Can a Shaman also be a Christian?

[AV1611VET]

I'm not sure you can convert to the occult,

They'll do it for you.

 

[Albion]

Hay...I'm not an unknown to myself. And I personally know and know of Shamans who are also Christian.

I don't doubt that they call themselves "Christian" and probably believe it. But I don't think that was what the OP was asking about.

 

[dlamberth]

What do YOU call Him?

My friend.

 

[AV1611VET]

My friend.

I've got friends too; and I know their names.

 

[dlamberth]

I've got friends too; and I know their names.

We have much in common than.

 

[JoeP222w]

I would like to discuss if someone who believes in God and accepts Jesus Christ could also practice shamanic healing. Don't know if this is against the rule, so if it is, please remove it.

I have seen people be physically and emotionally healed by both Shaman's as well as Christians. I have seen Shaman's exhibit the fruits of the spirit as well as Christians. Is it possible that God reaches people whatever their understanding and culture?

Matthew 6:24 “No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.

Shamanism teaches that which is antithetical to the Bible. It is demonic and idolatrous.

 

[JackRT]

Maybe 20 years ago it was noticed that Canadian Indian and Inuit peoples did very poorly when that had to undergo hospital treatment. This prompted the hospitals to accredit shamans to the medical care teams. The improvement in recovery rates was quite dramatic. I do not believe there is anything demonic involved but there certainly is a powerful ethnic/cultural influence involved. In almost all cases both the shaman and the patient are Christian.

 

[Zoness]

They'll do it for you.

"No appointments needed. Conversions while you wait!"

I should get that sign for my place.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I would like to discuss if someone who believes in God and accepts Jesus Christ could also practice shamanic healing. Don't know if this is against the rule, so if it is, please remove it.

I have seen people be physically and emotionally healed by both Shaman's as well as Christians. I have seen Shaman's exhibit the fruits of the spirit as well as Christians. Is it possible that God reaches people whatever their understanding and culture?

Christianity is, on principle, opposed to the idea that there is some kind of "power" that we can tap into to manipulate the world around us, such as magic or psychic or in this case shamanism.

I'm quite skeptical when I heard of wonders supposedly being done by other Christians, so I am even more skeptical of such claims otherwise. I'm not against God being able to work wonders as He so wills it, but there's good reason to be skeptical about claims, especially when much of what happens is often charlatanism, hearsay, or simply nothing at all.

An example of what I mean: If you were to go on Youtube and look up miraculous leg lengthening you will find videos of self-claimed faith healers going around and supposedly straightening legs of strangers on the street, and you'll even see that some of these people claim that they are now free of pain. So God straightened their legs and healed them, or these faith healers have miraculous power right? Well, no. This is nothing more than stage magic coupled with a mild placebo effect. Nobody's leg is being lengthened in these videos, it's purely an illusion which anyone can learn how to do with some practice, and since pain is in our heads anyway it is possible for the mind to dull the sense of pain--at least long enough for it to be recorded and give the impression of healing. But if these people have real physical ailments that cause them chronic pain, since nothing actually happened that pain will return because the physical ailment is still present.

If people legitimately have a gift for healing, that is, God is using them to actually bring real supernatural healing, then why isn't such a person using that wonderful gift to deliver sight to the blind, hearing to the deaf, making the crippled walk--you know, the things we see the Lord Himself doing in the Gospels. The Lord went to where the sick and hurting were, He went to them, and brought healing to them.

The reason we don't see self-claimed spiritual healers (of any kind) actually going to where the sick and hurting are and alleviate real suffering is because it's not happening. Or if it is happening it's not happening in any visible way. So it is absolutely justified to be skeptical. I believe God can heal the sick, I believe Jesus did make the blind see, make the lame to walk, and brought the dead to life--and I believe God can do that today. But I should be skeptical of when I hear about these things, because what I do observe around me are a lot of frauds, hucksters, scam artists, and snake oil salesmen using promises of healing and health to abuse those who are already suffering.

I would rather someone simply go and visit the sick, and fight for adequate medical care for those who are lacking it, then to showboat and compound suffering with suffering. At least by showing kindness and fighting on the side of justice one is actually accomplishing something of some good in the world, and that is of God.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[dlamberth]

Christianity is, on principle, opposed to the idea that there is some kind of "power" that we can tap into to manipulate the world around us, such as magic or psychic or in this case shamanism.

I hear everything your saying. But if a person were coming from an indigenous culture where the spirit world is very much alive and vibrant in everything a person touches and sees, it's a much different world a person is walking through than what we in the West know and experience. And I think in a lot of way's that's where we in the West are not understanding the ways of the Shaman OR the indigenous cultures for that matter. In a lot of ways it's become my impression that we in the West are pretty much spiritually dead in comparison to the indigenous cultures. We know how to believe really hard, but the breath of our spiritual awareness that's been a part of our Human history back when our ancestors were also an indigenous people has been all but lost. So we call what we no longer understand "magic" or "psychic". I think that loss of spiritual awareness is quite sad actually.

