Sin

[justbyfaith]

I’m really sorry for those who embrace the piece. Instead of seeking the living God to tell you the state of your heart and deeds you claim your deeds and heart are something holy and righteous because you want to be able to say that. So you find verses and decide yourself they describe you personally. How shocking it will be when such stand before God and their real deeds are measured. They will not be able to say, “ I believed the wet paint principle” for God will say, “I don’t.”

The Wet Paint Principle doesn't save anyone. But understanding it will provide a person with victory in being able to overcome it. And also, God does believe in the Wet Paint Principle; for it is a term that I simply coined in order to describe a principle that God set forth in His word (Romans 7:7-13). Also, you have judged the entire document before even reading the whole thing. See Proverbs 18:13 as to why that is wrong.

justbyfaith said: The holy scripture was inspired of the Holy Spirit but penned by human authors; using their personalities and thought processes as the Holy Spirit moved them along.

This is what you heard from others. This is a very superficial and somewhat incorrect guess.

This is what I read in God's word (2 Timothy 3:16, 2 Peter 1:19-21); I don't recall ever hearing it from any pastor.

It’s also so long no one can write an answer. This too is a part of the self focused theology. The author takes up all the space to write there is. No one else can say much as it’s not allowed.

It is allowed. You can comment on anything you disagree with by writing a post. That is why I provided chapter and verse, for easier reference.

Ever thought that sometimes painters leave the sign on longer than necessary??

Perhaps the reason why people always want to test it.

I repeat, you are very loose with words. So everything you want to make up in terms of doctrine you just say that Jesus doesn’t have to have taught it

The concept that one must be forgiven of all their sins to go to heaven is a matter of common sense. If a person is not forgiven, then their only option is to be punished; and that means hell and then the lake of fire.

The day will come when you’re tempted to sin and the eternal security doctrine will tell you it doesn’t matter and you’ll do it. It permits sin.

Actually not, if you understand how it fits together in the whole of the document, scripturally.

Instead of seeking the living God to tell you the state of your heart and deeds you claim your deeds and heart are something holy and righteous because you want to be able to say that.

You didn't read chapters 3 and 4 yet. And what you say is missing does exist in chapters 1 and 2 to a certain extent.

so full of supporting the self and pride fully in tact,

Again, you have three fingers pointing back at you.

And frankly speaking, they write wet paint on places all over our building and i’ve never seen anyone going by touch it.

People who violate the law don't generally do it publicly if they can help it. They are ususally afraid of judgments from other people.

Nonsense. Did you ever hear their prayers for him? They prayed for MORE of what he had and I guess someone from down answered cause he divorced his wife, left his children and married his lover. Is that what you call “under authority?” Joyner quickly reinstated the unrepentant adulterer. If they had an ounce of discernment, they have done like Peter and Paul and publicly expose and rebuke him. Instead they praised him.

I was unaware of these things. Now of course it appeared that major miracles of healing were going on, so I don't blame them for wanting some of that to be in their ministries. They may have been deceived by the magnitude of what seemed to be happening. I have been ministered to by that genre of Christianity so I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt, and spoke what I believed had to be true without checking into the details, in their defense.

Did all of the elders who laid hands on him reinstate him; or was it only Rick Joyner? Whose decision was it to take him down from ministry, and why? Are you sure that all of them were endorsing him (in the permanent sense)? Or is it possible that some of them may have temporarily endorsed him for the reasons I specified?

What I do know is that what I have said to you is what I had perceived of the situation at the time. I did not trust Todd Bentley; and if I had been one of those elders and had laid hands on him, it would have been for the purpose of putting him under the authority of the eldership in the case that he ended up sinning publicly. Some of the elders may not have been on that same page as what I was thinking. I did not see every episode of the whole Todd Bentley incident.

 

[justbyfaith]

The only ones who touch such a bench want to sit on it.

Perhaps it isn't the perfect analogy. However it is intended to illustrate Romans 7:7-13. (Although, in thinking about it further, the essence of the wet paint sign is that it is saying, "Do not sit on the bench." So people test to see if the paint is still wet so they can violate the essence of what the sign is saying in spite of the fact that it is there telling them not to do it).

It’s not sense and so has nothing in common with common sense. Any community who did this would find serious crime accelerating.

The concept of being forgiven of past, present, and future sin is not for an unbelieving community, it is for the born again believer, whose heart is changed so that he or she has a hatred of sin. The devil will try to heap condemnation on you if because of human weakness you aren't able to be victorious over something in particular that is a besetting sin in your life.

A community of born again believers would not find crime accelerating because the Holy Spirit is in them as a restraint concerning sin: they are born again, they are new creatures in Christ, therefore they cannot sin (however you will interpret that statement in 1 John 3:9).

