ARE GOD'S 10 COMMANDMENTS ABOLISHED?

[Uber Genius]

Remind me again, by keeping the 10 commandments how many were declared righteous?

a. > 1,000,000
b. < 1,000,000
c. 0

When the Judaizers went around encouraging people to keep the law including the 10 commandments in Galatia what did Paul call the Christians that followed their advice?

a. Wise
b. Incisive
c. Fools
d. bewitched
e. C & D

The trouble with these types of questions is that they fail to make proper distinctions between the law and its relation to God's plan.

The Law in this case can have two very contradictory attributes:

The law is Good.
The law is not valuable, in fact it is a stumbling block, to a person being transformed into a disciple of God.

Imagine two circles that partially intersect - A & B. The Law is represented by A and a Christian being obedient to the Holy Spirit is B. There is a subset of the Law that B keeps. But what is that subset? And more importantly, how is that subset derived?

Now Paul seems to be unconcerned with "Special Days" in Roms. 14. Now these were days that were most likely the important feast days in the Jewish religion. But whatever they are Paul asserts liberality to not conform to these days. Similarly the Jerusalem council meets in Acts 15 and takes 617 OT laws and shortens them to a handful for Gentile believers. I don't keep sabbath and have never met someone who does. I grew up in a community that was 45% Jewish. My orthodox neighbors kept sabbath. No Christian I have met even comes close- including the sabbatarians. So maybe we only keep 9. Or maybe the shema in Deut. 6:4-6 is subsumed by, "Love God, and love your neighbors," as some Christian sage once recommended. And that was during the Old Covenant.

 

[discipler7]

We are under Christ's law which has been shaped by the old covenant, but it is not the old covenant so we do not follow it.

1CORINTHIANS.6:9-11 = 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

GALATIANS.5: = 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

REVELATION.21 & 22 = 21:8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” &

22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _

Seems, Christ's law and the Old Covenant Law are the same, wrt non-burdensome morality laws.

Both Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians are still under the Old Covenant morality laws that rightly should be written on their hearts and minds by God/Lord/Spirit.(HEBREWS.10:15 & 26)
....... But if some misguided Gentile Christians choose to not allow God to do so, ie by not learning about the non-burdensome morality laws of the Old Covenant, they can't blame God when very unpleasant things or sicknesses happen to them after they ignorantly break His laws, which may further result in them ending up in the lake of fire and brimstone. Eg some Gentile Christians think it is OK to consult horoscope, psychics, fortune-tellers, tarot-card readers, palm-readers, etc(cf; DEUTERONOMY.18:9-14).

 

[discipler7]

I don't keep sabbath and have never met someone who does. I grew up in a community that was 45% Jewish. My orthodox neighbors kept sabbath. No Christian I have met even comes close- including the sabbatarians. So maybe we only keep 9.

Fyi, since the establishment of the Holy Roman Empire by Emperor Constantine during the 4th century AD, the Sabbath day for Christians has been changed to Sunday, as per the Roman calendar and under Roman Law.
....... Most Western countries today continue to keep Sunday as the national rest day.

If Sunday or another day(eg for shift workers) is your rest day, you have already been keeping the Sabbath law, even if you are ignorant about it.

Most national Labor Law require employers to provide weekly or bi-weekly rest days, at least one day per week, or to limit the maximum work-hours, for their employees.

Today, in Saudi Arabia and other Muslim countries, the rest day for Muslims is Friday. In Israel today, the national rest day is the Biblical Sabbath day, ie from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workweek_and_weekend

 

[Saint Steven]

I would ask you this.
In your heart do you believe it is ok to commit adultery, or do you believe in your heart it would grieve God if you did that?
In your heart do you believe it would grieve God if you stole?
In your heart would you think it is ok to take the Lords name in vain?
In your heart do you believe it is OK to bear false witness?

If you know in your mind those things are wrong for Christians to do, and in your heart you do not want to do them, doesn't that answer the question?

