Can a Shaman also be a Christian?

[Robban]

I am not sure just who you are accusing of being losers. That being said we must remember that the Christian scriptures are first and early second century documents and in that context it was believed that almost all disease was demonic in nature. Today we know the names of the demons --- they are called germs, viruses, chemical imbalances, genetic defects, etc.

You may be having a bad day, I do not know,

but read what I wrote again, maybe you will see you have got the wrong end of the stick.

Nevertheless, if someone is cured or healed or relieved from a from a burden
it is a glad happening for that person, whichever way it happened.

But I do not know one way or the other, I have another view.

 

[Hearingheart]

I am not sure just who you are accusing of being losers. That being said we must remember that the Christian scriptures are first and early second century documents and in that context it was believed that almost all disease was demonic in nature. Today we know the names of the demons --- they are called germs, viruses, chemical imbalances, genetic defects, etc.

But Shamans would see disease that same way early Christians would, as malevolent spirits causing the illness and the bible doesn't explain if healings also included medicinal herb use.

 

[Tolworth John]

Yes, I've read Acts. What exactly was in the scrolls and what was their practice? The bible doesn't tell us specifics. I would suspect their worship was to other gods. A shaman does not necessarily worship gods.
My understanding is that a shaman is a vessel that works with the natural world and the spiritual realms to heal people. We, as Christians, don't worship angels, however, they can be used for our benefit.
I would like the perspective of people who actually know what shaman's are and how they operate.

They as it says were scrolls of magic.
The pribcipal taught here is that everything except the worship/service of Jesus is permitted.
A shaman who became a Christian would stop seeking the spiritual realm as he has a relationship with Jesus. Rather than seek spirits to heal etc he would along with other Christians pray to God.
He has no need to seek that which has come to live in him.

 

[AservantofGodandthelordJC]

The main reason I'm not a Christian is because they adopted many of Paul's teachings, I however know that James The Just was correct. Paul's teachings were easier to accept, it allows you to 'be ok' with sinning.

 

[AV1611VET]

Paul's teachings were easier to accept, it allows you to 'be ok' with sinning.

Really?

I always thought your "okays" changed when you got saved.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Really?

I always thought your "okays" changed when you got saved.

If that were true, we might expect to see a tangible, measurable difference between Christian and Non-Christian communities. Alas, nothing of the sort can be observed: Christians are neither better nor worse in terms of morality than anybody else.

 

[AV1611VET]

Christians are neither better nor worse in terms of morality than anybody else.

I don't believe that one bit.

But let's say, for the sake of argument, that was true.

In that case there is a big difference:

Christians would be no different in spite of the Bible, not with respect to It.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Yeah ,to a certain degree , I would grant you as much:
Jesus says "love your enemies, turn the other cheek" - and the Christian Right worship the military and hawkish politicians.
Jesus says all men are brothers - and the Christian Right wrap themselves in flags and embrace jingoism.
Jesus says forsake your money, help the poor and heal the sick - and the Christian Right venerate an adulterous billionaire con man who promotes a radical dog-eat-dog capitalism and takes away people''s health care and social welfare.
Jesus says "I was poor and a refugee... What you have done to the least of them, you have done to me." And the Christian Right applaud when children are separated from their parents and locked up in camps.

 

[AV1611VET]

Jesus says ...

Jesus says ...

Jesus says ...

Jesus says ...

Do you believe everything Jesus says?

 

[Zoness]

Do you believe everything Jesus says?

I think it matters more that Christians believe what Jesus says, considering how much political power they wield. In the current political era, I've not found Christian morality to be all that impressive, relative to the rest of the population.

Though I'm still not sure how relevant your question is to Jane's observation.

 

[AV1611VET]

I think it matters more that Christians believe what Jesus says, considering how much political power they wield.

Well Christians say "love thine enemy," which means it would be against our beliefs to fly a plane into a crowded building.

Just where do you draw the line in what Christians should believe and what Pagans should believe?

