This IS the LOVE of God - that we KEEP His Commandments

[BobRyan]

The elephant in your living room is that Christ also agree that the priests were desecrating the Sabbath day, thereby violating the 4th commandment, a fact that you keep running away from: .

Those who "Agree" that they are "keeping Sabbath like a Jewish priest" while ignoring it - need to "read more Bible"

 

[BobRyan]

What happens when the Bible, and C.H. Spurgeon, the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19, and "the Westminster confession of faith" section 19 are quoted verbatim?

And so many here agree with those texts (not even remotely limited to "just-SDA"s)


Well things like this pop up.

Amen brother! We are not fooled by SDA propaganda.

Innexplicably the "I can only see SDAs posting" form of creative writing is offered for serious review.

 

[BobRyan]

You can't lift that command in John out of the context of the whole book, decontextualized. The Johanine community was not even necessarily aware of the other Gospels. The Gospel of John is focused on the command to believe and to "love one another", with the high point being Jesus sermon in the upper room and washing the disciples feet.

John writes from Ephesus - long after the other texts of the NT were completed and after returning from exile on Patmos. His readers were will informed on "the New Testament texts"

 

[Pyong Ping]

Real "love" is this:

Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Exodus 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

 

[Copperhead]

Again, that is the Mosaic / Sinai Covenant that was abrogated by Yeshua the night before His death in fulfillment of Jeremiah 31:31-32

 

[BobRyan]

Again, that is the Mosaic / Sinai Covenant that was abrogated by Yeshua the night before His death in fulfillment of Jeremiah 31:31-32

Christ did not abrogate the old covenant - it remains as Paul points out in Romans 3:19-21 to condemn all mankind as sinners showing that they need the Savior.

Thus when asked Christ said "KEEP the Commandments" in Matthew 19 - BEFORE the cross.

And Paul gives the same list as Christ in Romans 13 reminding us that they are still valid.

What is more Eph 6:2 says all TEN are valid in the TEN Commandments - making the point that the 5th commandment "is the FIRST Commandment WITH a promise" in that still valid unit of TEN.

A Bible detail that almost every Christian denomination on planet Earth affirms (as my signature line points out)

 

[BobRyan]

Real "love" is this:

Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Exodus 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

And..

"This IS the LOVE of God - that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3
Ex 20:6 "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments"

 

[klutedavid]

What happens when the Bible, and C.H. Spurgeon, the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19, and "the Westminster confession of faith" section 19 are quoted verbatim?

And so many here agree with those texts (not even remotely limited to "just-SDA"s)


Well things like this pop up.



Innexplicably the "I can only see SDAs posting" form of creative writing is offered for serious review.

Hello Bob.

On the subject of the ten commandments. At the end of your posts you cite the following sources.

"I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm the Ten Commandments for Christians.
The Baptist Confession of Faith"

Even though you have a reference to the Baptist Confession, the Baptist Confession does not support the seventh day Sabbath. Please read the paragraph below from the Baptist Confession, you may want to reconsider your citation of the Baptist Confession.

Baptist Confession Of Faith (1689)

Chapter 22
7. As it is the law of nature, that in general a proportion of time, by God's appointment, be set apart for the worship of God, so by his Word, in a positive moral, and perpetual commandment, binding all men, in all ages, he hath particularly appointed one day in seven for a sabbath to be kept holy unto him, which from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ was the last day of the week, and from the resurrection of Christ was changed into the first day of the week, which is called the Lord's day: and is to be continued to the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath, the observation of the last day of the week being abolished. ( Exodus 20:8; 1 Corinthians 16:1, 2; Acts 20:7; Revelation 1:10 )

Well Bob, the Baptists honor the first day of the week, do you recite this confession?

 

[Copperhead]

One of the things that Yeshua chided some of the churches in The Revelation for was being so wrapped up in details of service of the King, that they had little time left for the King. He told them to return to their first love.

It is one thing to honor the commandments, but probably focusing in on the one who gave them and then told us how we should view them is a better approach. And He said that all the commandments can be summed up in Love the Lord and Love Others. If we focus on getting those two things right, everything else fits neatly in place.

It is easy to fall into the trap that is the basis of every pagan religion in the world.... that one has to earn their way to God. That is human nature.

 

[BobRyan]

Hello Bob.

On the subject of the ten commandments. At the end of your posts you cite the following sources.

BobRyan said;
"I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm the Ten Commandments for Christians.
The Baptist Confession of Faith"

Hello David.