There are Ten Commandments.
Are you keeping the Ten if you only keep nine? (nope)

 

[James Richards]

There are Ten Commandments.
Are you keeping the Ten if you only keep nine? (nope)

I have already explained my thoughts to you concerning the fourth commandment. And like you, I do not believe applicable law/moral law would be limited to the ten commandments

 

[Saint Steven]

MATTHEW.19: = Jesus Counsels the Rich Young Ruler
16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”

17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

Thanks.
The last phrase determines the scope of "the commandments".
"You shall love your neighbor as yourself", is outside the Ten. (Lev. 19:18)
Therefore the scope of the commandments is the whole law.
Not just the Ten.

 

[James Richards]

There are Ten Commandments.
Are you keeping the Ten if you only keep nine? (nope)

You have said the ten commandments are not for Christians. May I ask, do you believe it is OK for Christians to:
Steal
Bear false witness
Take the Lords name in vain
Covet
Murder
Commit adultery

 

[DamianWarS]

Seems, Christ's law and the Old Covenant Law are the same, wrt non-burdensome morality laws.

It doesn't matter if they're a mirror. The old covenant is not for us, we are bound by Christ.

 

[Saint Steven]

I have already explained my thoughts to you concerning the fourth commandment. And like you, I do not believe applicable law/moral law would be limited to the ten commandments

Why did you infer that the Ten were it then?

 

[Saint Steven]

You have said the ten commandments are not for Christians. May I ask, do you believe it is OK for Christians to:
Steal
Bear false witness
Take the Lords name in vain
Covet
Murder
Commit adultery

What does it mean to "Take the Lords name in vain"?
What does the commandment say?

 

[discipler7]

"You shall love your neighbor as yourself", is outside the Ten. (Lev. 19:18)
Therefore the scope of the commandments is the whole law.
Not just the Ten.

Actually, there are 613 commandments in Moses Law or God's Law. The 1st ten commandments received prominence because God spoke them directly to the thousands of Jews from heaven, ie the Jews heard God speaking audibly to them. Thereafter, in fear, the Jews refused to listen anymore. God relented. The other 603 commandments were relayed to the Jews indirectly via God speaking directly only to Moses.(EXODUS.20)
....... Maybe the Jews would have been more law-abiding if they had heard all 613 commandments directly from God.

At MATTHEW.22:37-40, Jesus Christ defined the 2 greater commandments, which are not part of the 10 Commandments.

 

[James Richards]

Why did you infer that the Ten were it then?

Please show me where I did

 

[James Richards]

What does it mean to "Take the Lords name in vain"?
What does the commandment say?

If you want to respond to a post, please address the question asked

 

[corinth77777]

Hello brother corinth, thanks for your thoughts.

All the law is fulfilled in Christ but it is Jesus and all the NEW TESTAMENT writers that say it is NOT abolished (Matthew 5:17-19) Love fulfills and establishes it in the life of those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. This is the NEW COVENANT *Hebrews 8:10-12; Romans 13:8-10.

Brother, you have your shadows laws that point to Jesus mixed up with God's eternal law that give us a knowledge of GOOD and EVIL and lead us to the Saviour. It looks like you have become confused by seeking answers from men instead of the Word of God.

Breaking any of God's Commandments is only a problem to those who continue to KNOWINGLY break it (James 2:8-12). None enter into God's KINGDOM by CONTINUING in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN (Hebrews 10:26-27).

It does not worry me. It should worry you my brother if you choose to disregard God's LAW.

May God bless you as you seek him through his WORD

I believe that we our under Spiritual law,
LOVE..
WE KEEP CHRIST'S SAYINGS
KINGDOM LIVING
WHEN WE THERFORE REFUSE TO LOVE THEN WE SIN AGAINST THE LAW OF Christ
....How do I know I Sin today? After I did something that I know Christ would not have done. AS THE OTHER DAY... I REALIZED I HAD DISDAIN FEELINGS ABOUT A COP....SEEING ALL THAT THEY HAD DONE TO BLACK PEOPLE...after I acted out under my breath with my daughter. I felt bad...was my hurt going to help anything...no....My goal is to change lives by surrendering even those feelings to God so that He works in me.
I was not convicted by the Letter but by the Spirit that works righteousness.
.......