I told you over and over that the living God talks to me.

This is the first time you've told me that.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The Wet Paint Principle doesn't save anyone. But understanding it will provide a person with victory in being able to overcome it.

Never said it did. Jesus saves people. Never says your thoughts do. And since it’s based on something untrue, people really don’t touch wet paint cause of the sign and they don’t sin because it’s forbidden, it doesn’t do what you claim either:

This is what I read in God's word; I don't recall ever hearing it from any pastor.

You heavily edit what you read leaving out bits.

It is allowed. You can comment on anything you disagree with by writing a post. That is why I provided chapter and verse, for easier reference.

I tried. It’s too long. Not enough characters.

The concept that one must be forgiven of all their sins to go to heaven is a matter of common sense.

Actually, to enter a persons house and live with them you need to know them. This is common sense. What is not is assuming you can abuse a mans children and think the man forgave you before you did and will let you in to continue. This is your position, that God doesn’t mind you treating his kids badly forgiving you before you do.

If a person is not forgiven, then their only option is to be punished; and that means hell and then the lake of fire.

You forget about repenting? John says he’s faithful and just and will
forgive not “nevermind, you’re already forgiven.”

Actually not, if you understand how it fits together in the whole of the document, scripturally.

One need have no relationship with God at all in your theory.

You didn't read chapters 3 and 4 yet.

I will if you insist, but the first bit already was grieving.

Again, you have three fingers pointing back at you.

Not much original thought have you? If you had the word of wisdom you wouldn’t need to copy what others say so much.

People who violate the law don't generally do it publicly if they can help it. They are ususally afraid of judgments from other people.

Depends upon their power.

I was unaware of these things. Now of course it appeared that major miracles of healing were going on, so I don't blame them for wanting some of that to be in their ministries. They may have been deceived by the magnitude of what seemed to be happening. I have been ministered to by that genre of Christianity so I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt, and spoke what I believed had to be true without checking into the details, in their defense.

You are too loose with words.

Did all of the elders who laid hands on him reinstate him; or was it only Rick Joyner? Whose decision was it to take him down from ministry, and why? Are you sure that all of them were endorsing him (in the permanent sense)? Or is it possible that some of them may have temporarily endorsed him for the reasons I specified?

I don’t know that he was taken down at all. Was he? I only saw Joyner in restoring. The point was the self proclaimed prophet/apostles are fake. God doesn’t speak to them let alone through them.

What I do know is that what I have said to you is what I had perceived of the situation at the time. I did not trust Todd Bentley; and if I had been one of those elders and had laid hands on him, it would have been for the purpose of putting him under the authority of the eldership in the case that he ended up sinning publicly. Some of the elders may not have been on that same page as what I was thinking. I did not see every episode of the whole Todd Bentley incident.

First, you don’t lay hands on an adulterous unrepentant man at all, This is some spiritual danger.

Second none of the apostles laid hands on the terribly guilty to put them under THEIR authority. They put them under the Holy Spirit and publicly name their sin and rebuke it. Twice it resulted in instant death but it takes a word of knowledge, evidence God is anointing a man. When God annoints a prophet or apostle, He gives them knowledge they could have gotten otherwise. God was exposing Joyner and Wagner and the rest as fakes with whom He has nothing to do with.

 

[justbyfaith]

I tried. It’s too long. Not enough characters.

Copy and paste the thing in particular that you want to comment on in a new post.

Actually, to enter a persons house and live with them you need to know them. This is common sense. What is not is assuming you can abuse a mans children and think the man forgave you before you did and will let you in to continue. This is your position, that God doesn’t mind you treating his kids badly forgiving you before you do.

One who is forgiven is most assuredly born again; and therefore is not inclined to abuse the man's children. One doesn't need the condemnation of the law to motivate him unless he isn't born again.

One need have no relationship with God at all in your theory.

I don't see that at all. A relationship with God is integral to everything; although in the document I do not speak on every subject there is, and therefore may not have mentioned anything about relationship (although I might have: try Freedom 2:23).

Not much original thought have you? If you had the word of wisdom you wouldn’t need to copy what others say so much.

You are too loose with words.

You appear to have a very critical spirit. That is not of God.

First, you don’t lay hands on an adulterous unrepentant man at all, This is some spiritual danger.

Second none of the apostles laid hands on the terribly guilty to put them under THEIR authority. They put them under the Holy Spirit and publicly name their sin and rebuke it. Twice it resulted in instant death but it takes a word of knowledge, evidence God is anointing a man. When God anoints a prophet or apostle, He gives them knowledge they could have gotten otherwise. God was exposing Joyner and Wagner and the rest as fakes with whom He has nothing to do with.