For example, it's against Christian belief to even think of casting a spell on someone because they burned down Joe's house with his family in it, and are now coming after him.

What say you?

 

[JackRT]

Jesus says "love your enemies, turn the other cheek"

There is no verse in the Bible that records this. Jesus does say that we should love each other. Elsewhere he says to turn the other cheek but for a different reason than most Christians realize.

 

[dlamberth]

Well Christians say "love thine enemy," which means it would be against our beliefs to fly a plane into a crowded building.

In the same breath, it's not against Christian beliefs to drop bombs into crowded schools, markets and buildings.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

There is no verse in the Bible that records this. Jesus does say that we should love each other. Elsewhere he says to turn the other cheek but for a different reason than most Christians realize.

Matthew 5, 43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

The "other cheek" is indeed even more clever than most people give it credit for. The first slap he describes (on the right cheek) would be a backhanded slap, a gesture of contempt signifying that the slapped party is inferior. To then present the other cheek is a gesture that defies the intent of the first, asking for a (more egalitarian) slap.
Still, it's pretty clear that if we are to believe the gospels, Jesus did NOT approve of violence against people, in spite of telling the disciples to buy swords at one point and announcing that he'd sow discord between parents and children even.

 

[Zoness]

Well Christians say "love thine enemy," which means it would be against our beliefs to fly a plane into a crowded building.

Ah but it may not be against your beliefs to restrict the freedom of others, or to launch military campaigns with religious motives, if we're going to cherry pick random examples, which I think is fruitless.

Just where do you draw the line in what Christians should believe and what Pagans should believe?

For example, it's against Christian belief to even think of casting a spell on someone because they burned down Joe's house with his family in it, and are now coming after him.

What say you?

I'm not sure I understand the phrasing of your question, is this a question about employing ethics? Christianity, as a religion, has a ethical framework it expects its followers to apply. Paganism, as an umbrella for many religions, has a series of possible ethical frameworks as well that people commit to. Of course, they can be quite radically different. I mostly derive my ethics from a secular humanist school of thought, and not from my religion. Though my religion has influenced my stewardship of nature and the environment maybe higher than it would otherwise be. I am very connected to those issues as a result. My religion influences ethics, but I derive mine from elsewhere, which is fine in paganism as there's no central set of rules.

Though many pagans in the Western world agree on some variation of the Wiccan Rede, That it harm none, do as thou wilt.

 

[AservantofGodandthelordJC]

Really?

I always thought your "okays" changed when you got saved.

Yes that was Paul's teachings, James The Just taught that it is your own personal responsibility, which it is.. people don't like the idea of things not being done for them automatically, so they followed the more convenient belief instead of the relevant one.. Remember James The Just died a martyr for this.

 

[AV1611VET]

Elsewhere he says to turn the other cheek but for a different reason than most Christians realize.

Yes -- to deliver a spilling back kick upside the head.

 

[AV1611VET]

In the same breath, it's not against Christian beliefs to drop bombs into crowded schools, markets and buildings.

I beg your pardon?

 

[AV1611VET]

I'm not sure I understand the phrasing of your question, is this a question about employing ethics? Christianity, as a religion, has a ethical framework it expects its followers to apply. Paganism, as an umbrella for many religions, has a series of possible ethical frameworks as well that people commit to. Of course, they can be quite radically different. I mostly derive my ethics from a secular humanist school of thought, and not from my religion. Though my religion has influenced my stewardship of nature and the environment maybe higher than it would otherwise be. I am very connected to those issues as a result. My religion influences ethics, but I derive mine from elsewhere, which is fine in paganism as there's no central set of rules.

Though many pagans in the Western world agree on some variation of the Wiccan Rede, That it harm none, do as thou wilt.

 

[AV1611VET]

Remember James The Just died a martyr for this.

I'm not so sure James would approve of being called "James the Just."

James 1:1a James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,

My Catholic mother-in-law balks when I call myself a "saint."