimony that demonstrates this in action.

 

[Francis Drake]

Testimony of using "tongues of angels" as a weapon of war against Satanic powers in the heavenly realm.
I have previously posted this on other threads.

I have been speaking in tongues for more than 40 years.

It is an amazingly useful gift. Apart from edifying me, it is also excellent when praying for things my mind doesn't understand. Tongues flows from my spirit not my mind, so it doesn't get derailed by any mental baggage when I pray.

I remember an incident maybe 25 years back. My wife and I had been asked by a friend to pray urgently for her sick relative who we didn't know at the other side of the country.
We had known his brother who at a very young age had only just suddenly died of the same disease.

We started to pray in English, then soon changed to tongues. I discerned a spirit of death over the man, and our prayer intensified.

Now a little digression here. Prayer is not just pleading and whining to God that he does something. Jesus gave quite specific instructions some of which involved speaking to situations, or speaking to evil spirits rather than asking God.
So speaking in tongues is not just for speaking to God, but to demons and angels also.

So, here we were in our living room, addressing the spirit of death over this man we didn't know. In tongues, eyes closed, completely led by the spirit, I started getting very heated as I addressed the evil strongman that had this man heading towards an early death, and had already killed his brother.

As my prayers became stronger and stronger, I suddenly found myself transported out of our living room and into another world. I was now standing in what looked like a street of low ramshackle lean to huts. It was extremely hot and arid with a blazing red sun. I was at one end of the street facing an evil black demon at the other end, rather like the classic western movie gun fight scenario.

However instead of a gun, I was using words in tongues, but as I spoke I would reach down and pick a big rock and violently throw it at him. Every time I threw a rock and spoke the words, it would painfully strike, steadily driving him backwards out of town.

My body was still in our living room, but my spirit elsewhere, so as in the vision, I was bending down and throwing invisible rocks from the living room carpet.
As all this had been going on with me, my wife had been sitting eyes closed on the sofa, also praying vehemently in tongues.

Suddenly she changed to English with, "...we stone you out of the town..!"

I was completely shocked. When I asked her why she said those words, she replied that she had been in a vision throwing rocks at an evil demon!

She had no clue what I had been doing or saying since we started praying, having had her eyes closed all the time, and listening to the spirit.

So yes, tongues is a very useful weapon also.​

 

[Saint Steven]

Thanks Steven, how's this sound?
6) Warrior language, tongues of angels used as a weapon directly against "against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms." (Eph6v12b)

Before anyone challenges me, I am not saying such high level warfare is limited to tongues, just that it is a wonderful weapon in such situations.
I suspect it will generate even more debate as most Christians seem to believe that prayer is trying to convince God to do something he'd rather not do. The idea of directly confronting indwelling demons, or the Satanic hierarchy seems to be outside their ken.

My next post is a real life testimony that demonstrates this in action.

Sounds good, I'll add it. (see bottom of OP)

 

[Saint Steven]

Saint Stephen

Can I invite you to give some Bible verses that show the examples you were referring to ... speaking in tongues?

Blessings!!

I shared a few near the bottom of the OP. Was there a specific kind of tongues you wanted to discuss?

Part of the problem is that the Bible says very little about the subject. As I said earlier, If the Corinthians hadn't been "swinging from the chandeliers" we might not have received first Corinthians chapters twelve and fourteen. Where ninety-five percent of our info about gifts comes from.

Further difficulty is caused by a lack of definitions of the different kinds of tongues. Only the context explains it. But this is mostly common sense. For example if the text is referring to a tongue that is spoken to the whole congregation, I would call that a Prophetic prayer language - Addressing the whole church/preferably with interpretation, which is #3 on my list. If the text is referring to a tongue that is just between the individual and God, I would call that Personal prayer language - Speaking to/with God, which is #1 on my list.

The main purpose of this topic is to help readers consider what kind of tongues are being referred to in any text where they read about them. The tendency is to have a limited definition of tongues and then argue with others if their discussion doesn't fit your limited idea.

Not surprisingly, this tends to be more prevalent among those who do not exercise tongues, or haven't yet experienced them. There are many strong opinions about tongues, many of which are born out of misinformation or ignorance.

