A question

[StillGods]

Do Calvinists believe Jesus died for the sins of the world, all men, or just the sins of the elect?

 

[HTacianas]

Do Calvinists believe Jesus died for the sins of the world, all men, or just the sins of the elect?

The "L" in TULIP means "limited atonement".

 

[StillGods]

So just to clarify a Calvinist would believe Jesus died just for the sins of the elect?

 

[Anto9us]

Jesus loves some little children
Some of all types of all the children of the world
Red and yellow, black and white -- some are precious in His sight
Jesus loves some of the children of the world

 

[royal priest]

We believe that when Jesus died, He satisfied the wrath of God for sinners. Therefore, it would need to be a payment that was limited to all who would trust in Him and not include those who would ultimately perish (experience God's wrath)

 

[drjean]

Right. Limited to those who put their faith in God. (While salvation is offered to all, it is limited to those who accept it.) God calls those whom He knows will accept, His elect (Jews) and His bride (Gentiles).

 

[Mountainmanbob]

He (He) did not die for the ones that were not His sheep.
M-Bob

 

[StillGods]

Jesus loves some little children
Some of all types of all the children of the world
Red and yellow, black and white -- some are precious in His sight
Jesus loves some of the children of the world

this does seem to be the message sent out by Calvinism in my research so far.

 

[StillGods]

The "L" in TULIP means "limited atonement".

not all Calvinists adhere to this though do they? did Calvin even? i heard somewhere he didnt believe on Limited atonement only the other four?

 

[StillGods]

We believe that when Jesus died, He satisfied the wrath of God for sinners. Therefore, it would need to be a payment that was limited to all who would trust in Him and not include those who would ultimately perish (experience God's wrath)

could it not be that payment was for every single persons sins, but only some would accept it as payment and some would not accept it but it is still a gift given that is paid for. A small distinction but one that Calvinists seem to make? why would Jesus sacrifice not cover every single persons sins (whether they take it or not)? was it not powerful enough to cover the sins of people who will reject Gods gift of payment for their sins as well? is that what Calvinism thinks maybe?

to me it seems a little odd to say Jesus only died for a percentage of humanity not 100% of humanity.

 

[StillGods]

Right. Limited to those who put their faith in God. (While salvation is offered to all, it is limited to those who accept it.) God calls those whom He knows will accept, His elect (Jews) and His bride (Gentiles).

to a Calvinist what is the difference between God offering and God calling?

 

[StillGods]

He (He) did not die for the ones that were not His sheep.
M-Bob

are you sure though?
there are Bible verses that say He did.

 

[royal priest]

could it not be that payment was for every single persons sins, but only some would accept it as payment and some would not accept it but it is still a gift given that is paid for. A small distinction but one that Calvinists seem to make? why would Jesus sacrifice not cover every single persons sins (whether they take it or not)? was it not powerful enough to cover the sins of people who will reject Gods gift of payment for their sins as well? is that what Calvinism thinks maybe?

to me it seems a little odd to say Jesus only died for a percentage of humanity not 100% of humanity.

There would be no point for Jesus to receive punishment for the sins of people who ultimately will not be saved. Moreover, it would be unjust for God to punish their sin in Jesus and then to punish them for those same sins. What Jesus accomplished on the cross was not a potential atonement. It was actual and definite for all who would believe.

 

[StillGods]

There would be no point for Jesus to receive punishment for the sins of people who ultimately will not be saved. Moreover, it would be unjust for God to punish their sin in Jesus and then to punish them for those same sins. What Jesus accomplished on the cross was not a potential atonement. It was actual and definite for all who would believe.

I wonder if the point is that Jesus loves them whether they love Him back or not. God Is Love. He showed His love for them by dying on a cross for their sins purely because He loves us while we are yet sinners . So great is the Love of God shown in Christ Jesus.