The purpose of the Law was met...when it did it's Job....It brought me to Christ. And if any man be in Christ he has come a part of a new creation...or rather He is a new creation.
What happens to the Old? The old is gone and new has come.

 

[ViaCrucis]

There are Ten Commandments.
Are you keeping the Ten if you only keep nine? (nope)

There are actually 613 commandments. We speak of "The Ten Commandments" largely as a matter of tradition, because historically in Christianity we have used these ten in our catechesis as a summary of God's Law (not just to say "the Law", i.e. the Torah, but of God's universal moral Law). The Scriptures themselves don't even demarcate these as "ten commandments", and throughout history different people and groups have numbered them differently. There are several basic ways they have been enumerated (as recognized by groups today):

1) The Jewish numbering (used by Jews).
2) The Augustinian numbering (used by Roman Catholics, Lutherans, and Anglicans).
3) The Calvinist numbering (used by the majority of Protestants).
4) The Orthodox numbering (used by the Orthodox).

Examples:

The 1st Commandment as in Judaism:
(Exodus 20:2) "I, the Lord, am your God, who brought you from the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery."
The 2nd Commandment as in Judaism:
(Exodus 20:3) "You shall have no other gods before me."


The 1st Commandment as in the Augustinian numbering:
(Exodus 20:3-6) "You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a carved image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above or that is on the earth beneath or that is in the water below. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I, the Lord, your God, am a jealous God, responding to the transgression of fathers by dealing with children to the third and fourth generations of those who reject me, and showing covenant faithfulness to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments."

The 2nd Commandment as in the Augustinian numbering:
(Exodus 20:7) "You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold guiltless anyone who takes his name in vain."

The 1st Commandment as in the Calvinist numbering:
(Exodus 20:2-3) "I, the Lord, am your God, who brought you from the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery. You shall have no other gods before me."

The 2nd Commandment as in the Calvinist numbering:
(Exodus 20:4-6) "You shall not make for yourself a carved image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above or that is on the earth beneath or that is in the water below. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I, the Lord, your God, am a jealous God, responding to the transgression of fathers by dealing with children to the third and fourth generations of those who reject me, and showing covenant faithfulness to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments."

That we, both Jews and Christians, divide these sections of Exodus (and Deuteronomy) into ten commandments is not inherent to the text, but is a tradition--one that differs depending on who you ask.

The significance of these ten isn't that they are somehow more from God than the rest of God's commands given tot he Israelites; their significance in Christianity is how they have been used as a helpful tool in instructing on some basic elements of God's law: i.e. don't worship other gods, don't murder, don't steal, etc.

But some have decided that not only are these ten somehow the most important commands which God gave Israel, as though they are different than all the rest as far as Israel is concerned, but have decided that they represent an eternal, legalistic, and moralistic standard to be imposed--not so much in regard to murder or bearing false witness or other matters of morality but only on one very key and specific command that exists among these, the command to rest on the seventh day. And so these modern Judaizers, of the Sabbatarian variety, insist that not only must the people of Jesus Christ rest on the seventh day as was expected of the Israelites of old, but go even farther and say that on this day we must congregate for worship, and no other day may we do so. They inflict damning afflictions upon the conscience of the neophyte and the weak, in order to oppress them and indoctrinate them in the rest of their false teachings, holding a Pharisaical weight above their heads, and a terrible yoke on their shoulders, and keeping them from enjoying the freedom and liberty that is in Jesus Christ, and from hearing the Gospel of their salvation.