(First of all, it was not known that he was adulterous and unrepentant when they laid hands on him).

Also, They may have learned from church history from situations where people have been condemned by the authority of the church and have gone on to do a lot of damage claiming they were being persecuted. Cults are formed that way. This was a stickier situation than you are aware of.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Perhaps it isn't the perfect analogy. However it is intended to illustrate Romans 7:7-13. (Although, in thinking about it further, the essence of the wet paint sign is that it is saying, "Do not sit on the bench." So people test to see if the paint is still wet so they can violate the essence of what the sign is saying in spite of the fact that it is there telling them not to do it).

Public benches are there to sit on. That people want to do so is normal.

The concept of being forgiven of past, present, and future sin is not for an unbelieving community, it is for the born again believer, whose heart is changed so that he or she has a hatred of sin. The devil will try to heap condemnation on you if because of human weakness you aren't able to be victorious over something in particular that is a besetting sin in your life.

So if your heart is so changed how come you admitted that you responded wrongly to me? Heart not changed yet? Changed back? Doesn’t matter anyway cause you’re already forgiven? Your theory doesn’t work in real life.

A community of born again believers would not find crime accelerating because the Holy Spirit is in them as a restraint concerning sin: they are born again, they are new creatures in Christ, therefore they cannot sin (however you will interpret that statement in 1 John 3:9).

So no one in your church ever sins? Is that right. All come from church rejoicing that they are 100% perfect like Jesus?

This is the first time you've told me that. And if you're hearing voices, that very likely warrants mental health treatment.

His sheep know his voice....(Its powerful and sweet by the way.)

He said we’re done for the night. He also told me that talking to
you will not be able to break
through the armor you’ve built up around your thinking.

I see why. You want the peace of believing all your sins are already forgiven in case you sin as you are afraid of falling away. Rather than seek Him and learn from him, you’ve embraced a theology that calms that fear meeting the need yourself. It’s like the man who reads his marriage license each day to assure himself his marriage is secure rather than talk to him wife.

 

[justbyfaith]

So no one in your church ever sins? Is that right. All come from church rejoicing that they are 100% perfect like Jesus?

I didn't say that. I said that the statement in 1 John 3:9 is subject to interpretation.

His sheep know his voice....(Its powerful and sweet by the way.)

He said we’re done for the night. He also told me that talking to
you will not be able to break
through the armor you’ve built up around your thinking.

I see why. You want the peace of believing all your sins are already forgiven in case you sin as you are afraid of falling away. Rather than seek Him and learn from him, you’ve embraced a theology that calms that fear meeting the need yourself. It’s like the man who reads his marriage license each day to assure himself his marriage is secure rather than talk to him wife.

My prayer of repentance included Psalms 51:3 and I received understanding about what I had prayed in Luke 18:9-14. These passages go together.

I suggest you pray it also as it is a biblical prayer (but I don't think you will because it would disturb your theology).

What you're hearing may not be the voice of Jesus (just as you think the presbytery that laid hands on me may have been false prophets: it is all very subjective and based on whether one person wants to believe the other or not)...He primarily speaks to us through His word, not a voice of words. And I sincerely doubt that it is Him speaking to you because you are more inclined to reject what His word says to you than to receive it.

 

[justbyfaith]

As I prayed (before your last post) that you would not give up on this conversation but persevere until the Lord can break through to you, there was opposition (spiritual warfare) in that the radio went from the Christian music that it was playing to a commercial (talking). And then there was a ton of talking (the devil didn't want me to pray for you with the added power of spiritual anointed music before the Lord). Finally, the song came on (after some prayer without the music), and the song that came on was appropo, with the words, "He that is in me is greater than he that is in the world."

This will be a testimony for you in the long run.

I am going to continue to pray for you. A big part of this prayer is that you won't be subjected to the mental health system unless it is absolutely necessary.

 

[justbyfaith]

Public benches are there to sit on. That people want to do so is normal.

Like I said, it isn't the perfect analogy. Perhaps I should have called it the "forbidden fruit" principle from the beginning; but that has a certain connotation in today's culture.

I suggest ignoring the wording of the term that I coined for the principle and begin to focus on the principle itself; as it is found in Romans 7:7-13.

 

[justbyfaith]

So if your heart is so changed how come you admitted that you responded wrongly to me? Heart not changed yet? Changed back? Doesn’t matter anyway cause you’re already forgiven? Your theory doesn’t work in real life.

I'm not claiming to be perfect; what I am saying is that the Lord has done a work in me so that I have a hatred of sin and a love of righteousness. That is all.