Will some say no to His Love shown to us in Christ Jesus? absolutely, we all say no to love all the time. Does that change who God is, that God loves them, no. They just forfeit the grace that could be theirs.

is it unjust? it depends if you see the punishment for not believing in Jesus as starting now or not. is it a double judgment... or just one that begins from when we choose to believe or not. Rejecting Jesus (in all its forms) has consequences, we reap what we sow i am saved but like Peter have denied Christ many times i am no angel. God is merciful.

i agree it is an atonement open to all who believe in Jesus.

 

[royal priest]

I wonder if the point is that Jesus loves them whether they love Him back or not. God Is Love. He showed His love for them by dying on a cross for their sins purely because He loves us while we are yet sinners . So great is the Love of God shown in Christ Jesus.

Will some say no to His Love shown to us in Christ Jesus? absolutely, we all say no to love all the time. Does that change who God is, that God loves them, no. They just forfeit the grace that could be theirs.

is it unjust? it depends if you see the punishment for not believing in Jesus as starting now or not. is it a double judgment... or just one that begins from when we choose to believe or not. Rejecting Jesus (in all its forms) has consequences, we reap what we sow i am saved but like Peter have denied Christ many times i am no angel. God is merciful.

i agree it is an atonement open to all who believe in Jesus.

The first point I mentioned is the foundation for man's need to be saved by God from beginning to end. Faith and repentance are gifts that God gives only to the sinners He has elected to save. Apart from those whom God has chosen, no else receives this gift.
We were spiritually dead in the trespasses and sins in which we once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. Ephesians 2:1-3

 

[StillGods]

The first point I mentioned is the foundation for man's need to be saved by God from beginning to end. Faith and repentance are gifts that God gives only to the sinners He has elected to save. Apart from those whom God has chosen, no else receives this gift.
We were spiritually dead in the trespasses and sins in which we once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. Ephesians 2:1-3

Faith and repentance are gifts that God gives only to the sinners He has elected to save. Apart from those whom God has chosen, no else receives this gift

i see it slightly different, that these things are open to 'whosoever will'.

God did have a plan before the beginning of time set up for salvation, but that plan of Jesus creating a way for us by dying on the cross and rising again is what was foreordained. So its open to any who will accept it, receive it, believe on His Name and be saved. many will reject it, many rejected Jesus as Messiah back in Jesus' time as well.

once we're saved we're chosen for different jobs. thats what i reckon a lot of the chosen in Him stuff is about, not chosen to be saved (anyone who believes in Jesus can be saved) but chosen to be an apostle or something else etc after we're saved.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Regarding God calling one or some Bibles say wooing one.

To drag or dragging would be the proper word.

There is no saying no to God.

Yet man as puffed up as he can be at times wants to think oh yes I did it.

M-Bob

 

[StillGods]

Regarding God calling one or some Bibles say wooing one.

To drag or dragging would be the proper word.

There is no saying no to God.

Yet man as puffed up as he can be at times wants to think oh yes I did it.

M-Bob

we say no to God all the time.
this is one of the saddest ones.
Matthew 23:37
Jerusalem, Jerusalem! Your people have killed the prophets and have stoned the messengers who were sent to you. I have often wanted to gather your people, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings. But you wouldn't let me.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

we say no to God all the time.

The Elect will not and can not say no to God's salvation (Regeneration).
And they will be (given) a new heart.
And they will realize that they are only a bond servant.
And they will call Jesus their Lord and Savior.
M-Bob

 

[StillGods]

The Elect will not and can not say no to God's salvation (Regeneration).
And they will be (given) a new heart.
And they will realize that they are only a bond servant.
And they will call Jesus their Lord and Savior.
M-Bob

Thanks for being honest with it.
This is what i came here for to find out what is believed in Calvinist circles so its good to see it laid out like this.

but the cannot say no thing makes me like calvinism cos i'm not very into evangelism so dont need to evangelise if one is calvinist which i quite like hehe..