Uniformitarianism vs Catastrophism Poll

What shaped the universe?


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Tolworth John

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Last theory I saw about formation of was because of planatry collission.
Formation of the solar system requires numerous collisions.
Any event that caused the end of dimosaurs is catastrophic.

So logically there is only one option to vote on.
 
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Strathos

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Dave-W

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I voted “catastrophic,” but am not sure I would say God speaking is a catastrophe ...



ETA:. I believe the opposite of uniforitarianism is “astral castastrophism.”
 
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AV1611VET

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I voted “catastrophic,” but am not sure I would say God speaking is a catastrophe ...
I felt that way too, until I came to realize that ... by catastrophe ... we can put the emphasis on either DAMAGE or CHANGE.

Jesus turning water into wine would be a catastrophe involving change; whereas the Flood was a catastrophe involving damage.
 
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Dave-W

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I felt that way too, until I came to realize that ... by catastrophe ... we can put the emphasis on either DAMAGE or CHANGE.

Jesus turning water into wine would be a catastrophe involving change; whereas the Flood was a catastrophe involving damage.
In connotation, a catastrophe is always a very negative occurrence; synonymous with disaster.
 
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AV1611VET

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In connotation, a catastrophe is always a very negative occurrence; synonymous with disaster.
I agree, it is predominately a very negative occurrence.

But where God is involved, there are exceptions.

Genesis 50:20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

Joseph's "tragedies" was actually God working in the background to let it happen and then turn everything into a blessing.
 
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The IbanezerScrooge

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The thing is catastrophism and uniformitarianism are not opposites. Catostrophic events happen just fine under uniformitarianism. Uniformitarianism has to do with processes, not specific events like volcanoes and earthquakes... or floods. ;) All uniformitarianism says is that the processes we observe today (i.e. erosion, deposition, oxidation, fossilization, radioactive decay, etc.) are the same processes that shaped the planet millions and billions of years ago. In short, chemistry and physics are the same today as they were when Earth was first formed.
 
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Dave-W

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The thing is catastrophism and uniformitarianism are not opposites. Catostrophic events happen just fine under uniformitarianism. Uniformitarianism has to do with processes, not specific events like volcanoes and earthquakes... or floods. ;) All uniformitarianism says is that the processes we observe today (i.e. erosion, deposition, oxidation, fossilization, radioactive decay, etc.) are the same processes that shaped the planet millions and billions of years ago. In short, chemistry and physics are the same today as they were when Earth was first formed.
Disagree. I believe those terms were first used in "The Biblical Flood and the Ice Epoch" by D. W. Patton back in the 1970s. Uniformitarianism described a very slow process that inched along over millions and billions of years with no discernible change over shorter periods like decades or centuries. So even if volcanoes and earthquakes happened, it did no overall change that would be noticeable. Catatrophism OTOH, meant that there were short bursts of very noticeable change that provided the majority of evolution, both biologic and astronomic.
 
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The IbanezerScrooge

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Disagree. I believe those terms were first used in "The Biblical Flood and the Ice Epoch" by D. W. Patton back in the 1970s. Uniformitarianism described a very slow process that inched along over millions and billions of years with no discernible change over shorter periods like decades or centuries. So even if volcanoes and earthquakes happened, it did no overall change that would be noticeable. Catatrophism OTOH, meant that there were short bursts of very noticeable change that provided the majority of evolution, both biologic and astronomic.

Those terms go back further than that to Hutton in the late 18th century and Lyell in the mid 19th. Some describe it as "slow" or "gradual" and they are doing so relative to the overall history of Earth. A volcanic eruption such as Mt. St. Helen's is barely perceptible in the overall geologic history of the Earth.

But let's be honest here. Catastrophism pretty much exclusively refers to The Biblical Flood which is not supported by geological evidence, so it's really sort of moot.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Uniformitarianism vs Catastrophism Poll
What predominately shaped the universe into what it is today?
Hey Phil.
I had never heard of either of those words until a member created a thread "Catastrophism" on the Eschatology board.
I learn something new everyday on the great and wonderful CF..........