 

[Hearingheart]

Shamanism
Excerpt:
Shamanistic medicine includes the application of animistic and various ancient witchcraft techniques to health care. It may involve either shamanism itself as a means to health and enlightenment (shaman initiation and following the shaman’s "life path"), or the varied use of specific shamanistic techniques in conjunction with a particular health program (e.g., visualization, altered states of consciousness, dream work, or the use of "power animals," which are spirits that appear in the form of animals, birds, or other creatures in order to instruct the shaman).

Major problems. Shamanism leads to spirit possession and other forms of occult bondage. For example, in shamanistic healing the acquiring of true health demands both the practitioner and patient to be "energized" by his or her "power animal," or spirit guide. Possession by one or more spirits for empowerment, enlightenment, personal health maintenance, and healing abilities is fundamental.

Potential dangers. Temporary insanity, demon possession, and tremendous physical suffering are some of the effects. Those treated with shamanistic techniques or methods may become converted to the occult.

Biblical/Christian evaluation. Shamanistic practices involve pagan methods and beliefs that are forbidden (Exodus 20:5-4; Deuteronomy 18:9-12).

Ahh, yes, the usual bias and fear...lots of fear. Glad you're having "fun" with the topic.

 

[Hearingheart]

Christianity is, on principle, opposed to the idea that there is some kind of "power" that we can tap into to manipulate the world around us, such as magic or psychic or in this case shamanism.

I'm quite skeptical when I heard of wonders supposedly being done by other Christians, so I am even more skeptical of such claims otherwise. I'm not against God being able to work wonders as He so wills it, but there's good reason to be skeptical about claims, especially when much of what happens is often charlatanism, hearsay, or simply nothing at all.

An example of what I mean: If you were to go on Youtube and look up miraculous leg lengthening you will find videos of self-claimed faith healers going around and supposedly straightening legs of strangers on the street, and you'll even see that some of these people claim that they are now free of pain. So God straightened their legs and healed them, or these faith healers have miraculous power right? Well, no. This is nothing more than stage magic coupled with a mild placebo effect. Nobody's leg is being lengthened in these videos, it's purely an illusion which anyone can learn how to do with some practice, and since pain is in our heads anyway it is possible for the mind to dull the sense of pain--at least long enough for it to be recorded and give the impression of healing. But if these people have real physical ailments that cause them chronic pain, since nothing actually happened that pain will return because the physical ailment is still present.

If people legitimately have a gift for healing, that is, God is using them to actually bring real supernatural healing, then why isn't such a person using that wonderful gift to deliver sight to the blind, hearing to the deaf, making the crippled walk--you know, the things we see the Lord Himself doing in the Gospels. The Lord went to where the sick and hurting were, He went to them, and brought healing to them.

The reason we don't see self-claimed spiritual healers (of any kind) actually going to where the sick and hurting are and alleviate real suffering is because it's not happening. Or if it is happening it's not happening in any visible way. So it is absolutely justified to be skeptical. I believe God can heal the sick, I believe Jesus did make the blind see, make the lame to walk, and brought the dead to life--and I believe God can do that today. But I should be skeptical of when I hear about these things, because what I do observe around me are a lot of frauds, hucksters, scam artists, and snake oil salesmen using promises of healing and health to abuse those who are already suffering.

I would rather someone simply go and visit the sick, and fight for adequate medical care for those who are lacking it, then to showboat and compound suffering with suffering. At least by showing kindness and fighting on the side of justice one is actually accomplishing something of some good in the world, and that is of God.

-CryptoLutheran

Well, I've known people that have actually been healed after being clinically diagnosed and having test results to prove it. I wish I knew why not all those who suffer are healed, but I do know that God uses people to heal others.

 

[brinny]

Ahh, yes, the usual bias and fear...lots of fear. Glad you're having "fun" with the topic.

You might want to address El Elyon, God Most High about that.

He already said HIMSELF how He views divination and the occult.

Your argument is with HIM, not with me.

 

[Hearingheart]

I hear everything your saying. But if a person were coming from an indigenous culture where the spirit world is very much alive and vibrant in everything a person touches and sees, it's a much different world a person is walking through than what we in the West know and experience. And I think in a lot of way's that's where we in the West are not understanding the ways of the Shaman OR the indigenous cultures for that matter. In a lot of ways it's become my impression that we in the West are pretty much spiritually dead in comparison to the indigenous cultures. We know how to believe really hard, but the breath of our spiritual awareness that's been a part of our Human history back when our ancestors were also an indigenous people has been all but lost. So we call what we no longer understand "magic" or "psychic". I think that loss of spiritual awareness is quite sad actually.

You get it.

I know of a few who are healers (shamans) and they claim to worship God (one God). The results are the same and they're lives exhibit a lifestyle that is Christ-like. Is it possible for them to accept Christ and still work as healers, like a hollow bone as it were, like a channel.

I think you are correct, though. In the west we really don't understand the culture where shamanism is practiced.

I'm coming from a Christian perspective and would appreciate other Christians to leave the mocking and bible thumping on the sidelines. I pretty much know what the believer's answers would be. I'm interested in a different perspective.

