I thought I had them at the flood, but...

[joshua 1 9]

I believe that God has placed evidence of such things in the Earth and we are meant to find it.

In addition to the evidence He provides for us. He created in a way so we could understand. "By wisdom the LORD laid the earth's foundations, by understanding he set the heavens in place;" Proverbs 3:19 God is a singularity yet Heaven and Earth share a duel nature. We are told that the Earth is to be a reflection of the Heavenly. Wisdom here on earth is like understanding in Heaven.

 

[Valetic]

sea shells in "strange places", like on mountain tops has been explained by the uplifting of the earth due to tectonic plate movement.

They aren't just found on mountain tops either.. Theyre found in deserts and flat places also..

You can go across the world and find the same rock layers in order in the column as well as fossils...

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

I thought you got coal from mining caves thought it was like pressure from rocks and carbon or something?

It's plant material buried sometimes miles deep by sediment that pressure and heat from the sediment turned to coal. Like I said everything you can imagine can be found mixed in that coal. All kinds of plants and lots and lots of reports of human artifacts. Back in the say advertised by the Smithsonian and other world renowned museums but since their takeover by militant secularists. Suppressed. Another factor is that today in the west most mining is done by machines not by hand so everything is gobbled up. A human eye doesn't get to see what they are digging through anymore.

 

[Valetic]

It's plant material buried sometimes miles deep by sediment that pressure and heat from the sediment turned to coal. Like I said everything you can imagine can be found mixed in that coal. All kinds of plants and lots and lots of reports of human artifacts. Back in the say advertised by the Smithsonian and other world renowned museums but since their takeover by militant secularists. Suppressed. Another factor is that today in the west most mining is done by machines not by hand so everything is gobbled up. A human eye doesn't get to see what they are digging through anymore.

Oh yeah that makes sense! I remember watching a seminar of iron pots found in coal and some sort of pic or axe in some too. Now that's astonishing.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Oh yeah that makes sense! I remember watching a seminar of iron pots found in coal and some sort of pic or axe in some too. Now that's astonishing.

One of my favorite things to use in arguing about the world wide flood is the approx 30 million Woolly Mammoths, Rhinoceroses and other mammals buried in the permafrost in Siberia. How on earth do bury a whole continent's worth of animals in mud but a giant world wide flood? (Oh a giant asteroid!!!) Yeah right. Anything to avoid the obvious. For a hundred years secular scientists said there has never been a catastrophic world wide event that caused the mass extinction of animals. Then a few decades ago, all of a sudden catastrophicsim is all in vogue in the tabloid science world. Just as long as it is any catastrophic event that does not include a world wide flood that is.
Anyway, let me get off my podium and back to the subject. In the early part of the last century they mined 20,000 Woolly Mammoth tusks out of one mine alone.
Here is a more modern article I had read on the subject. It claims 150 million Mammoths but it is referring to the modern ivory trade and how it is hoped Woolly Mammoth Ivory will satisfy the markets demands for illegal ivory.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...-50-000-save-threatened-African-elephant.html

 

[joshua 1 9]

I'm sorry I just don't interpret the bible as saying anything about the earth being more than 10k years old.

Because the Bible is a history of the last 6,000 years. They call this written history. So we are talking about Genesis chapter one. Gerald Schroeder PhD MIT in Physics says that there are over 200,000 books in the Harvard library that explains the first 31 verses in the Bible. Yet we know that the age we live in began around 12,980 years ago. Because Peter and Moses tells us that 1,000 years is a day. This is why the KJV people use the word replenish. There was something here before that needed replenished. Because the earth was formless and void, basically in a state of ruin. Yet the OEC people find a different meaning for when the Earth itself was first formed. Both YEC and OEC are accurate in their understanding. Even if their understanding and interpretation of the exact same verse is different because the Bible has many layers of meaning.

God is infinite. All the books in the would could not even begin to explain the meaning of the word "beginning". Because God knows the end from the beginning. Isaiah 46 "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my." We are told: "He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him." (Eph 1:4) How could God chose us to be holy and blameless in Him before there was even a world? David tells us (139:15 psalm) "all my days were written in Your book and ordained for me before one of them came to be." How could God write a book about every day of our life before we were even born?

In Isaiah 24:1 we read: "See, the LORD is going to lay waste the earth and devastate it; he will ruin its face and scatter its inhabitants--" God can tear down and build up. He can begin whenever and where ever He wants a new beginning. Jesus is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. God has no beginning but there are lots and lots of new beginnings here on the Earth. So I would not limit God in what HE can do and in what HE has done. Far to often we limit God and we do not take full advantage of all that HE wants and has for us.

We can see a parallel between the first 6000 years and the second 6,000 years. Just like we can look at day seven and see the 1,000 year reign of Christ contained within that day. Just as God rested for a day after He created the Earth we shall enter into 1,000 years when we shall rest from our works.