Furthermore, though tongues is listed as a gift of the Spirit, this is in reference to #3 in my list: a Prophetic prayer language - Addressing the whole church/preferably with interpretation. The next gift in the list is the interpretation of tongues, which is only needed for tongues that address the whole church.

Unfortunately, those who think there is only one kind of tongues come back with a comment about tongues not being for everyone. Not realizing that the scripture is only talking about the gift of tongues in addressing the whole congregation. Everyone that has the Holy Spirit is capable of speaking in tongues as a personal prayer language, and an Intercessory prayer language, and probably Singing in the Spirit. (if they can sing at all)

Sorry to go on and on. This is my heart on the subject. It hurts to see so many miss out on this blessing due to a simple misunderstanding about it. Let those who have ears hear. And those who have tongues praise our God.

 

[corinth77777]

Now Corinth, only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it. If you are "UNDER THE LAW" you are guilty before God of breaking it *ROMANS 3:19-20. We are to judge RIGHTEOUS judgment according to God's WORD *JOHN 7:24. If you feel convicted by the scriptures then you should listen to them. They are God's WORD sent to help you not mine. Your argument is with God not me. Sharing God's WORD with you is not judging you.

What judgement does is stops people from entering the kingdom. Guilt is not what I feel...annoyed rather. I admit, I do not know everything and what I know I do not know it well.. but you present yourself as a teacher..you respond as if you are giving help to the lost as you have been found. Then you think you are being kind by waving and saying "I hoped that helped".
What you call righteous judgement is....judging from your thoughts of what you believe you are right about. Righteous judgement is that you have judged yourself first...and you were yet to share how you kept the sabbath as those under the law..
You have yet to see...that everyday in Christ is our day of rest casting our cares upon Him....

You judge not righteously...because scripture is clear when it says.. He is the Master that can make anyone stand...
Romans 14:14

Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.



...

 

[Saint Steven]

What judgement does is stops people from entering the kingdom. Guilt is not what I feel...annoyed rather. I admit, I do not know everything and what I know I do not know it well.. but you present yourself as a teacher..you respond as if you are giving help to the lost as you have been found. Then you think you are being kind by waving and saying "I hoped that helped".
What you call righteous judgement is....judging from your thoughts of what you believe you are right about. Righteous judgement is that you have judged yourself first...and you were yet to share how you kept the sabbath as those under the law..
You have yet to see...that everyday in Christ is our day of rest casting our cares upon Him....

You judge not righteously...because scripture is clear when it says.. He is the Master that can make anyone stand...
Romans 14:14

Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.



...

Exactly.
This statement really hit the nail on the head for me. "..you respond as if you are giving help to the lost as you have been found." When I pointed this out on another topic, he claimed that I was convicted of sin to feel his scripture quoting was an accusation of being lost. And then adding insult to injury in waving and saying, "I hoped that helped."

 

[Saint Steven]

It seems the Golden Rule applies here.

Matthew 7:12
So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

 

[corinth77777]

Do you understand the purpose of God's LAW (10 Commandments) corinth? It is the schoolmaster that brings us unto Christ that we might be justified by faith (Galatians 3:22-25; Romans 3:20). If you lose your mirror how do you know what you look like *JAMES 1:23; MATTHEW 9:12-13? If your lamp goes out how can you find your way when the road is dark and narrow *PROVERBS 13:9 ?

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Question? What was the purpose..or establishment of the Law for?
It was to bring us unto Christ that we might be justified by faith

When are you no longer under a school Master[Law]? When faith is come

You asked: what is our Mirror once Faith is Come? Its the perfect law of liberty("Jesus Christ in us our hope of glory")



James 1..around 23-25
"But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does."
John 15;5
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

I believe he is blessed in what He does because his actions come from love....based on the faithfulness of Christ that produces faith that desires to love...



This is why the commandments are not burdensome....not [commandments under the law] the commandments after believing Jesus is Lord. Love one another

James is contrasting 2 different laws...
It's like saying faith without works is dead
As the doer of the Law is Justified not merely the hearer.