 

[brinny]

Ahh, yes, the usual bias and fear...lots of fear. Glad you're having "fun" with the topic.

By the way, are you referring to my comment on the previous page? I was referring to seeing a couple of members i had not seen in a while and was enjoying friendly banter with, back and forth.

On the contrary, i'm not having fun with the "topic". The living God is quite serious about it, as am i.

These verses comes to mind, brother in Christ and beloved son of the Most High God:

"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" ~Isaiah 5:20

"He, that being often reproved hardeneth his neck, shall suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy." ~Proverbs 29:1

 

[Hearingheart]

From what I understand, the healer (shaman) uses techniques to tap into an altered state (theta brain waves). What they do is not secret knowledge nor does it tell the future. I don't see divination and occult in what they do.

It's interesting that they knew to use theta brain waves way before medical science understood them.

 

[JackRT]

Christianity is, on principle, opposed to the idea that there is some kind of "power" that we can tap into to manipulate the world around us, such as magic or psychic or in this case shamanism.

I'm quite skeptical when I heard of wonders supposedly being done by other Christians, so I am even more skeptical of such claims otherwise. I'm not against God being able to work wonders as He so wills it, but there's good reason to be skeptical about claims, especially when much of what happens is often charlatanism, hearsay, or simply nothing at all.

An example of what I mean: If you were to go on Youtube and look up miraculous leg lengthening you will find videos of self-claimed faith healers going around and supposedly straightening legs of strangers on the street, and you'll even see that some of these people claim that they are now free of pain. So God straightened their legs and healed them, or these faith healers have miraculous power right? Well, no. This is nothing more than stage magic coupled with a mild placebo effect. Nobody's leg is being lengthened in these videos, it's purely an illusion which anyone can learn how to do with some practice, and since pain is in our heads anyway it is possible for the mind to dull the sense of pain--at least long enough for it to be recorded and give the impression of healing. But if these people have real physical ailments that cause them chronic pain, since nothing actually happened that pain will return because the physical ailment is still present.

If people legitimately have a gift for healing, that is, God is using them to actually bring real supernatural healing, then why isn't such a person using that wonderful gift to deliver sight to the blind, hearing to the deaf, making the crippled walk--you know, the things we see the Lord Himself doing in the Gospels. The Lord went to where the sick and hurting were, He went to them, and brought healing to them.

The reason we don't see self-claimed spiritual healers (of any kind) actually going to where the sick and hurting are and alleviate real suffering is because it's not happening. Or if it is happening it's not happening in any visible way. So it is absolutely justified to be skeptical. I believe God can heal the sick, I believe Jesus did make the blind see, make the lame to walk, and brought the dead to life--and I believe God can do that today. But I should be skeptical of when I hear about these things, because what I do observe around me are a lot of frauds, hucksters, scam artists, and snake oil salesmen using promises of healing and health to abuse those who are already suffering.

I would rather someone simply go and visit the sick, and fight for adequate medical care for those who are lacking it, then to showboat and compound suffering with suffering. At least by showing kindness and fighting on the side of justice one is actually accomplishing something of some good in the world, and that is of God.

-CryptoLutheran

Some scientific/medical studies have found that a great many of those "cured" in faith healings reverted to their original condition or worse within a matter of days to weeks. In almost every case these people had discontinued their medications and/or therapies. These studies attributed this to the placebo effect and/or some form of hysteria induced by the service.

 

[JackRT]

It's interesting that they knew to use theta brain waves way before medical science understood them.

The use of "natural remedies" likely goes back tens of thousands of years and have only recently been rediscovered by modern medicine. Today we are finding new therapies in exploring the mind-body connection traditionally used in oriental medicine. There are those that go all freaky about this and try to call it demonic. I say let's explore it scientifically and see if it is useful. The true test of science and medicine is "does it work?"

 

[Robban]

The use of "natural remedies" likely goes back tens of thousands of years and have only recently been rediscovered by modern medicine. Today we are finding new therapies in exploring the mind-body connection traditionally used in oriental medicine. There are those that go all freaky about this and try to call it demonic. I say let's explore it scientifically and see if it is useful. The true test of science and medicine is "does it work?"

I am sure there is something written somewhere,

where Jesus was accused of driving out demons with the help demonic forces,
or something like that.

Really nothing new, in other areas too.

You see them standing there with their arms folded, scowling,

"Just who does he think he is?",

Yeah, it is pretty common,

It is common for losers to act so.

 

[JackRT]

I am sure there is something written somewhere,

where Jesus was accused of driving out demons with the help demonic forces,
or something like that.

Really nothing new, in other areas too.

You see them standing there with their arms folded, scowling,

"Just who does he think he is?",

Yeah, it is pretty common,

It is common for losers to act so.

I am not sure just who you are accusing of being losers. That being said we must remember that the Christian scriptures are first and early second century documents and in that context it was believed that almost all disease was demonic in nature. Today we know the names of the demons --- they are called germs, viruses, chemical imbalances, genetic defects, etc.