There is nothing wrong with assembling on Saturday, but there is something wrong in telling people they must assemble on Saturday and on no other day. There is nothing wrong with taking a rest from one's labors, but the Sabbatarian has no concern for rest, but only the oppression of their brother. They do not, therefore, even follow and observe the commandment they prize so highly, they violate it and show themselves lawbreakers and being entirely lawless. For in their striving they ignore the point of the commandment altogether, and instead seek to work, and to work destruction upon themselves and others. Christ has spoken His word to such as these: "You load people down with burdens difficult to bear, yet you yourselves refuse to touch the burdens with even one of your fingers! Woe to you!" (Luke 11:46)

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

What does it mean to "Take the Lords name in vain"?
What does the commandment say?

It is a command against using God's name (YHVH) in a false way, i.e., the swearing of false oaths.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Saint Steven]

Please show me where I did

I would ask you this.
In your heart do you believe it is ok to commit adultery, or do you believe in your heart it would grieve God if you did that?
In your heart do you believe it would grieve God if you stole?
In your heart would you think it is ok to take the Lords name in vain?
In your heart do you believe it is OK to bear false witness?

If you know in your mind those things are wrong for Christians to do, and in your heart you do not want to do them, doesn't that answer the question?

There you go. Unless I misunderstood you.

 

[Saint Steven]

If you want to respond to a post, please address the question asked

You answer a post with a question (or five). Why can't I?

 

[klutedavid]

Hi Steve not to see you again.

So your argument now is that because the words "The 10 Commandments" is not used in the new Testament therefore the scripture that say God's commandments or God's LAW cannot be talking about the 10 commandments?

There are many different laws discussed in the bible.

-Ceremoniall law,
-Mosaic law,
-God's law
-Law of the Spirit
-Civil law
-Levitical laws
-Sanitary laws
-Dietry laws

So how do we know what laws are discussed in scripture when any of these laws are discussed in God's WORD under law or commandment? It is very easy. What is the topic of conversation and the within scripture and chapter context of discussion.

Now you your argument here is because the words "the Ten Commandments" are not being used in the NEW TESTAMENT therefore "the ten commandments" are not referred to in the NEW TESTAMENT. Let's test your claim if this is true or false...

ROMANS 7:7 [7], What shall we say then? is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I HAD NOT KNOWN SIN, BUT BY THE LAW: for I had not known lust, EXCEPT THE LAW HAD SAID YOU SHALL NOT COVET.

Now here PAUL is talking about "THE LAW". Now what law are we talking about? As you say the words "the Ten Commandments" are not being used. Is the scripture talking about the 10 Commandments? What is the within scripture context and topic of conversation?

" I HAD NOT KNOWN WHAT SIN WAS EXCEPT BY THE LAW; for I had not know lust, EXCEPT THE LAW HAD SAID YOU SHALL NOT COVET."

Now what law says; YOU SHALL NOT COVET?

EXODUS 20:17 [17] YOU SHALL NOT COVET your neighbor's house, you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is your neighbor's.

Woops there it is. The LAW PAUL is talking about is?

THE 10 COMMANDMENTS. Paul is saying he did not know what sin was until God's 10th Commandment said you shall not Covet.

Guess that argument did not work out to well for you Steve? No more room to wiggle.

Just beause the words "the Ten Commandments" are not used in the NEW TESTAMENT does not not mean the writers of the NEW TESTAMENT are not talking about the Ten Commandments when they are referring to God's LAW and quoting the Ten Commandments.

..............

JAMES 2:8-12
[8], If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well:
[9], But if ye have respect to persons, YOU COMMIT SIN, AND ARE CONVINCED OF THE LAW AS TRANSGRESSORS .
[10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
[11] For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, said also, DO NOT KILL. Now if thou commit NO ADULTERY, yet if thou KILL, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW

Now which law is JAMES talking about when he is referncing God's LAW of LOVE to our neighbore? Jesus and Paul say on these two commandments [Love to God and Love to Man] hand all the LAW and the prophets. Paul says in Romans 13:9 that LOVE somes up the first 5-10 of God's 10 Commandments. Now in James 2:9-11 God's WORD says that in v10 if we keep ALL of the law but break one then we stand guilty before God as if we have broken them all. What laws is James using as his example? DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY and DO NOT KILL.