Thank you for noticing that. You will find it in section 19 of the "Baptist Confession of Faith". Also section 19 of the "Westminster Confession of Faith".

They affirm that the "TEN Commandments" are included in the "moral law of God" AND are included in that law written on the heart under the NEW Covenant. All TEN.

Your comment is so interesting to me - I am devoting an entire thread to it
13 minutes ago #1
- but will continue this answer here for continuity on this thread.

Even though you have a reference to the Baptist Confession, the Baptist Confession does not support the seventh day Sabbath.

My quote above says "all TEN of the TEN Commandments"... so then you need to "Quote me" if your intent is to evaluate something "I said" and not something "you said".

I think we can all see that point.

Please read the paragraph below from the Baptist Confession, you may want to reconsider your post.

http://www.romans45.org/creeds/bcof.htm#part19

Section 19

19. The Law of God

1. God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.
   
   
2. The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the Ten Commandments, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.
   
   
3. Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.
   
   
   
4. To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.
   
   
   
5. The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it.
   
   
   
6. Although true believers are not under the law as a covenant of works, to be justified or condemned by it, yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, because as a rule of life it informs them of the will of God and their duty and directs and binds them to walk accordingly. It also reveals and exposes the sinful pollutions of their natures, hearts and lives, and using it for self-examination they may come to greater conviction of sin, greater humility and greater hatred of their sin. They will also gain a clearer sight of their need of Christ and the perfection of His own obedience. It is of further use to regenerate people to restrain their corruptions, because of the way in which it forbids sin. The threatenings of the law serve to show what their sins actually deserve, and what troubles may be expected in this life because of these sins even by regenerate people who are freed from the curse and undiminished rigours of the law. The promises connected with the law also show believers God's approval of obedience, and what blessings they may expect when the law is kept and obeyed, though blessing will not come to them because they have satisfied the law as a covenant of works. If a man does good and refrains from evil simply because the law encourages to the good and deters him from the evil, that is no evidence that he is under the law rather than under grace.
   
   
   
7. The aforementioned uses of the law are not contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but they sweetly comply with it, as the Spirit of Christ subdues and enables the will of man to do freely and cheerfully those things which the will of God, which is revealed in the law, requires to be done.

=================================

If your sudden attention to detail regarding the Confession of Faith above means you are no longer at war with its basic statements... I for one am glad that you have turned that corner. Welcome to the light.

Notice the "details" in the "Baptist Confession of Faith" that you speak of --

1. TEN Commandments included in the LAW of God given to mankind in Eden.
2. SAME law given at Sinai as the MORAL Law of God.
3. That law binds all mankind after the cross and before it.
4. It is perfectly consistent with grace and therefore the Gospel
5. Laws OTHER than the TEN commandments were given to Israel and those other laws included the ceremonial laws - which are no longer in place after the cross.

The Westminster Confession of Faith - section 19 makes the SAME 5 points. Some of which are the very points you have been so strongly at war against in your prior posts.

(As I have pointed out many many times to you in the past... and gladly do it again)

 

[bekkilyn]

It is easy to fall into the trap that is the basis of every pagan religion in the world.... that one has to earn their way to God. That is human nature.

The fact that we *don't* need to do this makes Christianity very unique and distinct from the other religions. We are able to have a direct relationship with God himself and he is our daddy and best friend as well as our God! It's the most awesome-est thing!

 

[BobRyan]

One of the things that Yeshua chided some of the churches in The Revelation for was being so wrapped up in details of service of the King, that they had little time left for the King. He told them to return to their first love.

It is one thing to honor the commandments, but probably focusing in on the one who gave them and then told us how we should view them is a better approach. And He said that all the commandments can be summed up in Love the Lord and Love Others. If we focus on getting those two things right, everything else fits neatly in place.

It is easy to fall into the trap that is the basis of every pagan religion in the world.... that one has to earn their way to God. That is human nature.

The fact that we *don't* need to do this makes Christianity very unique and distinct from the other religions. We are able to have a direct relationship with God himself and he is our daddy and best friend as well as our God! It's the most awesome-est thing!

And we obey his Commandments because "this IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2

Because in the actual Bible the saints are those who "KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

 

[bekkilyn]

And we obey his Commandments because "this IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2

Because in the actual Bible the saints are those who "KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

You still seem to believe that these are an effort on our part rather than the work of the Holy Spirit. If we are in Christ and are in relationship with him, then we are not in violation of any commandments, ten, or otherwise.