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/catastrophism.8078283/
Catastrophism
Modern science generally denies catastrophism as the means whereby geological strata was formed and historians fail to account for some sudden changes being attributable to natural disasters. Their preferred theories are gradual changes over long periods, as in the theory of evolution, of millions of years. No real attempt is made to deny that the reason for this stance, is to avoid any hint that a Supreme Deity could be responsible.

Serious research of historical, geological and archaeological facts, does prove that in the past there were sudden and disastrous events, altering the earth’s environment, causing the death of civilizations and even altering the earths orbit.

The Bible, our one true guide, gives details of how God has acted in His creation in the past and prophesies that He will do so again in the future. Most of the events described, past and future, can actually be attributed to natural occurrences. This is understandable, for to do a straight out miracle would remove any doubt about His existence, thereby abrogating our free will. All creation is under His control, He has established everything according to His purposes.

The records, written and oral of many peoples, proves that circa 1495 BCE there occurred a close bypass of a large celestial object. The comet Typhon gained a place in Greek traditions as a mighty destructive monster, that hurled red hot rocks, roared loudly and caused the earth to quake. It is called Titan [Roman], Seth [Egyptian], Thor [Nordic], and Mexican, Finnish, African, South & North American and even Pacific Island peoples, have vivid traditions of how a fiery blast caused the sky to fall and killed almost everyone.

We know the date of the Babylonian conquest of Judah – 586 BCE. Counting back the years each king of Judah reigned to King Solomon’s dedication of the Temple is a total of 429 years, plus 480 years to when the Torah was given, [1 Kings 6:1]: gives the date of 1495 BCE as the Exodus of the Israelites from Egypt.

The Apostle Paul states in 1 Corinthians 10:11 ‘All the things that happened to them [the Israelites], were symbolic and were recorded as a warning for us, upon whom the end of the age has come’. So according to Paul and many other prophets, we can expect a similar occurrence in our days. Prophesy chapters such as Isaiah 24, Jeremiah 4, Ezekiel 7, Joel 2, Amos 9, Habakkuk 3, Zephaniah 1,2,& 3, Malachi 4, 2 Peter 3 and of course: Revelation 6:12-17, the Sixth Seal, all warn us of an impending worldwide disaster.

Possible explanations of some of what happened in the first Exodus:

Crossing the Red sea: The powerful East wind – caused by the heating of the Mediterranean. Also the gravitational attraction of this comet, made for extreme tides.

The Egyptian plagues: Waters turned to blood – comet debris falling to earth. Deaths – by poisoning and asphyxiation.

Darkness: Sun moon and stars obscured by comet dust and volcanic ash.

Manna: Numbers 11:7-9 This substance cannot possibly be from Tamarisk trees, what they produce is only seasonal and very limited. It is reported that comets may consist of some carbon and hydrates. If this material came into our atmosphere, it could condense in the cool of night into carbohydrate flakes, that would be edible and would evaporate in daytime. This phenomenon is recorded by other peoples and is the means that many of them survived.

Calendar changes: Many ancient sources prove that before this shocking disaster, civilizations used a 360 day calendar. This comets position of travel must have been behind earth’s orbit and its gravity made our planet slow to a 365.24 year. There are a lot of references to resetting the calendar and we only got it corrected about mid common era. We see in Isaiah 13:13, the earth will again be moved out of her place, but this time the earth will speed up and once again orbit the sun in 360 days. This makes the times as given to us in Daniel and Revelation fit perfectly for the last seven years of this era.
Ref: logostelos.info
 
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AV1611VET

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Uniformitarianism vs Catastrophism Poll

Hey Phil.
I had never heard of either of those words until a member created a thread "Catastrophism" on the Eschatology board.
I think those two terms only apply to the earth.

But why not all of God's creation as well?

For example, I don't think God created the moon with craters.

The moon got its craters when it was caught in the crossfire during a cosmic battle that took place between the good angels and the fallen angels.
 
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