Same question again. What LAW is DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY and DO NOT KILL?

EXODUS 20:14 [13] You shall not KILL
EXODUS 20:14 [14] You shall not commit adultery.

Yep there they are they are James is talking about "the Ten Commandments" James is quoting the 6th and 7th Commandment from the 10 Commandments. Once again just beause the words "the Ten Commandments" are not used in the NEW TESTAMENT does not not mean the writers of the NEW TESTAMENT are not talking about the Ten Commandments when they are referring to God's LAW and quoting the Ten Commandments.

..............

Maybe one more example? There are many more examples but let's use one more from Paul to save time time.

ROMANS 13:8-10
[8], Owe no man anything, but to love one another: FOR HE THAT HAS LOVED ANOTHER HAS FULFILLED THE LAW. [9], For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

Yep here is that term "the LAW" being used again. Now what law are we talking about this time? What is the within scripture and chapter topic of conversation? It is God's 2nd great commandments of LOVE that Jesus says all the law and the prophets hang (Matthew 22:36-40). Paul says that this law sums up the 5th to 10th Commandments of our duty of LOVE to our neighbore, quoting that You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet. Paul says that the 2nd great commandments are summing up these laws to our neighbore v9. What law is the topic of discussion? Where are these laws found in God's WORD?

EXODUS 20:12 Honor your father and your mother
EXODUS 20:13, You shall not kill.
EXODUS 20:14, You shall not commit adultery.
EXODUS 20:15, You shall not steal.
EXODUS 20:16, You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
EXODUS 20:17, You shall not covet

No doubt about it Paul's reference to "the LAW" here again is...

THE TEN COMMANDMENTS

Just beause the words "the Ten Commandments" are not used in the NEW TESTAMENT does not not mean the writers of the NEW TESTAMENT are not talking about the Ten Commandments when they are referring to God's LAW and quoting the Ten Commandments.

Now Steve, you do not really believe that the scriptures are not talking abour the TEN COMMANDMENTS now do you when the topic of conversation in relation to "the LAW" is the 10 Commandment? No more wiggling please.



I know we have talked before and you interpret this as God's 10 Commandments being abolished. Yet the scriptures do not say or teach this. They are not saying God's Ten Commandments are abolished they are saying we are in the NEW COVENANT and the letter of the LAW is now in the SPIRIT of the law and the letter on stone has been transferred to the fleshly tables of the heart through faith that works by LOVE in those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. I am happy to share a verse by verse study on 2 COR 3 but I do not think you will consider it. If you want to have a friendly discussion here with me on 2 Corinthians 3 let me know and we can share the scriptures together in a bit more detail?



I sugges to all that you check the references all of God's LAW (10 commandments) are repeated all through the NEW TESTAMENT. Maybe I will post some of the scriptures here.

GOD's 10 COMMANDMENTS IN THE NEW TESTAMENT LINKED CLICK ME



No one is under the law if they are not guilty before God of breaking it. If you are breaking God's LAW (10 Commandments) however you are under the law condemned and stand guilty before God of breaking it. Happy to discuss this in detail if you wish? Just let me know?



Indeed. The purpose of God's LAW (10 Commandments) is to give us a KNOWLEDGE of GOOD AND EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTOUENESS (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; James 2:9-11; 1 JOhn 3:4; Psalms 119:172) We are not made rightoeus by it. God's LAW is our teacher that shows us our need of a Savior that we can be forgiven by Faith.

May God help you as you seek him through his WORD.

MATTHEW.19: = Jesus Counsels the Rich Young Ruler
16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”

17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

How about highlighting the most important commandment in that list.

‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’

That is the perfect law, one of the two of the greatest commandments in the law.

 

[Saint Steven]

How about highlighting the most important commandment in that list.

‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’

That is the perfect law, one of the two of the greatest commandments in the law.

It wasn't marked because it was not part of the Ten in discussion.