Anyway back to the 2 scriptures .[John 15;5 and James 1.].The perfect law of liberty as I might see it, comparing scripture with scripture is not the ten commandments..it's Christ who fulfilled the law.[God's Love]

Christ-living up to or obeying his sayings[words, commands] ultimately Love

 

[DamianWarS]

That's not true. In Acts 19 they received the gift of prophecy, others didn't. Agabus was given the gift of prophecy, others were not. Philip was an evangelist, others were not. Some were apostles, others were not. Some were teachers, others were not. Some spoke in tongues, others did not.

I'm not saying Acts does not demonstrate the workings of the gifts of the HS I'm saying that the manifestations upon the baptism of the HS look different and the indiscriminate quality is one of these differences. Acts 19 says "The Holy Spirit was given to them, and they spoke unknown languages and prophesied" I fail to see the discriminant gifts acting here.

Where in Acts 8 does it say it was a 'power'?

The text says "Simon noticed that the Spirit was given only when the apostles placed their hands on the people. So he brought money and said to Peter and John, “Let me have this power too!" what is implicit here is an outward supernatural manifestation that would cause simon to desire this imparting of the HS. The text actually explicitly says he interpreted it as a form of power. What he saw is not identified but it does seem to be significant enough for Simon to offer money.

People were baptized in the Spirit multiple times? Where?

You are getting confused with the baptism and filling of the Spirit. They are two different things. Fillings are not associated with tongues, they are associated with boldness. And the only time baptism of the Spirit is associated with tongues was when whole new groups of people joined the church for the 1st time - Jews, Samaritans, Gentiles, Disciples of John the Baptist.

the word "baptism" is a type of abstract ecclesiastical term that has been carried over to english but as a greek word it is nothing special with no inherent spiritual significance. The word means to immerse or submerge so when the phrase "baptised in the Holy Spirit" is used in greek this would be "submerged in the Holy Spirit" and this is not so far from "filled".

The initial event at pentecost actually uses the language "filled" for the baptism in the HS first expressed in Acts in 1:5. In 2:4 it says "And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues..." So "filled" and "baptized" are established from the beginning as synonymous terms and there is no reason not to interpret other examples of "filled" the same way. The word "baptism" or the like are not popular terms throughout acts. We have the initial event, which is synonymously used with "filled", and we have the Cornelius event. We see Saul's conversion when he received the HS and the language used there again is "filled" not baptized but it is clear this is an initial event not a subsequent experience. There is no cause to separate the two terms and they are used interchangeably in Acts.

now that we have establish baptized and filled as synonymous terms the 120 in Acts 4:31 says "they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak the word of God with boldness..." and Acts 2:4 says about the same 120 "they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues..." Do you not see the similarity here? Is not "filled" in 2:4 the same as the "filled" in 4:31? Is not the "filled" in 2:4 the baptism of the HS? I would even argue the author is deliberately drawing a connection.

 

[Dan the deacon]

When my wife mumbles something that sounds like tonges I know I'm in trouble.

Don't even need an interpreter.

M-Bob

True wisdom. Tone has more meaning than words.

 

[swordsman1]

The text says "Simon noticed that the Spirit was given only when the apostles placed their hands on the people. So he brought money and said to Peter and John, “Let me have this power too!" what is implicit here is an outward supernatural manifestation that would cause simon to desire this imparting of the HS. The text actually explicitly says he interpreted it as a form of power. What he saw is not identified but it does seem to be significant enough for Simon to offer money.

The reason I asked was because the word 'power' doesn't appear in the version I consider best for bible study (the NASB). The word there is translated 'authority', but I see other versions translate it power - which gives the impression of 'dunamis', supernatural miracle-working power. However the actual word used is 'exousian' which is power in the sense of having authority.

BDAG Lexicon
① a state of control over someth., freedom of choice, right
② potential or resource to command, control, or govern, capability, might, power​

So Simon was wanting the authority to impart gifts. Notice that Simon was not seeking to be baptised in the Spirit. He wanted to buy the same authority (or power) as Peter had to impart the Spirit. The BoS itself is not a form of power.

the word "baptism" is a type of abstract ecclesiastical term that has been carried over to english but as a greek word it is nothing special with no inherent spiritual significance. The word means to immerse or submerge so when the phrase "baptised in the Holy Spirit" is used in greek this would be "submerged in the Holy Spirit" and this is not so far from "filled".