 

[bcbsr]

Once the continents were joined. People looking at maps noticed the coast of South America and the coast of Africa fit together like puzzle pieces. Geologists found similarities between rock formations on both coasts. They theorized the two continents started to break apart about 140 million years ago.
A 20 second YouTube video illustrates this:

That's 140million years ago, not 6000 years ago, which is what Adam existed.

 

[bcbsr]

They aren't just found on mountain tops either.. Theyre found in deserts and flat places also..

You can go across the world and find the same rock layers in order in the column as well as fossils...

Not surprising for sea shells to be found at low elevations, given that they're found at high elevations.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Oh yeah that makes sense! I remember watching a seminar of iron pots found in coal and some sort of pic or axe in some too. Now that's astonishing.

I would like to see that. There was a lot of hoaxing going on in the 18th century when these anamolies were found. It was nearly a pass time.

 

[Valetic]

Because Peter and Moses tells us that 1,000 years is a day.

I had to stop right here. This is another debate for another time but this statement has caused a massive divide in origins theories. I am on the other side of it because of the evidence I have to offer. I can respect your origins theories but once you suck this statement into the mix it has become another debate debate for me.

and Moses tells us that 1,000 years is a day.

Where?

Because the earth was formless and void, basically in a state of ruin. Yet the OEC people find a different meaning for when the Earth itself was first formed. Both YEC and OEC are accurate in their understanding. Even if their understanding and interpretation of the exact same verse is different because the Bible has many layers of meaning.

I tend to avoid this too because this means that the bible has secret codes in it if you believe in this kind of stuff and I am not the type to go down that road, especially this theory in specific because it is basically based off of very few and very vague verses.. Sorry but once again the Genesis 1 passage you are referring to is another debate for another time and/or thread. I don't mean to be disrespectful or anything, it's just I am trying to stick to what the evidence of the geologic column reveals in this thread and if there is any other evidence in the geologic column that can point either direction of young earth or old earth. Thanks!

 

[Valetic]

Not surprising for sea shells to be found at low elevations, given that they're found at high elevations.

Especially if there was a global flood?

 

[Valetic]

I would like to see that. There was a lot of hoaxing going on in the 18th century when these anamolies were found. It was nearly a pass time.

just do some googling on artifacts found in coal

 

[bcbsr]

Especially if there was a global flood?

Or not

 

[Valetic]

Or not

How?

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

I would like to see that. There was a lot of hoaxing going on in the 18th century when these anamolies were found. It was nearly a pass time.

Yep, on both sides. Continues to this day.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Yep, on both sides. Continues to this day.

If you are referring to the Piltdown hoax, it was scientists who found out it was a hoax, not creationists. Most common elements in these anomalous archaeological finds is that the artifact has been removed from its purported location, where it was found (in situ.) There is no way to establish context. Many of these 'artifacts' disappear when the finder is challenged.

 

[gideon123]

OP

ok .... timeout. stop.

Just because you abandon the idea of the 'Young Earth Theory' ... this does not invalidate God. And it does not - not in any way undermine Genesis.

It just means you need to re-arrange the thoughts inside your own head. Nothing more than that. There is no 'great earthquake' and Genesis does not become 'a myth'. Nobody said it was a myth. You just need to EXPAND your point of view.

I am happy that you are reading your geology textbooks, though. That's very encouraging.

Please search my posts on other threads about similar topics.

Best Wishes and Blessings!!

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

If you are referring to the Piltdown hoax, it was scientists who found out it was a hoax, not creationists. Most common elements in these anomalous archaeology is that the artifact has been removed from it purported location where it was found (in situ.) There is no way to establish context. Many of these 'artifacts' disappear when the finder is challenged.

There is a huge body of hoaxes both from the scientific and non-scientific community. Much of it political. Don'tr really have the time to get sidetracked on it all right now.

 

[Valetic]

OP

ok .... timeout. stop.

Just because you abandon the idea of the 'Young Earth Theory' ... this does not invalidate God. And it does not - not in any way - undermine Genesis.

It just means you need to re-arrange the thoughts inside your own head. Nothing more than that. There is no 'great earthquake about Genesis being a myth'. Nobody said it was a myth. You just need to EXPAND your point of view.

Please search my posts on other threads about similar topics.

Best Wishes and Blessings!!

I agree sir. I haven't abandoned it altogether. I think after doing more research the geologic column actually is pointing back to a flood YEC worldview for me again. But then again that IS the evidence I've been searching out. I think it's best just to say something like "I don't know for sure but this is what I theorize.."

As I said before, my main goal is to plant the seed of Christ, not convince people of origins. Although it does bring credit back to the bible imo to do that also.

 

[bcbsr]

How?

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CC/CC364.html