 

[justbyfaith]

btw, where I am located in California, it was 12:13 pm (in the afternoon) when you said that Jesus told you we were done for the night. Now your profile says you are somewhere in the United States, and the other side of the United States is only three hours difference so the latest it can be where you are could have only been 3:00 pm; the earliest (Hawaii) it would still be probably early or late morning.

Are you sure it was Jesus and that that spirit was telling you the truth in telling you that it was nighttime? Did you even take a look outside to check if that was reality what it was saying to you?

It is impossible for God to lie (Hebrews 6:16 and Titus 1:2). Be careful that you aren't listening to a seducing/deceiving spirit as Paul predicted would happen to some in 1 Timothy 4:1.

 

[justbyfaith]

It is against the rules to do any deliverance on these forums and that is very unfortunate. But I will be praying for you from where I am. You can go to the chaplain here for that type of ministry or maybe talk to the pastor of your church.

 

[dreadnought]

If we don’t believe then He CANT do some things for us either. That is then our problem.

The Lord shows us the way. If we follow, everything is okay.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The Lord shows us the way. If we follow, everything is okay.

If we don’t ask for the way, we won’t be shown. Those who ask, receive. It’s not automatic.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

btw, where I am located in California, it was 12:13 pm (in the afternoon) when you said that Jesus told you we were done for the night. Now your profile says you are somewhere in the United States, and the other side of the United States is only three hours difference so the latest it can be where you are could have only been 3:00 pm; the earliest (Hawaii) it would still be probably early or late morning.

Are you sure it was Jesus and that that spirit was telling you the truth in telling you that it was nighttime? Did you even take a look outside to check if that was reality what it was saying to you?

It is impossible for God to lie (Hebrews 6:16 and Titus 1:2). Be careful that you aren't listening to a seducing/deceiving spirit as Paul predicted would happen to some in 1 Timothy 4:1.

I'm not claiming to be perfect; what I am saying is that the Lord has done a work in me so that I have a hatred of sin and a love of righteousness. That is all.

Im trying to figure out how to change that. I don’t where it got Anaheim from although I lived near there for many years. i live in Europe.

Figured it out. I live in Europe.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

It is against the rules to do any deliverance on these forums and that is very unfortunate. But I will be praying for you from where I am. You can go to the chaplain here for that type of ministry or maybe talk to the pastor of your church.

They said Jesus had a demon too. Also thought he was mentally ill and tried to quietly take him away as I recall. This can be the case for whose who want to know him, know the power of his resurrection and will be privileged to know a different fellowship in shared suffering.

The first time I tasted this was when a dear sister whom I was disagreeing with on Calvinism asked me if I was drunk. I still remember the deep hurt. Then Jesus to me, “they said I was drunk too” and we shared the suffering together. Words cannot express what it is to share that level of personal fellowship with Him in those moments.

 

[justbyfaith]

Im trying to figure out how to change that. I don’t where it got Anaheim from although I lived near there for many years. i live in Europe.

Then that voice in your head should have told you never to put that in your profile. Jesus isn't about lying; that would have been one of the first things He might've brought to your attention.

Because your profile says that you live in the United States.

 

[justbyfaith]

They said Jesus had a demon too.

Jesus didn't have a demon, because He was the Son of God; but you might. Certain things about the voice that you are hearing are inconsistent with the nature of the real Jesus.

 

[justbyfaith]

Also thought he was mentally ill and tried to quietly take him away as I recall. This can be the case for whose who want to know him, know the power of his resurrection and will be privileged to know a different fellowship in shared suffering.

The first time I tasted this was when a dear sister whom I was disagreeing with on Calvinism asked me if I was drunk. I still remember the deep hurt. Then Jesus to me, “they said I was drunk too” and we shared the suffering together. Words cannot express what it is to share that level of personal fellowship with Him in those moments.

I have also experienced the fellowship of His sufferings.

However, sometimes when we suffer, it is not because we are in the right (see 1 Peter 2:20).

It is our tendency to want to believe that when we are disparaged, it is because the other person is persecuting us for righteousness' sake. However this is not always the case.

If the voice in your mind were really Jesus, I don't think you would have such a critical spirit.

Faithful are the wounds of a friend. I say these things out of care and concern for you.

 

[dreadnought]

If we don’t ask for the way, we won’t be shown. Those who ask, receive. It’s not automatic.

The Lord is not a machine. He loves us. He shows us the way. We can choose to follow, or not.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The Lord is not a machine. He loves us. He shows us the way. We can choose to follow, or not.

He loves all those in hell too. Jesus loved the rich young ruler too. He was answering a question from the young man. He wasn’t showing him the way otherwise. Those who ask receive. If we don’t ask, He doesn’t show us the way although He loves us. Loving us doesn’t change his standards. Thems that asks is thems that get answers.