Being filled and being baptized are completely different terms. One is external, the other internal.

The initial event at pentecost actually uses the language "filled" for the baptism in the HS first expressed in Acts in 1:5. In 2:4 it says "And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues..."

The disciples were both filled and baptized at Pentecost. The were baptized in the Spirit and made part of the body of Christ, the church (1 Cor 12:13), and they were also also filled with the Spirit coming under His influence (Eph 5:18).

So "filled" and "baptized" are established from the beginning as synonymous terms and there is no reason not to interpret other examples of "filled" the same way.

No they are not synonymous. All believers are baptized in the Spirit at conversion - it is the beleivers placement into the body of Christ. 1 Cor 12:13 "For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body" . There is no indication of this being a repeated event. Like water baptism (which is an outward picture of this inner baptism) it is a one-off initiation event.

Being FILLED with the Spirit, however, can happen repeatedly. Eph 5:18 "but be filled with the Spirit", the tense of 'filled' is present imperative ie. be continually filled.

Peter was filled at Pentecost, he was filled again when he stood before the Sanhedrin in Acts 4:8, and filled again in Acts 4:31. Paul was filled in Acts 9:17, and again in Acts 13:9. Stephen was filled in Acts 6:3-5, and again in Acts 7:55.

What characterizes each of those filling events in scripture was not tongues, but boldness. Only one involved tongues (Pentecost), so tongues cannot be said to be a characteristic of being filled with the Spirit.

We see Saul's conversion when he received the HS and the language used there again is "filled" not baptized but it is clear this is an initial event not a subsequent experience.

Paul's conversion took place on the Damascus Road not when he was filled with the Spirit in Acts 9:17.

 

[Dan the deacon]

The reason I asked was because the word 'power' doesn't appear in the version I consider best for bible study (the NASB). The word there is translated 'authority', but I see other versions translate it power - which gives the impression of 'dunamis', supernatural miracle-working power. However the actual word used is 'exousian' which is power in the sense of having authority.

BDAG Lexicon
① a state of control over someth., freedom of choice, right
② potential or resource to command, control, or govern, capability, might, power​

So Simon was wanting the authority to impart gifts. Notice that Simon was not seeking to be baptised in the Spirit. He wanted to buy the same authority (or power) as Peter had to impart the Spirit. The BoS itself is not a form of power.



Being filled and being baptized are completely different terms. One is external, the other internal.



The disciples were both filled and baptized at Pentecost. The were baptized in the Spirit and made part of the body of Christ, the church (1 Cor 12:13), and they were also also filled with the Spirit coming under His influence (Eph 5:18).



No they are not synonymous. All believers are baptized in the Spirit at conversion - it is the beleivers placement into the body of Christ. 1 Cor 12:13 "For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body" . There is no indication of this being a repeated event. Like water baptism (which is an outward picture of this inner baptism) it is a one-off initiation event.

Being FILLED with the Spirit, however, can happen repeatedly. Eph 5:18 "but be filled with the Spirit", the tense of 'filled' is present imperative ie. be continually filled.

Peter was filled at Pentecost, he was filled again when he stood before the Sanhedrin in Acts 4:8, and filled again in Acts 4:31. Paul was filled in Acts 9:17, and again in Acts 13:9. Stephen was filled in Acts 6:3-5, and again in Acts 7:55.

What characterizes each of those filling events in scripture was not tongues, but boldness. Only one involved tongues (Pentecost), so tongues cannot be said to be a characteristic of being filled with the Spirit.



Paul's conversion took place on the Damascus Road not when he was filled with the Spirit in Acts 9:17.

Being baptized is indeed being filled unless you hold to.new evangelical views. Baptism is much more than "just a sign". It has power. It it taught to us through Christ Himself. If your Churches spiritual baptism does not happen at your water baptism it could be because it is not asked for. Meaning: you have not because you ask not.