 

[Copperhead]

John 15:10-12 (NKJV) if you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
11 “These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full. 12 This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.

Matthew 11:28-30 (NKJV) Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.

Acts 15:10 (NKJV) Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Acts 15:23-24 (NKJV) They wrote this, letter by them: The apostles, the elders, and the brethren, To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia: Greetings. 24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”—to whom we gave no such commandment

 

[BobRyan]

You still seem to believe that these are an effort on our part rather than the work of the Holy Spirit.

That is the logical fallacy of "either or" -- but I promote "both and".

"I buffet my body and make it my slave lest after preaching the Gospel to others I myself should be disqualified from it" 1 Cor 9:27

 

[bekkilyn]

That is the logical fallacy of "either or" -- but I promote "both and".

"I buffet my body and make it my slave lest after preaching the Gospel to others I myself should be disqualified from it" 1 Cor 9:27

Then why do SDA claim to be salvation by faith alone rather than salvation by faith plus works?

 

[Copperhead]

Then why do SDA claim to be salvation by faith alone rather than salvation by faith plus works?

And therein is the rub. Salvation is by faith alone. But once there, so many seem to want to pile on the do's and don'ts. The human nature is such a strong impulse. It seems extremely hard for many to grasp that there is nothing they can do be righteous before God. The Blood of Messiah is the only way to be righteous and there is a risk of insulting that by piling on conditions. It implies that the Blood of Yeshua is insufficient.

They seem to also forget that Yeshua said that all of the Law and the Prophets can be summed up in two commandments.... Love God and Love Others.

 

[bekkilyn]

And therein is the rub. Salvation is by faith alone. But once there, so many seem to want to pile on the do's and don'ts. The human nature is such a strong impulse. It seems extremely hard for many to grasp that there is nothing they can do be righteous before God. The Blood of Messiah is the only way to be righteous and there is a risk of insulting that by piling on conditions. It implies that the Blood of Yeshua is insufficient.

They seem to also forget that Yeshua said that all of the Law and the Prophets can be summed up in two commandments.... Love God and Love Others.

Yes, we are righteous because *he* is righteous. Sure, good fruits (i.e. works and whatnot) should occur as a *result* of being saved, but that's the work of the Holy Spirit, not our own doing, and when the Holy Spirit is working within us and transforming us, we are not in violation of any law(s).

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
That is the logical fallacy of "either or" -- but I promote "both and".

"I buffet my body and make it my slave lest after preaching the Gospel to others I myself should be disqualified from it" 1 Cor 9:27

Then why do SDA claim to be salvation by faith alone rather than salvation by faith plus works?

James 2: 22 You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness,” and he was called the friend of God. 24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

There is a justification that is "by faith apart from the works of the law" as we see in Romans 3 - SDAs fully support that "justification past" concept.

But Romans 2:13 and James 2:24 point to a future justification -- at the time of the Gospel judgment of Romans 2:16. Where as Christ points out in Matthew 7 "not everyone who SAYS Lord Lord will enter the kingdom but he who DOES the will of My Father"

Paul is right to say "it is not the HEARERS of the LAW that WILL be justified - but rather the DOERS of the LAW WILL be justified" Rom 2:13

"Saved by grace through faith and not of works" Eph 2:8-10 is not the 1 Cor 9:27 denying gospel that many have imagined it to be. Rather as Christ points out "by their fruits you shall know them" -- good fruit comes from good trees.

The lost person must be "born-again" , must accept the Gospel which turns him/her into a "good tree" then the good fruit will surely follow as Christ states

 

[Copperhead]

The lost person must be "born-again" , must accept the Gospel which turns him/her into a "good tree" then the good fruit will surely follow as Christ states

And what is Good Fruit?

James 2:17 (NKJV) Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

Galatians 5:22-23 (NKJV) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

"Fruit" in this passage in Galations has an equivalent meaning in Greek to "works" in the passage in James. Works or Fruits is not focused on following something like the 10 Commandments. It is an outgrowth of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. It is how we judge if someone is guided by the Spirit. We are not called to judge others, but we are called to be fruit inspectors.

Those that focus primarily on 10 Commandments are missing the point altogether. Anyone can give the appearance of following 10 Commandments. But it is the fruit of the Spirit that substantiates whether they actually have placed their trust in Yeshua and are joined with Him.